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  #26  
Unread 06-05-2008, 12:01 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

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  #27  
Unread 06-05-2008, 02:42 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Hello raffaela


He has Venus conjunct Saturn you say. I don't think this has the difficulties at all like the square. A conjunction should mean the energies of Saturn and Venus fuse well. It could mean this man has a serious outlook on love and relationships, that he may well entertain the idea of a love tryst with you but would not easily take the step or cross the boundary to actually make it happen. The morals could be so strong that just knowing you have a partner would keep him from approaching you or the subject of romance. But I think you also need to understand if he had really wanted romantic relations with you, he'd have approached you already. Beeing Virgo myself, I know how backwards we can be. But surely even a Virgo man become competitive and wants to conquer. You are pursuing him strongly, some Virgo men probably need this and you sense it. But I think I can say that most men find it a bit of a turn-off to be chased, and a downright nuisance if the girl don't 'get the message'. I wonder if this is the reason that you don't work at the same department anymore, he was your boss and he pulled the strings quietly to have you removed? Especially after the e-mails.
I'm sure you are right, he likes you and thinks your'e lovely, theres an attraction. That doesn't necessarily mean he wants a relationship, in fact there could be 15 girls he quietly enjoys seeing every day. A lot of men just love having attractive women around, it enriches their daily lives, they entertain pleasant thoughts but not necessarily of the fated love that some of us gals' emotions get caught up in. I really feel for you but I also think you've done all you can and it is up to him. You can't really control the situation further than this, and youv'e been brave to let him know of your feelings.

I'm a little older than you and you will know when your'e in a fulfilling relationship when these crushes don't happen. When you meet someone attractive, and you can appreciate it, but all you want to do is go home and see your partner.

But most importantly, your first Saturn return is around the corner and I get the feeling this why you are in this situation now. Saturn will transit your natal Saturn in Virgo in your 7 House, in a few months, if I have astrodienst right.

With this in mind I would tread with caution, use all your strength to contain the situation and try and look at it all in a sober way, and generally listen out for what Saturn might want to teach you.

All the best

N
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  #28  
Unread 06-06-2008, 06:26 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

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  #29  
Unread 06-08-2008, 08:55 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

OK raffaela, all the best. One would think there would have to be a difference how the conjunction manifests, compared to the square. I'm 'home blind' to the conjunction as my natal chart consist mainly of these, and I really can't tell the difference, the planets are so integrated. I wonder if the conjunction can be terribly harmonious or terribly 'off' its highest expression, as there is no 'checks and balances' that pulls you into line. So maybe a Saturn conj. Venus person would find it very difficult to pinpoint excactly where there problem is.

Cheers,

N
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  #30  
Unread 06-08-2008, 01:02 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecadet
..I would be glad for any input that could help me explore this further.many thanks
Hi Spacecadet,
I've seen this thread much after some very useful advice has already been given to you by the generous community here.

Btw, after briefly studying your chart in my own astro-sofware, in my opinion, and I might well be surprising you now, your Saturn does not really form a tight square to your Venus. In fact, I feel you have a great chart with positive aspects and configs. dominating the chart, and a golden grand trine going out from your MC- your highest point, and involving your Venus.

Had I seen this thread earlier, I too would have mostly said all that Arian Maverick pointed out in her post. However, let me just add - out of my very own personal experience at the hands of tight Saturn aspects in my chart to Moon, Venus, Mars and Pluto (can it get worse!!! perhaps yes) - a person with Saturnian shadows can only get stronger and the key to that is trust in and love of oneself (don't confuse this with narcissism). A pleasant childhood and immense parental love and encouragement did give me a major portion of self-confidence, and as a believer in astrology, I would say, helped me fight those Saturnian shadows, yet I am only just beginning to understand *the importance of seeking the recognition and confirmation for my deeds and my very being mainly from within my own self and not from the outside - from others.* This is the important Saturnian lesson that we must learn in this life in order to understand our own worth and our place on this planet, and not o let our own insecurities overpower ourselves. I guess that is why in Indian astrology (which is far ahead of and much older than western astrology) they call Saturn the great karmic teacher. Saturn, perhaps usually through hardships and suffering, is the one that provides you with the answers to all those questions of 'why' and 'why me'. The answers usually lie within ourselves.

