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  #1  
Unread 12-01-2007, 05:25 AM
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Traditional vs modern. state your case

I used to frequent another forum.......based on psychological astrology...

Here i am seeing a definite, new amount of information, on traditional astrology.

I dont know what to follow.....i cant study both at once i dont think....

Anybody who would like to state why they prefer one over the other, or perhaps to share some problems with the style not chosen would be great.....all opinions are valid....

And please dont fight....i hate starting threads that turn into war zones.....nobody will be getting any prizes


Last edited by Liquid Green; 12-01-2007 at 07:49 AM.
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Unread 12-01-2007, 07:46 AM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

one thing that has been very confusing for me is the idea that signs rule houses.........a modern "invention" i think.....(aquarius rules the 11th type stuff.)..........on forums to a beginner this starts to get really annoying because, despite the way i look at it, there is always someone batting for the other team that will pipe up and tell me I'm wrong......
For a long time i was just confused by the whole lot......my own research is helping........somewhat
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Unread 12-02-2007, 05:06 AM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

the houses in general have been kinda confusing for me, and i just don't get the 12th at all. something about secrets...

i think that traditional astrology is just as accurate and valid, but you can't ignore new planets and information. The main issue i have is that the outermost planets (ya pluto not a planet... whatever) make so much more sense as the "rulers" of thier respective signs. It's amazing that some astrologers ignore or belittle this, but i can see why they are more comfortable with the time tested approach.

For example, how can Saturn rule Aqua? That's like some kind of astrological oxymoron in my opinion. There are some similarities, but not like Uranus. The others also fit very nicely. I can elaborate, but i think most of you guys agree.

As for which you should study.. well... whichever you fancy more .
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Unread 12-02-2007, 05:51 AM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

thanks pisean fool......I am just finding out your opinions.
I agree with you about the ruler of Aqua.....but with the outer objects, i find it hard to know when to stop.....you can just keep going and going.......I think the planets have served people for a long time...there must be some validity.....with out the lumps of rocks making thinfgs difficult......i just know that lots of people swear by them......
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Unread 12-02-2007, 03:57 PM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

All I can say on that (Saturn vs Aquarius) is that the outer planets - Uranus, Neptune, Pluto - are generational and their locations mean little to your personal makeup, only your overall view of life, which is certainly generational. If I'm looking at a chart and focusing on relationships, say, I'll look at the 5th and 7th house. If the 7th house is in Aquarius, I'll look at Saturn as much as Uranus, because Saturn is a traditional ruler of Aquarius, Uranus is a slow moving generational planet, and Saturn for centuries ruled that sign. It's not an either/or - use both to keep to the deeper meaning of the situation. Same goes for Mars and Scorpio.

Now on that same question, let's say that Saturn was in 3rd house in Aries. I'll certainly focus on how communications in relationships may be severly limited. I personally won't link Mars into the equation, just because Saturn happens to be in Aries. My own opinion is at that point, you are reading too much into it and getting information overload. Other astrologers do, and if it works for them, great. I guess that's where I diverge from other astrologers on sign rulerships.
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Unread 12-02-2007, 08:46 PM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

I agree with mdinaz concerning the Outers. While I would interpret the Inners based on Sign, House, and Aspect, I would not treat the Outers in such a way. Instead, I would only find the House and Aspects (and the only to the Inners) to be useful, so Signs don't matter to the Outers and since they don't, why would they bother to rule them?

Quote:
For example, how can Saturn rule Aqua? That's like some kind of astrological oxymoron in my opinion. There are some similarities, but not like Uranus.
I disagree, in most cases, Uranus has shaped Aquarius to be something it's generally not, so perhaps Aquarius is rather misunderstood.

