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Mundane Astrology Discuss the astrology of towns, cities, states, provinces, countries, empires, and the world in general.


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  #101  
Unread 06-15-2021, 06:48 PM
blackbery blackbery is offline
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

I missed this one.

Ok, you call Patriotism 'xenophobia'. Sounds like yet another Lunatic Left 'theory' where every white person is a racist!

Love of country is strong with both Reps AND Dems
.

Ummmmm. South America & Canada are right next door to the U.S.A. yet vast majority of Americans are not interested in venturing out of their crab shell.

Australians are great travelers and go thousands of miles from their homeland.

Majority of Americans prefer to travel within their own country. It's not a criticism but part of the love they have for America.

You appear to be very angry that I'm pointing out various Truths.

U.S.A. DOES engage in economy colonialism. Mostly for oil but also for gold & other resources.

What countries love the U.S.A?

Below, check out the countries that love America the most, according to a recent report by the Pew Research Center. Remember that the poll was completed during President Trump's 1st Term so the countries may feel different now with the Marxist-Dem-Regime.

Vietnam #1
Israel #2
Philippines #3


https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/w...the-most.html/




Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Blackbery, this is geography and personal finance, not love of country. Obviously people who serve the US in uniform love their country a lot, and they typically have overseas tours of duty.

You may have noticed that the US is a massive country. It costs money to travel overseas. In contrast, European countries are typically very small so they often travel across borders for business or holidays.

To me, you're describing xenophobia or economic considerations more than patriotism.


So the US engages in economic colonialism.




Which nations love the Americans?
Keep in mind that most countries would be split on this issue.

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  #102  
Unread 06-15-2021, 09:43 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Constantly proclaiming one's Patriotism is blatant Virtue Signaling!
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  #103  
Unread 06-15-2021, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Saturn=Fear

Saturn=Power and Control

Saturn=Mortality


Pluto is about the Soul's transformative journey in the Afterlife, following the death of the material body.

All three Water-sign rulers--The Moon, Pluto, and Neptune--are about connectivity to the non-material realms.

Saturn restricts us to materialistic awareness.
Pluto - anger, fear, compulsion, guilt, jealousy, defensiveness, possession, obsession, vindictiveness, manipulation, suspicion, regeneration, rebirth, positive will power, non defensive, positive motivation.

Pluto is about power, and control. Of yourself, and of as you point out the non material realm. But it is control nonetheless.

According to Jeffrey Wolf Green. My go to Pluto guy.

Last edited by Opal; 06-16-2021 at 02:22 AM.
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  #104  
Unread 06-16-2021, 01:44 AM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbery View Post
I missed this one.

Ok, you call Patriotism 'xenophobia'. Sounds like yet another Lunatic Left 'theory' where every white person is a racist!

Love of country is strong with both Reps AND Dems
.

Ummmmm. South America & Canada are right next door to the U.S.A. yet vast majority of Americans are not interested in venturing out of their crab shell.

Australians are great travelers and go thousands of miles from their homeland.

Majority of Americans prefer to travel within their own country. It's not a criticism but part of the love they have for America.

You appear to be very angry that I'm pointing out various Truths.

U.S.A. DOES engage in economy colonialism. Mostly for oil but also for gold & other resources.

What countries love the U.S.A?

Below, check out the countries that love America the most, according to a recent report by the Pew Research Center. Remember that the poll was completed during President Trump's 1st Term so the countries may feel different now with the Marxist-Dem-Regime.

Vietnam #1
Israel #2
Philippines #3


https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/w...the-most.html/
And to add Mexico has a mixed love-hate with the US: to love the US' economic model of prosperity to attracted millions of Mexicans across the border for a long time, but to hate the anti-Mexican/Hispanic/Latinx racism from reactionary Americans who felt the US was being invaded by "illegal alien immigrants".
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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  #105  
Unread 06-16-2021, 02:55 AM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Constantly proclaiming one's Patriotism is blatant Virtue Signaling!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvinism
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  #106  
Unread 06-16-2021, 04:32 AM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

The American armed services used to advertise overseas deployments as a recruiting tool. Are you saying that our troops are unpatriotic?