Checked on your transits, and I think, Neptune aspecting your Venus and Saturn is causing disillusionment and disappointments, which makes one question oneself and one's own worth. I would say that even though things connencted to self-worth and self-love might be your (main) issues in life - until those lessons are learned - this whole issue has been brought to the surface by the Neptune transit - but this is temporary- a transitionary phase. Just believe in yourself and remember that not only nobody has the right to judge you, but also nobody can be the yardstick for comparison. I'm only also just beginning to understand and practise this myself.

I hope you do not take my note above to be a preaching session, as it wasn't meant to be one.

Hope I could help a bit
aquarius7000
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  #31  
Unread 06-12-2008, 05:29 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

thanks Aquarius 7000 for your lovely msg! For some reason i didnt get notified of the recent messages so it was a nice surprise to find your email.
I have a grand trine?! I don't consider them if they include an angle but i will today. If it counts then it reflects my desire to be a therapist and the healing angle to the square. Through my desire to help others I heal myself. I have studied different healing methodologies over the past 10 yrs and have always intended to use them professionally to help others but have never thought i was 'fixed' enough in myself to be valid as a practitioner (I still smoke, I bite my nails and occassionally I write long help emails to forums hee hee!!). I have one client now but as Uranus travels accross my 10th and opportunities don't seem to be opening up in my day career (environmental), I feel like the universe is supporting me to move over into 'therapies'. I'm drifting of track but my point is that, my chart leads me there i believe. The air water emphasis, Saturn Leo 2nd, Venus Saturn square, moon Pluto conj etc - As you saw - lots of self esteem issues - are perhaps diffused through that trine. So thanks for stimulating that insight.
Raffaela, your posts confuse and concern me. Apart from body language this guy has given you no signals to say he is interested in seeing you outside of work yet 5 months on you are still very much immersed in him. I know firsthand how consuming Venus Scorpio passions can be and all the moon pluto type aspects between you provide the intensity you seek... But its not enough on its own. You need someone that is just as excited to see you as you are he. This guy has ignored most of your emails. It doesn't matter who he is at heart because he isn't offering to share any of himself with you. Wait it out, get your bearings then fire that ravishingness in a more rewarding direction
x
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  #32  
Unread 06-12-2008, 05:31 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

I am so sorry everyone for the above ... Computer issues! Oops
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  #33  
Unread 06-12-2008, 07:01 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Hi,
I'd just like to add to Spacecadet's piece of advice (post from 12th June), which I completely second, I too think you should hold fire. YOu seem to be immersing in self-analysis perhaps to find answers to those unanswered questions - which actually seem to be a result of this person's lack of interest. Ths sooner you put a stop to this the less disappointed you will be at the end of the day.
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  #34  
Unread 06-13-2008, 12:04 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

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  #35  
Unread 06-21-2008, 09:18 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Thank you for the link Star, it's apprectiated )
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  #36  
Unread 09-20-2008, 09:55 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Hi everyone,
I'm joining to the Ven square Saturn team.I have Venus in Gemini-2nd H,and retro Saturn in Virgo 5th h.I have read all of you and i'm totally agree with all of the info.I constanly feel not good enough in my relations with man or women.With my ex bfs i felt unworthy all the time.It's hard to me to express my feelings , it's hard to my to love somebody without to critisize.I just see the bad things in my relationship.I'm always thinking to much and have doubts if my partner loves me trully, or not.My parents are divorced, and my grandma took care of me till i was 10 years old.Last raltionship lasts 7 years and i broke up because the man i was with didn't have a clear vision about our future.He was insecure like me.I wanted familly , and he doesn't know what he wants after 7 years???
That's my experience of that aspect.I hope that somebody can say something positive about it.