Quote:
The modern association between Aquarius and Uranus has given this sign an exaggerated reputation for being rebellious, anti-social, perverse, eccentric and emotionally unstable. All of these negative forms of behaviour arise as extreme manifestations in individuals that have yet to find their centre. Anyone who is naturally inclined to care about the interests of social welfare will face their shadow in a world of political frustration where they are confronted with the mirror of their own anger and disappointment. Uranus sits comfortably within the theme of Aquarius in issues of detachment and mental separation, but the intrinsically destructive nature of that planet undermines the fact that Aquarius is regarded as a fortunate sign that rarely offers hostile conditions unless the planets within it are afflicted and heavily debilitated. Whilst some degree of separation from the group is a natural and healthy Aquarian trait, social isolation is not. Primarily this sign works best when supporting well-reasoned theoretical reform rather than violent civil disruption, leaving aggression aside in favour of its polished weapons of diplomacy, logic and tactful gathering of public support.
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Unread 12-02-2007, 08:55 PM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
I agree with mdinaz concerning the Outers. While I would interpret the Inners based on Sign, House, and Aspect, I would not treat the Outers in such a way. Instead, I would only find the House and Aspects (and the only to the Inners) to be useful, so Signs don't matter to the Outers and since they don't, why would they bother to rule them?
I agree, and to expand on that, some have postulated that Uranus is a higher octave of Mercury, and I concur. In times past, the expression of Mercury was highly limited due to the religious and political fervor of the times. In the modern area, with the new emphasis on the "new age", technology, and other themes, Uranus I think very well reflects that. And with that modern age and technology, things have speeded up and people expect more, and more quickly, and again Uranus reflects that. I don't find Uranus any more destructive than say, a hand grenade. Okay, hand grenades are destructive, sure. But in the hands of a soldier who needs to take a bunker on a hill, RIGHT NOW, it's a useful tool and moves things along quickly. I see Uranus the same way. It's a useful tool that moves things along quickly, but will explode in your hand if you act like an idiot.

Don't you guys love my analogies?
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Unread 12-03-2007, 07:24 AM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

I realize what you are saying, and they defintly are representative of the trends. Pluto and Uranus defintly stir things up (scorpio unravelling and aqua innovating). They move very slow, but that does not make them any less valid or personal. People take thier chart and express it in thier own unique way, and 1/12 of ppl (theoritically) have the same whatever bodies sign as someone else. I don't see why the sign of any object would not matter, even if they are entirely generational.

I think of rulerships as the best suited, as far as similar "vibrations" or "energy" whatever, just how they are. I also believe the outers are the higher octaves of some of the personals. They can be expressed personally.

Mars-Pluto
Moon-Neptune
Mercury-Uranus

Personally, i think they represent the next phase in our evolution, as we expand and resonate with different vibrations. Of course, we will need Saturn and Jupiter to move forward as well.

Only my opinion, still a noob
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Unread 12-03-2007, 04:19 PM
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generational and personal, to mdinaz

mdinaz,

You said:
Quote:
the outer planets - Uranus, Neptune, Pluto - are generational and their locations mean little to your personal makeup
I think the outers are both generational and personal. While they do have generational effects because of their slow movements, they can have very strong personal effects as well. However, not everyone is "tuned" into these planets. But for those who have many aspects to these planets or if it hits any of the 4 points in the chart (i.e., Ascendant, Midheaven, Descendand, and IC), these energies are very strongly felt.

Strongly,

Tim
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Unread 12-03-2007, 04:29 PM
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signs and Outers, to Kaiousei

Kaiousei,

You said:
Quote:
While I would interpret the Inners based on Sign, House, and Aspect, I would not treat the Outers in such a way. Instead, I would only find the House and Aspects (and the only to the Inners) to be useful, so Signs don't matter to the Outers
I think a planet is a planet, and since planets are in signs, then planets are in signs. Whether or not it is an "inner" planet or an "outer" planet, it doesn't matter. Since the "outer" planets are planets and have signs, then signs matter to the outer just as much as to the inners.

Simply,

Tim
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Unread 12-03-2007, 08:20 PM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

Quote:
They move very slow, but that does not make them any less valid or personal.
Are they less valid? No. Are they less personal? Yes. Uranus spends about seven years in each Sign, will that affect the world? Definitely. Will it affect individuals? I don't see it happening, unless that person's chart is colored with a specific member of the Outers (or perhaps more than one) regarding house position and aspects to by the Inners.

Quote:
I don't see why the sign of any object would not matter, even if they are entirely generational.
See above. They matter, perhaps in such astrologies as mundane and predictive, but I don't see them making much of an impact in nativities unless certain circumstances are met.

Quote:
I think the outers are both generational and personal. While they do have generational effects because of their slow movements, they can have very strong personal effects as well. However, not everyone is "tuned" into these planets. But for those who have many aspects to these planets or if it hits any of the 4 points in the chart (i.e., Ascendant, Midheaven, Descendand, and IC), these energies are very strongly felt.
Exactly. They're generational, and only personal in regard to the rest of the chart.