Blackberry, love of country has little to do with where one vacations, unless it is to visit historic sites. Maybe you organize your travel to visit Civil War battlefields, for example. Travel costs money, discretionary money that many Americans don't have. Others spend their limited holidays visiting family or their summer home.

Mexico was a popular tourist destination for Texans and Californians before they began to worry about their personal safety. The Caribbean attracted more tourists from the eastern states. The Canadian Rockies and Quebec City are popular destinations for American tourists.

Of course-- never mind Covid travel restrictions. The US-Canada border has been closed to tourism for over a year now. So yeah, better vacation in the US.

You've made a virtue out of necessity.

Americans who have never ventured away from their cocoons lack perspective. There is a bigger world out there.

Coming from the perspective of an American who has lived in Israel and Canada, my foreign sojourns have given me a much broader overview on the United States. It has also caused me to stand up for the USA in ways you probably have never had to face.

Do you even know what xenophobic means? You repeatedly demonstrate that you do not know what Marxism stands for.

Your list of countries that most love the USA is rather telling. The US pours all kinds of government and charitable aid into Israel. Many Israelis have American roots or family in the US. The US also pours millions of dollars into the Philippines and Vietnam. Its military bases in the Philippines are a source of income.

Bleckbery, you get my vote for being the most consistently angry member of this forum. It just goes on and on.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
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  #107  
Unread 06-16-2021, 04:50 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Gleefully hyperbolic, acerbic language can ward off boredom.
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  #108  
Unread 06-16-2021, 04:57 AM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
P.S. The surrender of Cornwallis was the last battle on US soil. After THAT battle the US was its own country, and the British knew it. They didn't DARE put any more troops on US soil. This was NOT the case when Independence was DECLARED as that was the BEGINNING of the war. The surrender of Cornwallis was the end of the war and the beginning of the US as its own country. The Treaty of Paris was simply a formality that allowed the British to save face.
Tim, maybe we'll never agree on this point, but it took 2 years for the treaty of Paris to be signed. The initial British position was that our country was still a British possession. Then the first two Continental Congresses--the fledgling federal government, took place prior to the Declaration of Independence.

Then what in heaven's name do you make of the War of 1812, with British troops returning to American soil and attacking US ships in naval engagements?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

Probably all American school children learned about the British burning of Washington, DC (including the White House) in 1814, with plucky First Lady Dolley Madison saving the portrait of George Washington. (Trouble is, historical research later revealed that enslaved African Americans were the ones who saved the painting.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Washington

The US eventually prevailed, but it just goes to show that Yorktown did not end British hostilities.

Tim, I am OK with your sticking up for your US founding horoscope. But one cannot simply re-script history to do that.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #109  
Unread 06-16-2021, 05:01 AM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Gleefully hyperbolic, acerbic language can ward off boredom.
By your logic, Blackbery must be awfully bored.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #110  
Unread 06-16-2021, 05:06 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
By your logic, Blackbery must be awfully bored.

Well, partying ain't what it used to be!
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  #111  
Unread 06-16-2021, 07:37 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

In Traditionalistic astrology, Saturn "Joys" in the Twelfth House.

The Cornwallis chart is in that situation. And, imprisonment is one of Saturn's greatest joys.

The U.S. has, by far, the highest percentage rate of incarceration in the World.

Kind of incongruous for "The Land of the Free"!


Couldn't the War of 1812 be considered the aftermath of the first Saturn Return, Nov. 28th, 1810?

The last Saturn Return using this chart was on Nov. 18, 2016, right after the Presidential election that put Trump in the White House.

