Nicolas Sarkozy's re-election chances

Galen

New member
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Galen

New member
The first round of the French presidential election is next Sunday, April 22 (second round is May 6). Any predictions? ;)
 

dr. farr

Well-known member


According to different french astrologers, Sarkozy could be re-elected despite his present unpopularity:

http://www.astresnet.org/spip.php?article97

http://www.besoindesavoir.com/artic...edictions-helene-mack-sur-presidentielle-2012

http://www.besoindesavoir.com/article/860599/voyance-predictions-brice-karel-sur-presidentielle-2012

What do you think? Can he win despite being so unpopular?


What is this the chart of? Is it his natal chart?

(Note: in an event chart I erected on astro.com for sunrise-6:46 am-Paris, France, for Aprill 22nd, 2012, government = 10th whole sign house, challenger = 4th whole sign house, lord of the 10th house, Saturn, is posited in the cadent 6th house (Libra), while lord of the challenger party (4th house lord), the Sun, is posited in the whole sign first house (Taurus), rising, conjunct the ascending degree, and in an elevated degree of Taurus: while government significator Saturn is exalted in Libra, and retrograde, I think the angular position of challenger lord Sun, in the first, AND also being in an elevated degree of that sign, shows at the very least a strong possibility of the challenging party overcoming the government, or coming close to it, in the first electional rounds. I will say that, at this time, using the April 22 sunrise chart, I have doubts about Sarkozy's prospects for re-election)
 
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sandstone

Banned
hey galen,

it is an interesting time in french politics! i have a chart for france - 21 sept 1792 3:30pm... the opposition between jupiter/neptune conjunction opposite to saturn is being highlighted somewhat by transit of saturn to neptune at this time.. saturn to neptune can give a sense of disappointment and it sounds as though that is what the public is feeling towards sarkozy at this time.. the chart you have provided for sarkozy has some nice connections to the french chart.. francois hollande is born 1/2 year before sarkozy, so the same jupiter/uranus conjunction lands on the descendant for france chart from both these candidates.. i don't have a time for hollande although i asked around for it without success.. on the basis of the chart for france along with what i mentioned above, t mars has just gone direct squaring onto the moon for the next few days here which again re-enforces the negative mood of the public at this time which could lend itself to a switch up in the first run off.. i am not following it too closely as i am not french, but i think there is another one to go later as wel and this would just be round 1..

just trying to get the answer off sarkozys chart is possible.. it is interesting in that the neptune in frances chart that i was mentioning is at the same degree in sarkozys chart, so he is a good fit for the neptunian energies which seem to have a connection to politics as i have seen.. that is an interesting tie in, in itself to be born 1 full cycle from the birth of france, and hollande also shares this, although his neptune is 5 degrees earlier at 23 libra... april 22nd has the mercury/uranus conjunction right on sarkozys moon as well.. i am leaning towards hollande pulling off an upset of sorts, but i am not fully committed to it and haven't studied this a huge lot..
 

lilly02

Active member
hey galen,

it is an interesting time in french politics! i have a chart for france - 21 sept 1792 3:30pm... the opposition between jupiter/neptune conjunction opposite to saturn is being highlighted somewhat by transit of saturn to neptune at this time.. saturn to neptune can give a sense of disappointment and it sounds as though that is what the public is feeling towards sarkozy at this time.. the chart you have provided for sarkozy has some nice connections to the french chart.. francois hollande is born 1/2 year before sarkozy, so the same jupiter/uranus conjunction lands on the descendant for france chart from both these candidates.. i don't have a time for hollande although i asked around for it without success.. on the basis of the chart for france along with what i mentioned above, t mars has just gone direct squaring onto the moon for the next few days here which again re-enforces the negative mood of the public at this time which could lend itself to a switch up in the first run off.. i am not following it too closely as i am not french, but i think there is another one to go later as wel and this would just be round 1..

just trying to get the answer off sarkozys chart is possible.. it is interesting in that the neptune in frances chart that i was mentioning is at the same degree in sarkozys chart, so he is a good fit for the neptunian energies which seem to have a connection to politics as i have seen.. that is an interesting tie in, in itself to be born 1 full cycle from the birth of france, and hollande also shares this, although his neptune is 5 degrees earlier at 23 libra... april 22nd has the mercury/uranus conjunction right on sarkozys moon as well.. i am leaning towards hollande pulling off an upset of sorts, but i am not fully committed to it and haven't studied this a huge lot..