Quote:
I think a planet is a planet, and since planets are in signs, then planets are in signs. Whether or not it is an "inner" planet or an "outer" planet, it doesn't matter.
Big words when we're not even sure what constitutes a planet.

Do the Outers express themselves in Signs? Yes, but in a general manner I don't see it applying to individuals, but the entire group.

I don't get it, you agree with me but you're angry about it.
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Unread 12-03-2007, 09:12 PM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

I would not yet call myself an astrologer at all......just to get this out the way.

I think that the outer planets have to do with evolution......obviously this has to do with the generations but i think that they can also have a profound experience on individuals.....
I had an experience in 1997 (psychedelic drug induced mind you) that has changed who I am as a person.......When i look to the stars on what happened that day, I am a bit blown away.......Maybe not to you guys, but to me yes! (I have trouble expalining to others what i experienced but lets just say that i think if everyone had similar experiences the world would be a safer and more loving place)
Anyway on the day....transitting sun , sat on my natal uranus at the zenith.......Transiting uranus sat on my aqua asc.........transitting neptune sat on my natal moon.......
Anyway what i am getting at is, I think I had some original thoughts that day......I think thats what the outer planets are doing.....bring ing the opportunities to think deeper and wider, to evolve......

I disagree that they are only generational.......maybe for the most part they are, but when they conjuct planets in our natal in transit, ithink they become very personal.....for me to the point that i cant expalin to anyone else what i felt and experienced.......

But like i said , I am not an astrologer.....I am just throwing this experience into the equation to see what you all think.....

I think Tim is right....because for me....when uranus hit my asc......i felt it stronger than anything else i have experienced in my life.....(truely)
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Unread 12-03-2007, 09:39 PM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

I think the outers, in and of themselves, are generational and only are there to shape the general cultural worldview of those of us who live on Earth. When they closely aspect our personal planets or transit very sensitive points, they do certainly modify some personality traits. But whether Uranus in Taurus square Mercury is any different than Uranus in Virgo square Mercury, I say, not really. It may affect certain generational viewpoints and the expression of those viewpoints but the essential personality remains the same. A very fine line to be sure, but that's the fun part of astrology.

Second part, Uranus on the ASC/MC, etc. Until Uranus was discovered, life moved very slowly. Things just didn't change much as far as overall quality of life. The discovery of Uranus coincided with the rise of technology and science as well as politics, and then things did indeed begin to change quickly. Uranus was always there, just no one knew it, and as a generational planet affecting personal planets, it simply did not exist. This is what I mean when I say "Uranus is generational and as such, does not shape the personality". It modifies the personality, it adds elements to it, but it is not a vital component of the personality, only the inner planets are. Clear as mud, I think.
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Unread 12-03-2007, 09:49 PM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

I thought it was perfectly clearn, mdinaz.

Absolutely brilliant and I agree with you 100%.
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Unread 12-03-2007, 10:06 PM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

you dont both think that our non knowledge of these planetsfor such along time, is influenced by there placement at the time.....?

Sorry i am a bit muddy with my dodge merc placement.....bare with me
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Unread 12-03-2007, 10:18 PM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Green
you dont both think that our non knowledge of these planetsfor such along time, is influenced by there placement at the time.....?
That's exactly what I think - if the planet wasn't known, it essentially did not exist. And their discoveries exactly mirrors our own evolution as people and cultures. Think back - as cavemen, we knew two planets - sun and moon. That's it. And life was essentially focused on that - "Am I alive? Do I feel pain?", and that's about it. There were no thoughts about "why am I here", "what's my career path" - the only thoughts were "eat, sleep, don't bleed, and make little cave children".
As the ancients discovered other planets, life evolved. Venus and Mars, cities and trade grew. Jupiter - philosophies, religions, reasons for life. Saturn - governments, large states and nations, big business. And there life stalled, for two thousand years. Once Uranus came around, things changed rapidly. Radical political thoughts - wars over ideas rather than property. Neptune - science, medical discoveries, drugs. Pluto - radical ideas that challenged the supremacy of religion and the Church, people taking claims about who THEY were, apart from a nation or town. When the planets didn't exist, the ideas didn't exist; I think it follows very well.
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Unread 12-03-2007, 11:45 PM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisceanfool
For example, how can Saturn rule Aqua? That's like some kind of astrological oxymoron in my opinion. There are some similarities, but not like Uranus. The others also fit very nicely. I can elaborate, but i think most of you guys agree.
First, consider the term "modern" astrology. What does it mean? And traditional astrology: same question. What does that mean?

