Sun square Saturn

MaeMae

Banned
Something else to add -

If you look at the nature of the planets independently, Sun is our creative force - in essence, our production of self. Sun, ruler of Leo, wants to shine and show the world, "this is me." Saturn's interest in "me" has more to do with responsibility, upkeep, management. He controls by holding the reigns. To a positively aspected Sun, Saturn's reigns don't feel as binding. Squares, conjunctions, oppositions (the hard transits) bring a definite awareness of Saturn's pinch.

The warming qualities of Sun become limited, cooled down. Sun doesn't feel it's "normal," and feels restricted.

I think for the Sun person, the square really indicates the need to focus and hone in on a particular quality of self, put it through the ringer, so to say. Maybe a need to really analyze what good the character trait has in your life. Is it working for you? Is it purposeful? Is it allowing you to shine in the ways that Saturn expects it to, with decorum and competency.

We all have these loosely spinning notions of our sun selves that often never really find an anchor in reality, but they are part of all of us. Saturn squaring sun is likely demanding one finds that anchor, makes sure it is greased and able to keep the vessel secure during a storm.

It's definitely a tough aspect, but I know of many people, very successful and competent and respected, who have learned the hard way, through their square of who they are, who they are not, what they are capable and incapable of. Like the Saturn return which comes every 28 years, the natal square might feel like the return life-long. But what an opportunity to really define who you are and who you are not, and not get rutted into complacency.
 

LWalton

Member
MaeMae writes:

...have learned the hard way, through their square of who they are, who they are not, what they are capable and incapable of. Like the Saturn return which comes every 28 years, the natal square might feel like the return life-long.

This is spot-on, insightful and apt. And you know what? It's actually harder to learn the "what they are not" lessons, I think. Those don't start until that first Saturn return...or at least one doesn't recognize them for what they are until after that.

SagMoon & Joy, on the Cancer rising thing: I don't get along with Cancer Suns either. Nor do I care for people who display overly indulgent "mothering" schtuff like baby talk, momming at people, licking things and then wiping other human beings with them, etc.- ick! blech!- and I have serious issues with those who feel that food equals love. I'm extremely emotional myself, but I keep it private or at home; I'm uncomfortable in the presence of mawkish displays of public sentiment.

I've always ascribed this to my poorly placed and aspected Moon, but I wonder if strong Saturn too can tip a person too far over from the maternal axis to the paternal?

We are talking about half an axis here, after all; Saturn/Capricorn operates as half a pair of opposites along with the Moon/Cancer.

For the record, I'm not unCancerian in some ways: I like to cook, I can be mother-hennish about people I work with, and I'm a great hostess. But I'm always removed when I do it, if that makes sense?
 

lazarusx

Well-known member
I'm not sure if there's a huge difference between the square and opposite. But i have my Sun opposite Saturn and i can relate to virtually all that's been said in regards to inferiority, father issues, fear of success and been extremely hard on one's self.

As tough as this aspect is, i have found that because of it.. i've been forced to mature quicker then others, and have a deeper sense of the world around me.. i've been through intense periods of self-reflection.. it almost feels like an obsession to 'understand and better ones self'. I'm on the tail-end of my transiting Saturn sqaure my natal Saturn, and it's been one of the most difficult periods of my life so far.. i've re-evaluated everything in my life and have let go of a great deal.

As intense as i expect my Saturn return to be in years to come; i look forward to the transformation process.
 

byjove

Account Closed
Another Cancer Rising, sorry...:(

I read something shocking recently that less and less astrologers today believe that any Saturn contact brings an 'easy' experience, that even the 'good' contact brings trouble. I've also read that these aspects help when things go wrong - because we're already familiar with the Saturn tests.

I must say that every Sun/Saturn square I've seen made strong, well-turned out people, and people who fight. Some difficult issues with fathers yes, in many cases, but big achievers too. I do think that these people push themselves hard, which frequently brings success that I've seen, but watch your health, would you?

And as for that chart above J......???? (I forget the random digits) that's the most ****&& complicated chart I've ever seen, and I thought I was complicated...

I'm curious how exact each placement is and it's significance, and applying or separating, and if the Sun or Saturn is in a cadent house...
 
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Kannon

Well-known member
I want to explore this aspect; more information from personal experience etc., would be really helpful. So far i only read a few books which included Carter's The Astrological Aspects, and numerous amount of internet sites where the conclusion is almost always optimistic, although Carter's definition is altogether quite unfortunate for the native. In my own life-searching i begun to realise that this configuration is one of the hardest one to sustain and that not a lot can be done to alleviate it, and therefore is of an outmost importance to me. Of course, no interpretation can be sufficient without looking at the chart as a whole, but here in particular, i'm concerned with what the aspect represents as a singular feature in more abstract form. This in turn, hopefully can shed light into how the aspect can be managed throughout one's life, which leads me to another question of whether it is karmic and one has nothing left but to grind their teeth and endure what saturn brings. The question of destiny, karma etc and whether we have the power or volition to change it with the knowledge of astrology can also be incorporated into the discussion.