Hi Sandstone,

François Hollande is born at Rouen, France at 12:10 am, 12 august 1954
Sarkozy is born at Paris, France, at 10:00 pm, 28 january 1955

http://www.astrotheme.fr/astrologie/François_Hollande
http://www.astrotheme.fr/astrologie/Nicolas_Sarkozy
 

Galen

New member
Hollande is the favorite according to surveys, but many voters are still undecided, so maybe Sarkozy has a chance.
 

sandstone

Banned
thanks lilly

i don't like the way hollandes chart lines up with the french chart i mentioned above.. another astro observation i neglected to mention was t saturn is presently squaring the french ascendant at 25 capricorn and not right conjunct on neptune at 28 libra as i had sort of mentioned earlier. i was mixing the 2.. this idea of an austerity vibe seems to fit with this transit of saturn and i wonder how the issue of taxing the rich and spending as opposed to cutting back fits in the picture? the saturn t would imply cutting back.. it seems to me from what little i read sarkozy is interested more in cutting, correct? that might be due the strong mars in his chart, lol.. saturn connects more closely to frances midheaven using sarkozy's chart as compared to hollandes where it conjoins france's jupiter.. in this sense the saturn jupiter close connection is interesting politically speaking as this duo was always connected to the political cycle.. i think sarkozy is a better fit for the french people using just the french chart that i mentioned earlier, but i don't exclude the possibility of an upset here given the serious - saturn t square ascendant, and short term foul mood- mars square moon - that is happening at present.

the transiting nodal axis on hollandes ascendant axis is interesting here as well as i was talking about this cross over on another thread in the vedic section of this site. solar arc directions for hollande highlight a few movements involving the midheaven axis - sa mid opp natal venus in the 5th which is about 1 degree out and would definitely be considered positive here.. sa uranus 135 midheaven which can bring some sudden change in one's position too which seems to help support this 12:10am time.. thanks again for sharing the time for hollande.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Note: in an event chart I erected on astro.com for sunrise-6:46 am-Paris, France, for Aprill 22nd, 2012, government = 10th whole sign house, challenger = 4th whole sign house, lord of the 10th house, Saturn, is posited in the cadent 6th house (Libra), while lord of the challenger party (4th house lord), the Sun, is posited in the whole sign first house (Taurus), rising, conjunct the ascending degree, and in an elevated degree of Taurus: while government significator Saturn is exalted in Libra, and retrograde, I think the angular position of challenger lord Sun, in the first, AND also being in an elevated degree of that sign, shows at the very least a strong possibility of the challenging party overcoming the government, or coming close to it, in the first electional rounds. I will say that, at this time, using the April 22 sunrise chart, I have doubts about Sarkozy's prospects for re-election)

The event chart seems to have pointed in the correct direction: Sarkozy coming in 2nd to the main challenger in the April 22 election.
Progressing this event chart to the final run-off election in May, indicates that Sarkozy will not be re-elected.
 

sandstone

Banned
dr farr,

it is interesting using a sunrise chart as an event chart for the day of the election and i see what you are seeing if you use this.. it is a bit like the luck of the draw though with regard to rulers and where they land..

over at skyscript mark had made a post using the election opening 8am which puts gemini on the ascendant and changes it.. he used 8am as the time for the chart and for when the election booths opened.. he also used the aries ingress chart which seems to have been a favourite tool of bonati.. dean at noel tyl did the same.. both of them didn't really make a prediction either, although maybe they would see it differently..

i am mostly dovetailing the 2 candidates charts with a touch of the french chart thrown in to tip it a certain way.. i think the saturn transit square to ascendant in the french chart is a problem. it is retrograde, but i still see it as a problem in that the french people are uncomfortable with there choices and may make a decision that they can later live to regret.. that still doesn't say who i think will win this election but i continue to think it is hollande for a few different reasons.. i will try to comment with more astro definition before the may 6th date.. mars moves past the french moon, but still within orb of continuing with a mood of anger perhaps that i don't think bodes well for france, or sarkozy so much.. mars squares onto the nodal axis and this pattern overlaps hollandes ascendant axis..

the may 6th date lands on the full moon, so that is sun in taurus to moon in scorpio.. an atmosphere of heightened emotions are suggested by this full moon for the final date of the election..
 

lilly02

Active member
What is this the chart of? Is it his natal chart?