Studying the history of astrology and what has gone before will surely enrich your knowledge, period.

The traditional rulership linking planets and signs assumed that all planets had two "sides", a masculine and feminine side. Only the Sun and Moon were exempted from this. So seven planets, five connected to two signs.

Now, consider Saturn. We tend to have a very limited idea of what Saturn represents today. We consider mostly the feminine side, linked to Capricorn. So we associate Saturn with lessons, limitations, hard lessons, restrictions.

But think beyond that. First, think of how Saturn operates in easy aspect to other planets. What does Saturn trine Mercury show? A limited mind? Or one that, through discipline, may be capable of going on to completely uncharted territory? If Saturn is trine Jupiter, does it mean that Jupiter is less expansive, less generous? Or more in control, more balanced?

When you think of Aquarius, do you think of flakes, weirdness, eccentricity? Or of freedom controlled through discipline/wisdom and focused to get something done, perhaps something new that works?

The idea that Aquarius is linked with eccentricity and weirdness is a relatively new idea, and I think a very wrong one. I would argue, for the same reason, that IF Uranus resonates with the energy of Aquarius, and I think it does, our concept of Uranus is equally flawed.

I have Mercury trine Aquarius, both sextile Saturn. You and others have read my posts. Am I tradiational? Modern? Or am I looking for solutions that bring the best of both ideas together?

Obviously the latter. I don't accept every idea that has been, in my opinion, sometimes blindly accepted simply because astrologer A or B declared it so. I'm going to test things (this is part of Saturn too, find the limitations), but I'm going to go wherever my ideas lead me (freedom), which you may associate with Uranus. So I see no problem whatsoever in seriously thinking about how Saturn relates to Aquarius.

Gaer
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Unread 12-04-2007, 12:12 AM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdinaz
That's exactly what I think - if the planet wasn't known, it essentially did not exist. And their discoveries exactly mirrors our own evolution as people and cultures.
I agree that the discovery of the "new planets" mirrow our own evolution, when talking about mankind as a whole.
But I don't agree that "if the planet wasn't known, it essentially did not exist."

I think that's taking a point too far.

It's unfortunate that we can't view accurate charts of people living long ago. So many times we are very lucky to have the right day, with all the calendar conflicts, incorrectly recorded data, etc. Birth-times? I don't trust them.

But IF we could examine the chart of Da Vinci, for instance, I would not be surprised to find an outer planet on the angles. Was there ever a greater genius? Someone who was more known for thinking beyond his times? The fact that we don't have an accurate chart for him does not prove to me or even suggest to me that positions of the outer planets within his natal chart, the one we don't have, and aspects from them to personal planets, would not at least support what we know already: inventive genius for the most part totally at odds with the times in which he lived.

I'm looking at the chart of Frederic Chopin right now. Uranus trine Pluto/Sun/Venus. Square Mercury. Almost exactly inconjunt Pallas, for those of you who are interested in that. We can't check the houses, no reliable birth-time, but does that mean that Uranus only counts because it was discovered already?

Okay. So what about Neptune? Chopin not only was one of the great innovators, perhaps the greatest ever in relationship to piano music, but his music has always been described as dreamy, other-worldly, romantic, and so on. Using your idea, we can't use Neptune in his chart because it was not yet discovered. A planet does not work until after it is discovered. And Chopin died at about the time Neptune was found.

So the fact that Neptune is square to those same three planets as well as trine to Mars can have no importance, following your logic. If that's what you meant.

I believe that if a planet has energy, it would be as important in a natal chart from two thousand years ago as in one from two decades ago.

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Unread 12-04-2007, 12:15 AM
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Re: Traditional vs modern. state your case

Your post is very clear, Gaer....in no way limited or eccentric.......
It seems to me that traditional astrology is the roots of the topic.....you cant go on without it.......

The weird thing i am noticing though (as useless as this info is), is that our knowledge of astrology is only going to be relative to what is going on in the sky for all of us .... and i guess we have to accept that new trends ,to our way of life, could be representd by new discoveries of planets/objects......I dont think we can ever assume that the knowledge of astrology will ever be boxed and not needed to be added too.....

[non-astrological comments moved to chat board - Moderator]

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Unread 12-06-2007, 04:21 PM
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please stay on topic

To all,

Please stay on topic. There is a general chat board for discussions that are not about astrology. I have moved the non-astrological evolution comments to this chat board.