Last edited by david starling; 06-16-2021 at 12:17 PM.
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  #112  
Unread 06-16-2021, 09:04 AM
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Question Re: US - a Uranian Country

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post
Pluto - anger, fear, compulsion, guilt, jealousy, defensiveness, possession, obsession, vindictiveness, manipulation, suspicion, regeneration, rebirth, positive will power, non defensive, positive motivation.

Pluto is about power, and control. Of yourself, and of as you point out the non material realm. But it is control nonetheless.

According to Jeffrey Wolf Green. My go to Pluto guy.

Looks like he combined Saturn with Mars to get Pluto's characteristics. Don't tell me he left out Transformation?
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  #113  
Unread 06-16-2021, 12:05 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Looks like he combined Saturn with Mars to get Pluto's characteristics. Don't tell me he left out Transformation?

No he didn't leave it out, I did. He wrote 2 books on Pluto. I left out a lot, in my brief paragraph. He is really an interesting writer, I also have one of his books on the astral entity of Lucifer. And a book on Lilith that he didn't write, but did publish.
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  #114  
Unread 06-16-2021, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
No he didn't leave it out, I did. He wrote 2 books on Pluto. I left out a lot, in my brief paragraph. He is really an interesting writer, I also have one of his books on the astral entity of Lucifer. And a book on Lilith that he didn't write, but did publish.
What's his take on Lucifer?
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  #115  
Unread 06-16-2021, 12:17 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

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What's his take on Lucifer?
I have acquired it recently, I haven't read it. Yet. I started with Lilith, and then work got in the way.
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  #116  
Unread 06-16-2021, 12:32 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Saturn=Fear

Saturn=Power and Control

Saturn=Mortality...Saturn restricts us to materialistic awareness.
David,

I'm interested in your comments about Saturn, since in the Cornwallis chart Saturn is unaspected in the 12th house. Saturn is far enough from the Ascendant that it doesn't connect in with the chart and operates on its own. This suggests that Saturn in the US chart operates on its own in the house of self-undoing. That means that authority can operate on its own in the US from behind the scenes to result in the self-undoing of the US. We see that happening now, with government authorities using the fear of the Pandemic to grant themselves all sorts of hidden powers that enable them to control people far beyond the US Constitution's limits on government power. The fear of mortality lead the US to give up its rights to hidden authority.

Following up on Saturn,

Tim

P.S. While the Battle of Yorktown was the last battle in the Battle for Independence from Britain, when the British colonies became free from British oppression, there were times over the years when the British attacked the United States as a country.
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Last edited by wilsontc; 06-21-2021 at 12:28 PM.
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  #117  
Unread 06-16-2021, 12:45 PM
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Question Re: US - a Uranian Country

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
David,

I'm interested in your comments about Saturn, since in the Cornwallis chart Saturn is unaspected in the 12th house. Saturn is far enough from the Ascendant that it doesn't connect in with the chart and operates on its own. This suggests that Saturn in the US chart operates on its own in the house of self-undoing. That means that authority can operate on its own in the US from behind the scenes to result in the self-undoing of the US. We see that happening now, with government authorities using the fear of the Pandemic to grant themselves all sorts of hidden powers that enable them to control people far beyond the US Constitution's limits on government power. The fear of mortality lead the US to give up its rights to hidden authority.

Following up on Saturn,

Tim Wilson

P.S. While the Battle of Yorktown was the last battle in the Battle for Independence from Britain, when the British colonies became free from British oppression, there were times over the years when the British attacked the United States as a country.

Tim, what about the empty First House? That stands out for me.
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  #118  
Unread 06-16-2021, 01:37 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

I've ignored 90% of your insults towards me.

Stop taking your anger and Trump Derangement Syndrome out on me.

You've been wrong on everything whether it's calling President Trump & his supporters every derogatory name you can dig up....when all the things you accuse him of, the Dems have done...and a whole lot more.

You called me a murderer (& others) for not making a 'scrap of material across my face' and told me I was 'killing granny'. All your own words because you thought Fauci & fake prez Bidan were telling the Truth about masks, etc. Meanwhile, everything they said was wrong & caused thousands of deaths with the lock-downs, banning HCQ, banning ANY doctor who posted about it.