(Note: in an event chart I erected on astro.com for sunrise-6:46 am-Paris, France, for Aprill 22nd, 2012, government = 10th whole sign house, challenger = 4th whole sign house, lord of the 10th house, Saturn, is posited in the cadent 6th house (Libra), while lord of the challenger party (4th house lord), the Sun, is posited in the whole sign first house (Taurus), rising, conjunct the ascending degree, and in an elevated degree of Taurus: while government significator Saturn is exalted in Libra, and retrograde, I think the angular position of challenger lord Sun, in the first, AND also being in an elevated degree of that sign, shows at the very least a strong possibility of the challenging party overcoming the government, or coming close to it, in the first electional rounds. I will say that, at this time, using the April 22 sunrise chart, I have doubts about Sarkozy's prospects for re-election)

Congratulations Dr Farr for this analyse.
It is the first time in France when a president come in 2nd to an oposant in the 1st electional round. And you saw it.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Progression of the earlier (April 22, 2012) sunrise chart to today, May 6th, 2012, shows change of the government and Sarkozy's loss of the election.

Looking at the Paris sunrise chart for today, May 6th, clearly confirms this:
-government (Sarkozy) = 10th whole sign house = Aquarius = Saturn significator
Saturn is in the descending bow, posited in the cadent 6th whole sign house and under the horizon (if we wish to consider Uranus as co-significator for Aquarius, note that Uranus is in the cadent 12th house of this chart)
-challenger (Hollandes) = 4th whole sign house = Leo = Sun significator.
Sun is in an elevated degree of Taurus, is in the ascending bow, is about to join the ascending degree, and is in the 1st whole sign house of the chart.

Sarkozy's significator, Saturn, has set, Hollandes significator, the Sun, is about to rise to the horizon.

Clearly the current sunrise chart (May 6, 2012 chart) indicates the Hollandes victory and the Sarkozy defeat.

(But this Hollandes victory will be difficult for Hollandes and France over the coming months; also the forthcoming week of May 7 through May 11, European stock markets will be roiled by the Hollandes election, and will likely decline over the forthcoming 5 trading sessions following the May 6th Hollandes victory)
 
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sandstone

Banned
dr farr,

perhaps you can go into the justification for using a sunrise chart for the 1st election date when many others used an 8am start which is when the polls opened..
 

Galen

New member
Surveys were right, Hollande is the new french president, many french astrologers got it wrong. Congrats to dr. farr, very well done. :wink:
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
dr farr,

perhaps you can go into the justification for using a sunrise chart for the 1st election date when many others used an 8am start which is when the polls opened..

Simply because I have come to find that sunrise charts (for an event which involves most of, or the entire, forthcoming day) give (me) the most consistently accurate astrological indications; this use of sunrise charts is taken from the very oldtimes, and goes with the idea similar to that of the planetary hours (ie, the planetary hours for a given day are always calculated based upon the time of sunrise)

Just one of the things (ie the use of sunrise charts) regarding mundane astrology, that got me into trouble with the owner and moderator of the skyscript mundane forum a couple of years ago:surprised:!!
 

sandstone

Banned
dr farr,

i like using sunrise charts too, but for making a prediction off an election that has a specific start time and an end time for polling your use of it here is unorthodox.. i could see that being a challenge to the skyscript crowd to a degree.. one difficulty with this approach from my point of view is it favours the sun, and sign leo where-ever it lands in the chart automatically and not so much the saturn signs.. the sun is in a commanding position in a sunrise chart..