Looking at some famous people with this aspect i noticed one common factor: their sun was also aspected by mars, not necessarily harmoniously, or was located close to the sun, the sign next to it. It seems only then they are able to 'fight off' the saturn influence. I would imagine it's a competition within themselves, speaking from personal experience. I wouldn't know though to what extent they were/are aware of the influence of saturn in themselves and in their lives however.

many thanks,
Sagmoon

My view is that each aspect has inherent purpose. There is purpose in the energies of any planetary alignment which expresses our unconscious or forgotten intentions for incarnating.

Sun square Saturn can be very constructive; it gets you to develop stamina and learn appropriate and timely use of your life force. The result is real self-esteem rather than surface pride. It is often couched in terms of 'responsibilities' equated with burdens, but this has to do with how you are (not) releasing your energies, how you are responding to the karmic feature that may be contained in the aspect for you. In order to meet the challenge of this aspect you will have to be honest with yourself about any and all feelings of inadequacy and learn what it takes for you to meet your challenges. Taking a burdened posture only draws more expectations and leaves you feeling like others are defining your challenges for you. Taking an 'in charge' posture can dramatically change what comes to you from others of a saturnine nature. If you know who you are and what your purpose is, this aspect can be very constructive. If you don't, you'll still be carrying around the expectations others put upon you, as if obstructions, as 'idle hands are a devil's workshop,' etc, etc, ad infinitum.

Don't cope with this aspect, Make It Yours!
 

student4life

Well-known member
This thread has been very helpful. I have my :cancer::sun: in the 7th square my :libra::saturn::mars: on my MC... I feel it definitely emphasizes struggle and difficulty :ninja:.

I have worked really hard and hopefully it will pay off!

And yes, unfortunately there were "daddy" issues :unsure:
 

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LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
I have Sun square Saturn as well, and in a way... I wonder if it can make a person abnormally self-absorbed. That just popped in my mind because if a Sun square Saturn affect is to constantly outdo yourself and it gives you a certain degree of focus then is there a possibility to become overly focused on yourself and your achievements?

I admit I've experienced such intense self-loathing that it became a struggle to get up every day, in the same breath I wonder if my moon trine Saturn is what helped me get through it.
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
I have Sun square Saturn as well, and in a way... I wonder if it can make a person abnormally self-absorbed. That just popped in my mind because if a Sun square Saturn affect is to constantly outdo yourself and it gives you a certain degree of focus then is there a possibility to become overly focused on yourself and your achievements?

I admit I've experienced such intense self-loathing that it became a struggle to get up every day, in the same breath I wonder if my moon trine Saturn is what helped me get through it.

Hi,

Would be nice to see your chart too.

I guess you're right about self-absorption, in fact it is often stated that this aspect can be self-centered. However, I never thought of it as egotistically so, but rather feeling different from those who don't have a constant critical eye over themselves as it is often the case with Sun square Saturn. Speaking for myself, I simply cannot relax and let go of a certain critical idea in certain situations, regardless of how people surrounding me actually see me at that moment. It can become a weakness if one fails to see anything else about oneself and consequently lead to depression like in my life. Having high aims and expectations that one needs to realise but which don't always materialise are the lessons of Saturn, since it feels that even if one were to achieve a certain degree of success there is still a constant internal struggle to better oneself.

Taking it further I'm wondering that by doing so one can attract in a way a bad karma. Some people may feel defensive (because not all can face up to their own failing) seeing the same weaknesses that they have themselves so clearly displayed in a Sun square Saturn person that they would unconsciously block themselves out thereby making Sun square Saturn person feel different. I understand this is just one way to view this aspect, all criticism is welcome:).
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
I admit I've experienced such intense self-loathing that it became a struggle to get up every day, in the same breath I wonder if my moon trine Saturn is what helped me get through it.

Please expand on this moon thing, as I always wondered if it was Mars, being the main figure, which helps people to overcome something...I might be wrong, it would be great to find out how you understand your moon aspect synthesised with Sun sq Saturn aspect:)
 

student4life

Well-known member
Wow, your 6th house is really full... looks like it's having a block party ;) That aside...
I don't know if it's your sun square your saturn, so much as your sun in leo square your saturn in scorpio that's quite a powerful combo.
Your moon is your emotions, what you inherently need and it's trine your sun so that helps. I would think you would be a more philosophical type person and most likely you date people that are from places other than your birth and maybe a little strange or different (of course not in a bad way)
 

LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
Hi,

Would be nice to see your chart too.

Taking it further I'm wondering that by doing so one can attract in a way a bad karma. Some people may feel defensive (because not all can face up to their own failing) seeing the same weaknesses they have themselves so clearly displayed in a Sun square Saturn person that they would unconsciously block themselves out thereby making Sun square Saturn person feel different. I understand this is just one way to view this aspect, all criticism is welcome:).