Yet, you continue to deny the lies told by the fake news and your heroes.

All because of your HATE for orangeman bad.

Try to control your anger & rage as President Trump IS coming back
. He won in a landslide & the audits are proving it. Your team cheated & got caught.

But no need to constantly attack the messenger because you are unable to handle the truth.

Thank you.

Have a nice day.








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Bleckbery, you get my vote for being the most consistently angry member of this forum. It just goes on and on.
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  #119  
Unread 06-16-2021, 01:54 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

I apologize to TimW for the interruption in his thread but WB keeps trolling me to attack me because I'm a Trump supporter and I usually just ignore her. You cannot debate rationally with a person suffering severe case of TDS. But this time I decided to respond as needs to learn that bullying and calling people nasty names is not acceptable. She has called me a liar, a racist, a 'covid-denier', a climate-change denier and a murderer to top it off. She will continue in her nasty ways & I will once again ignore her & her trolling.

Back to Uranian U.S.A.
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  #120  
Unread 06-16-2021, 03:17 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
In Traditionalistic astrology, Saturn "Joys" in the Twelfth House.

The Cornwallis chart is in that situation. And, imprisonment is one of Saturn's greatest joys.

The U.S. has, by far, the highest percentage rate of incarceration in the World.

Kind of incongruous for "The Land of the Free"!


Couldn't the War of 1812 be considered the aftermath of the first Saturn Return, Nov. 28th, 1810?

The last Saturn Return using this chart was on Nov. 18, 2016, right after the Presidential election that put Trump in the White House.
The traditional explanation was that Saturn, as the greater malefic, would do less harm in a house already labeled "the house of the evil spirit" (daemon) vs. in a house where good things were supposed to happen. Saturn had some benefits, but overall Saturn was the catch-all planet for bad things that happened.

I would see Trump's 2016 election as the greater malefic doing its work.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #121  
Unread 06-16-2021, 03:40 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

You know, Tim, I'm starting to think that you're less interested in doing the hard work of tracking major historical events in comparison to your Yorktown chart, than you are in justifying your own hard-wired ideology.

A mundane founding chart has to hold up independently of its proponent's political beliefs. Obviously, most astrologers on the planet would dispute the validity of your rightwing views, notably outside the United States. But you may be able to make a case based upon tracking your chart's transits and progressions.

Some astrologers think primary directions are the most accurate predictive/post-dictive tool.

How does your chart stack up against key dates in US history? That is how validation is normally done in mundane astrology. This is where the Sibly chart has done very well, despite legitimate questions about using the Declaration as the founding date. [There are several versions, using rectified times, but it still holds up pretty well.]

There are also many on-line discussions about alternative US "birth charts," for example: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8343 surely these would be worth studying.

Your conspiracy theories about the pandemic are untrue. People are dying from Covid, Tim. To the tune of 600,000 Americans to date. Now there's a more contagious Delta variant. It's about saving lives, Tim. Possibly yours.

I also urge you to study American history in more detail. Never mind the ideology. You cannot legitimize a chart via factual errors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
David,

I'm interested in your comments about Saturn, since in the Cornwallis chart Saturn is unaspected in the 12th house. Saturn is far enough from the Ascendant that it doesn't connect in with the chart and operates on its own. This suggests that Saturn in the US chart operates on its own in the house of self-undoing. That means that authority can operate on its own in the US from behind the scenes to result in the self-undoing of the US. We see that happening now, with government authorities using the fear of the Pandemic to grant themselves all sorts of hidden powers that enable them to control people far beyond the US Constitution's limits on government power. The fear of mortality lead the US to give up its rights to hidden authority.

Following up on Saturn,

Tim Wilson

P.S. While the Battle of Yorktown was the last battle in the Battle for Independence from Britain, when the British colonies became free from British oppression, there were times over the years when the British attacked the United States as a country.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #122  
Unread 06-16-2021, 04:14 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

Blackbery, take personal responsibility for your histrionics. Stop trolling me.