i prefer to use the natal charts and sync them up to the countries chart, but that is tricky to do with some countries like the usa which have too many charts to choose from.. in that case i just work with the candidates charts..
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Right, the Sun is in command in such charts-but I WANT to see who will command, relative to the 10th/4th house axis (government vs challengers)

I have never been satisfied with using candidate or even (alleged) "national natal charts" in mundane delineations-but, as you observed above, my approach here (as elsewhere) is quite unorthodox!
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
Update: May11th, 2012

As indicated in my post of May 6th regarding stock market ramifications of the French election, Euro-American stock markets did indeed fall over these past 5 days (except for the German DAX, which made a small net gain over the May 7th opening)

Results (based on index changes from the opening of the markets, May 7th, to the close of the markets, May 11th)

French CAC: loss of 61 points (3190.18 open 5/07 to 3129 close 5/11) = loss of 1.9 % of value for the 5 sessions

British FTSE: loss of 79.54 points (5655.06 open 5/07 to 5575.52 close 5/11) = loss of 1.4% of value for the 5 sessions

German DAX: slight gain during the 5 sessions, gain of 64 points (+0.2% in value)

Toronto TSX: loss of 111 points (11,805.29 open 5/07 to 11,694 close 5/11) = loss of 0.94% of value during the 5 sessions

USA S+P 500: loss of 15.4 points (1368.79 open 5/07 to 1353.39 close 5/11) = loss of 1.12% of value during the 5 sessions.**

Net average loss of value for Euro-American stock markets over the 5 sessions following the French election = approximately 1% of total stock values.

Note that the French stock market (CAC 40) suffered the largest 5 day loss of value, ie, a loss of 1.9%.



(** USA Dow Jones Industrial index lost 1.67% in value, during this same period of time)
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
Notice that the Euro-American stock markets continue to be negatively affected druing this week of May 14th: although part of this negative impact is due to the situation in Greece, a good portion of the unsettled influences still flow from the French political situation following the Socialist success (Hollande election) and potential econmic impact (even political impact) this might have on other European nations.
 

Yuusha

Well-known member
@dr. farr

Your prediction is very astute, and given that Sarkozy is more favorable to the finance sector than Hollande is, I am not surprised about the stock market declines.

I'm not crazy about Hollande because of his addiction to the growth paradigm (which is a big no-no for ecologists like myself), but he bothers me less than Sarkozy, who was pretty much France's Thatcher and Reagan.

And then well, all the bailouts and austerity measures in Greece were meant to support narrow economic interests at the expense of everyone else. The stock market seems to give a thumbs down whenever a government supports the public interest, whether it's the president of Argentina nationalizing the Spanish oil company Repsol or ordinary Greeks signaling with votes and protests their opposition to the concept of literally starving themselves while the finance sector is getting all the money.

I think more stuff is going on than the Greek and French elections. With the scandals affecting JP Morgan Chase (Jamie Dimon playing on the stock market instead of safeguarding people's money) and Goldman Sachs (Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stone had an interesting report on some of the dubious short sells of Goldman Sachs), people on the stock market have signaled their distrust of big banks.

I'm definitely not an expert on the stock market, but the little I do know makes me distrust it. Risks always seem to be underestimated (the Mandelbrot Set apparently calculates the rises and falls more accurately), not all of the factors are known when a stock rises or falls, stocks go down when policies for the public interest are proposed...But if a company does something wrong, at least there is a reaction of some kind.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
Update on European stock markets:

As of the close of trading on June 1st, European stock markets have continued their decline (which began the day after the Hollandes election, ie, open of trading, May 7th 2012) Other economic factors have, of course, weighed on the European markets over the past several weeks (Greece, Spain, now Italy, which latter country's problems will grow to important proportions over time), nonetheless, the Hollandes election I believe was a trigger (a dynamic trigger) and the ramifications of that election I believe (from the astrological indications I delineated regarding the May 6th election and its influences) has played a significant role in the declines over the past few weeks.

French CAC: open May 7: 3112.47 close June 1: 2950.47 = loss of 162 points (5%)
German DAX: open May 7: 6515.94 close June 1: 6050.20 = loss of 475 points
British FTSE: open May 8: 5655.0 close June 1: 5260.2 = loss of 394.8 points
 
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