Even if they did, I don't think the Sun square person could incur any bad karma from that... I've always thought karma is the outcome of how you reacted to a situation, so the karma incurred varies... ?

Speaking of karma, I noticed how my Sun is squared with Saturn and Neptune, but my Moon is trine with both of those. I wonder what that means as far as lifetime debt goes.
 

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byjove

Account Closed
Oh wow those nice trines to the Moon definitely help! 3 degrees with Neptune and 4 with Saturn! Yes, if either the Sun or the Moon receive difficult aspects, mitigating ones from the other definitely helps!

Also, I've been taught on here to look for a planet/s that have the capacity to heal or ease pain or challenges which are clear in the chart.
 

LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
Oh wow those nice trines to the Moon definitely help! 3 degrees with Neptune and 4 with Saturn! Yes, if either the Sun or the Moon receive difficult aspects, mitigating ones from the other definitely helps!

Also, I've been taught on here to look for a planet/s that have the capacity to heal or ease pain or challenges which are clear in the chart.

Thank you! I was asking them on another forum I'm apart of (not affiliated with this one) and they were telling me basically that the coincidence doesn't matter because the Sun and Moon do not aspect themselves. It was so frustrating 'cause I thought of this forum and how you understand what I'm trying to explain! Anyway... I'm interested to see what SagMoon thinks of it.

PS. How are you able to tell how many degrees each planet is in if you don't have the table below it to help you? I know obviously there's 360 degrees in a circle, but, for example... if Pisces is in the 2nd house at 4 degrees (if that's possible -this is off the top of my head) how/why do you know it's at 4 degrees and not 15 or 16? Hope my question makes sense even though I know it's stupid to ask.
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
Thank you! I was asking them on another forum I'm apart of (not affiliated with this one) and they were telling me basically that the coincidence doesn't matter because the Sun and Moon do not aspect themselves. It was so frustrating 'cause I thought of this forum and how you understand what I'm trying to explain! Anyway... I'm interested to see what SagMoon thinks of it.


Sagmoon thinks that any aspect, which has a harmonious aspect could of course help alleviate the pain caused by other more harsh aspects. However it is the chart as a whole which can tell us how much of a role, or how "active" they are in the nativity. Sometimes the aspects are activated by transits and progressions. Your moon to Saturn could definitely help since your emotional self has a pleasant interplay with Saturn, and since your moon is also exalted in Taurus, it's quite strong by itself. It reminds me how I have a sextile of Mercury to Saturn, where I can mentally direct my attitude, thinking etc to what I want to achieve in life, and so the stable Saturn helps. Hence I can see how you think your trine aspect might've helped you get over difficulties caused by Sun's sq to Saturn. Even so, I'm still curious to find out where do you think Mars stands in all of this, and what effects it plays with the sq aspect?
 

Sagmoon

Well-known member
PS. How are you able to tell how many degrees each planet is in if you don't have the table below it to help you? I know obviously there's 360 degrees in a circle, but, for example... if Pisces is in the 2nd house at 4 degrees (if that's possible -this is off the top of my head) how/why do you know it's at 4 degrees and not 15 or 16? Hope my question makes sense even though I know it's stupid to ask.

I think Byjove meant the degree of which the trine is aspecting between the planets; whether it is a loose aspect or a tight one. So in your case there is 3 degrees separation between Neptune and Moon's trine, 4 between Saturn and Moon, and 1 degree between Uranus and Moon. :)
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
I would like to know more about how other people approach this aspect from personal experience rather than just book knowledge.

Perhaps you would be better off posting on a psychology self-help forum, instead of an Astrology forum.

Natal Charts are as unique as fingerprints, so asking what others might have experienced is like asking if other people have your same fingerprints, which would be absurd.

Why don't you practice Astrology, and try delineating the aspect?

Sun is in his own Sign, Saturn is in the Sun's Decan, so Sun receives Saturn through a mild form of dignity. Saturn is Occidental, and Out of Sect, since Saturn is a Diurnal Planet in an Night Chart, and in a Feminine Sign and House. That would make Saturn contrary to his own Nature, and slightly more Malefic (especially since he is Below Earth).

Your Sun is in a Pitted Degree, so it won't operate very well, even though it is in Sign. Given that is the 2nd House, it'll have some bearing on your income and earning potential.

Also your Moon, the Ascendant Ruler is in an Azieme Degree in the 6th House. Might want to pay attention to your eyes.
 

juicey J.

Banned
Yes astorlogical charts are unique fingerprints, but many if not most aspects and sign positions have something of a general affect (even if its vague) otherwise astrology becomes meaningless and should be thrown in the trash.
 

juicey J.

Banned
Yes astorlogical charts are unique fingerprints, but many if not most aspects and sign positions have something of a general affect (even if its vague and relative) otherwise astrology becomes meaningless and should be thrown in the trash. If a factor can't be isolated it isn't a D@MNED FACTOR PERIOD.
 
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