Moderately,

Tim
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Unread 12-06-2007, 05:00 PM
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personal and generational, to Kaousei

Kaousei,

You said:
Quote:
Are they less valid? No. Are they less personal? Yes. Uranus spends about seven years in each Sign, will that affect the world? Definitely. Will it affect individuals? I don't see it happening, unless that person's chart is colored with a specific member of the Outers (or perhaps more than one) regarding house position and aspects to by the Inners.
So we do agree that the outer planets can affect individuals. Perhaps it is a matter of how much it affects individuals. As we agree, there are situations in which a person will feel the outer planets more strongly and personally, so making blanket statements such as "the outer planets are less personal" is very clearly not true in all situations. As you say, if a "person's chart is colored with a specific member of the Outers (or perhaps more than one) regarding house position and aspects to by the Inners" then they could be very personal indeed. For example, if these outer planets "gang up" on the Ascendant (self), then the person may be able to personally use all the outers' energies.

Which brings us to the idea of "personal" and "generational". If something affects a person "personally" then they are immediately aware of it and see it in their life. If something affects a person "generationally" then they STILL experience it, even if they are less aware of it. And, yes, it DOES affect the person themselves...things that affect the "world" affect us, since we are in the world. It comes down to a matter of how "tuned in" a person is to the effects of the outer planets. If something affects a "group" (or a generation) it also affects the people IN the group. If a group of people all identify with certain "generational" things, then they also both individually identify with those things as well.

Which raises the question, what is the difference between "Inner" (so-called "personal" planets) and "Outer" (so-called generational planets). As you mentioned, it is all about time. The "personal" effects of transiting personal planets are one-off and quickly gone. They are the "day to day" challenges that we can easily handle: for example, if we have a Mars transit, we might feel angry for a few days and then the anger goes away. The "impersonal" effects of transiting outer planets are longer-lasting...and much more strongly felt.

As you say, when you have a Uranus transit it lasts a LONG time. And during that time the full power of the sign and the house are in effect. The sign is important since it colors the effect of the outer planet. So, for example, when transiting Uranus hits (conjuncts) your Descendant (others), there is a STRONG, LONG lasting effect on how you handle others. The way this energy comes out will be affected by the sign of Uranus, which will interact with the sign on the cusp of the Descendant. When Uranus is in one sign and the Descendant is in another, the challenges of the Uranus energy will be much more strongly felt, since the Uranus sign will "fight" with the Descendant sign. Once Uranus moves into the sign of the Descendant, the "fight" is over and things seem more "normal" to us, even though we now have this new Uranian energy affecting how we inter-relate with others.

So we have to always consider sign, planet and house in astrology, no matter which planet it is. Arbitrarily throwing out one of these important parts of astrology because it is "generational" only hurts our ability to fully understand the energy and lessons of the chart and the transits to the chart.

Generationally personal,

Tim
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Last edited by wilsontc; 12-06-2007 at 05:32 PM.
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Unread 12-06-2007, 07:44 PM
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Re: personal and generational, to Kaousei

Quote:
As we agree, there are situations in which a person will feel the outer planets more strongly and personally, so making blanket statements such as "the outer planets are less personal" is very clearly not true in all situations.
Yes we do. However, you yourself just said the Outers are less personal. Again, we agree, but yet you still feel the need to call me out on it. The Outer planets are less personal unless specific criteria are met. On the other hand, the Inners are always personal, regardless. So yes, the Outers are less personal than the Inners as the Outers have to perform something special for someone to 'tune in' to them, whereas the Inners are always personal, regardless.

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As you say, if a "person's chart is colored with a specific member of the Outers (or perhaps more than one) regarding house position and aspects to by the Inners" then they could be very personal indeed.
Yes, they could be, but are not always. Again we agree, but you're angry about it.

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If something affects a person "generationally" then they STILL experience it, even if they are less aware of it.
Perhaps, but I dare say we usually have a choice about just how much we let a generational happening affect us.

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And, yes, it DOES affect the person themselves...things that affect the "world" affect us, since we are in the world.
Yes we may feel it, but what makes it 'personal' is that it affects us and not everybody else around the world. Hint person being one individual. I'm not denying the Outers their powers, I'm just saying that what's the same for you is going to be the same for EVERYBODY else, which is not personal. For instance, that which is personal property is mine. My house, my car, my stuff. Now, I may share this stuff with select individuals, but otherwise it's mine. Public ('generational') property is something I have no control over and that I must share with everyone else. Now, to apply this analogy with astrology, personal planetary placements (nice alliteration, right?) are going to affect me and those who are close to me, while the Outers and their generational placements are going to affect myself and everyone else. Not personal.