Tim-- Just to draw a finer point on it: mundane house meanings may overlap, but public health is typically a 6th house matter.

The bigger issue with your conspiracy theory and rewriting history approaches is that they make a mockery of mundane astrology.

We could have Neo-Nazi astrologers rewriting the history of Germany, and interpreting fascism and the Reich to their liking. You could have Blackbery's fearsome "Marxist Democrats" coming up with their favorite chart and using it to show why QAnon, Donald Trump, and his sycophants were the worst thing that happened to American democracy. White supremacists could probably use even your Yorktown chart to cast chattel slavery and Jim Crow laws in a favorable light.

I could pretend to be a flaming liberal and interpret your Yorktown chart in exactly the opposite way that you see it. This wouldn't be hard. I could use it to trash the entire Trump movement.

So mundane astrology, if it is retain any validity, needs to focus on the incontrovertible facts. Because astrology deals with timing, this is usually done by inputting key historical dates, and seeing if one's progressed or transit chart interprets them in a reasonable fashion.

You wrote:
Quote:
there were times over the years when the British attacked the United States as a country.
Well, which dates "over the years" were those, exactly? The British figure majorly in your Yorktown chart. Input those military attack dates into your prognostication methods for your Yorktown chart. What results do you get? Do they have interpretive value?

Mundane horoscope interpretation requires a reasonable grounding in history. You've made several misstatements or omissions (like ignoring the British sacking of Washington, DC in 1814) that don't help your case.

Surely we can all up our game here.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 06-16-2021 at 04:21 PM.
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  #123  
Unread 06-16-2021, 05:44 PM
chiamaria chiamaria is online now
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

You could be right about the second chart being the right one. I've never seen the US as having Sun in Cancer tbh. Sun in Libra in the 10th house is more fitting of a nation that is willing to give equal footing to people of all kinds of backgrounds to make something of themselves through their own skills and career aspirations and move out of poverty and into wealth. That's why a lot of people from all over the world wanted to emigrate to the US to have this sort of opportunity that wasn't afforded to them in their own country. It also forms a nice trine to uranus, so there's that pioneer factor about it too.
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  #124  
Unread 06-16-2021, 06:49 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

You make a very good point Chia.

Sun in Cancer is not usually open and free to different nationalities and cultures. They are rather defensive and closed. Generally speaking.

But the Sibley Moon Aquarius in a lovely Trine to Venus/Jupiter expands the thinking and the experiences of the PEOPLE who welcome immigrants from any country...everyone was an immigrant once!

Yet again, I see the two charts working together to tell the same story.

Both SAG/AC in the charts indicates a land of foreigners from far away with an adventurous spirit to conquer the world.
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  #125  
Unread 06-16-2021, 06:56 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

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What you say is true TimW. The U.S.A. was still a colony of the British Empire in 1776.....

YET, on July 4, 1776, the Founding Fathers made and signed a DECLARATION that they were independent on that date. That's the beginning of the 'birth' of the country.

By issuing the Declaration of Independence, adopted by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776, the 13 American colonies severed their political connections to Great Britain. The Declaration summarized the colonists motivations for seeking independence. By declaring themselves an independent nation, the American colonists were able to confirm an official alliance with the Government of France and obtain French assistance in the war against Great Britain.

Remember that many of the Founding Fathers were also astrologers.

They wanted the people to love their new country & be loyal to it. Their principles are based on CANCER themes of home, family, children. Cancer is a Cardinal sign too, concerned with protecting itself. The Moon Aquarius in the 1776 was planned specifically to be so...in order to be open to other cultures, other ideas and look how many immigrants were settled into the country and become part of the whole.
Ok actually this makes more sense, though I'd also say that the US's ascendant in Sagittarius is also very open to people from all walks of life as well. That's why it's such a big melting pot.
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