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As you say, when you have a Uranus transit it lasts a LONG time.
I don't believe I've said anything about someone experiencing a Uranus transit...

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So, for example, when transiting Uranus hits (conjuncts) your Descendant (others), there is a STRONG, LONG lasting effect on how you handle others.
What you are referring to here are transits which I believe are classified as a type of Predictive astrology, I believe we've been speaking of Natal astrology and the Outers' affects therein. To which house and aspect placements are what is important as they are personal, whereas the Sign placement is not so.

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So we have to always consider sign, planet and house in astrology, no matter which planet it is.
Perhaps in Mundane and Predictive, but not in Nativities.
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  #23  
Unread 12-06-2007, 10:55 PM
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Re: personal and generational, to Kaousei

Kai,

I would sum up my own view this way, using my own chart, and I'll use Uranus, since somehow it seems to have appeared in this topic UNEXPECTEDLY.

I was born when Uranus was just entering Cancer. But because of the annual Rx motion for the outers, it backed up into Gemini again, much as Mars is about to do soon now.

Uranus finally entered Cancer and stayed there in July of 1949.

So, I suppose I was a "Uranus in Cancer" pioneer.

But what does Uranus in Cancer mean to me and for all the people who were born with it in this sign for the next seven years? This MAY be valid: it marks a period of time in which TV suddenly changed everything. Is it personal? No, because countless people my age were affected in much the same way.

The importance of the sign of Uranus may become "personal" due to aspect. I have Mercury about 4 Scorpio, so trine. The fact that the trine is formed between two water signs (which is not always the case, since Uranus could have been at 29 Gemini) is much more personal, because Mercury is involved.
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So yes, the Outers are less personal than the Inners as the Outers have to perform something special for someone to 'tune in' to them, whereas the Inners are always personal, regardless.
That's pretty much how I look at it. To make the outers "personal", I want to see them angular, in meaningful aspects to other faster moving bodies, etc. The most personal would be a relationship to points, since they move so quickly. The second most personal would be to the Moon, fastest moving. Mercury and Venus CAN be more personal than the Sun in terms of movement, since at their fastest (from our perspective) they move faster than the Sun, and that makes them very tricky, since they also can be suprisingly motionless for at least a few days.

The best example I can think of involving an aspect that is truly multi-generational is that of Neptune to Pluto. The fact that we find the sextile so often in charts from the latter half of the 20th century makes that sextile, by itself, something I would pay little attention to unless there is some kind of personal connection to one of those two planets, although in a surprising number of instances there is.
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Now, to apply this analogy with astrology, personal planetary placements (nice alliteration, right?) are going to affect me and those who are close to me, while the Outers and their generational placements are going to affect myself and everyone else. Not personal.
That's also my point of view. However, it's hard to find charts where the outers do not form significant aspects to the "inners".
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Unread 12-06-2007, 11:17 PM
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Re: personal and generational, to Kaousei

would anyone like to add what they think are the main differences between modern and traditional astrology are..................
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  #25  
Unread 12-07-2007, 05:26 AM
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this discussion is about the difference, to Green

Green,

This discussion is an interesting case of a modern interpretation vs. a traditional interpretation. The modern interpretation attempts to use every planet in the chart from the point of view in how it personally interacts with the person's psychological makeup. So the modern astrological view is to look at what does the sign, planet, and house do for every planet as an indication of the psychological reality of that person.

The traditional view of planetary chart interpretation stops at Saturn, so planets that go beyond Saturn (such as Uranus) are looked on as something that may be of interest to the public as a whole, but that don't matter that much in individual charts. So the traditional interpretation accepts that the planets exist, but insists that they don't have that much of a personal affect on the person. In order to understand the "person"'s chart (in the traditional view) it is only important to focus only on the more "personal" planets that stop at Saturn. Beyond that point the planets aren't interpreted in the person's chart.

So, as a modernist, I insist that Uranus (and other "outer" planets - planets beyond Saturn) also have a personal effect. And, as a traditionalist, Kaiousei insists that the effects of the Uranus (and other "outer" planets) are mainly generational effects and have little or no personal effect, so are of no or very little importance in birth charts.

Explaining,

Tim
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