Greetings,
Omnia
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  #37  
Unread 02-11-2009, 10:16 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

I was just passing by this board and I saw your message omnia. I guess no-one has anything positive to say about this aspect unfortunatly which doesn't surprise me. I'm just learning to live with it (or it would be more appropriate to say without it-a loving happy trusting open relationship), and trying to accept that this is the way it is and all I can do is try to love myself more and improve my self-esteem etc...But welcome to our support group. I hope you have found some way to manage the energies a bit better since you last wrote.
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  #38  
Unread 02-11-2009, 10:53 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecadet
I was just passing by this board and I saw your message omnia. I guess no-one has anything positive to say about this aspect unfortunatly which doesn't surprise me. I'm just learning to live with it (or it would be more appropriate to say without it-a loving happy trusting open relationship), and trying to accept that this is the way it is and all I can do is try to love myself more and improve my self-esteem etc...But welcome to our support group. I hope you have found some way to manage the energies a bit better since you last wrote.
The "good thing about it" is that *if* you learn how to overcome what is negative about such an aspect, you have a great deal to teach other people, later, about love and about trust.

I don't have the square. But I have the conjunction in the 12th house, and if I allowed myself to be swayed by all the negative things I've heard about that, I'm not sure I'd have anything positive to say to anyone.

It's true that a conjunction is not a square—or an opposition—and many say that it is easier to "see" the problem or challenge in a conjunction, but in my experience any "hard" aspect between Saturn and Venus indicates a difficult lesson to be learned.
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  #39  
Unread 02-11-2009, 11:11 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Depending where it is and what it is aspecting it can denote relationship that is based on practicality and can endure because of a sense of loyalty rather than great love. It can mean a loved one who is rather patronising and parental and can be a represssive aspect. Also there can be periods of poverty and limitation if connected in synastry or composite charts.
There can be a sense of not being loved or lovable certainly. Due largely to criticism or needing to be proper and responsible.
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  #40  
Unread 02-11-2009, 11:21 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecadet
I was just passing by this board and I saw your message omnia. I guess no-one has anything positive to say about this aspect unfortunatly which doesn't surprise me. I'm just learning to live with it (or it would be more appropriate to say without it-a loving happy trusting open relationship), and trying to accept that this is the way it is and all I can do is try to love myself more and improve my self-esteem etc...But welcome to our support group. I hope you have found some way to manage the energies a bit better since you last wrote.
While it is a challenging aspect it can be one of growth and it has a karmic connection from the past. When you are with someone in that way, there are lessons to be learned about love. It can grow into a mature and enduring love but will never be frivolous and spontaneous. Essentially serious and can indicate one great love and with an older person. There are many scenarios and without squares we do not grow, so welcome it as an aspect of potential depth and maturity.
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  #41  
Unread 02-12-2009, 08:01 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Not feeling attactive, loveable, or even worthy of love? Yep, been there. I've got the Venus sq. Saturn aspect. It's challenging, but I try to tell myself to not believe half of the horrible stuff I say/think about myself.
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  #42  
Unread 02-13-2009, 06:42 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by sallyd
Some old philosopher said 'the stars incline, they do not compel' or some such thing....

You make your own life - irrespective of astrology - don't look at your star chart (or indeed your upbringing) to set the course of your future.

Astrology should give you positive guidance, not set limits on you.

The stars impel they do not compel is the saying. HOwever a Saturn Venus connection is one of feeling unlovable and not being very sociable. It comes from a fear of not being attractive or good enough. HOwever sometimes an older person can give you the confidence to blossom and this aspect can indicate an enduring love that is based on practical matters and
a sense of loyalty. It is not the fairytale romance aspect, that is for sure.
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  #43  
Unread 02-13-2009, 08:13 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire19
The stars impel they do not compel is the saying. HOwever a Saturn Venus connection is one of feeling unlovable and not being very sociable. It comes from a fear of not being attractive or good enough. HOwever sometimes an older person can give you the confidence to blossom and this aspect can indicate an enduring love that is based on practical matters and a sense of loyalty.
I think there is even more hope than that. I agree that Saturn/Venus, hard aspects are linked to just what you said, at least quite often—not feeling worthy, not feeling loved, and so on.

But for those of us who get beyond this, I also think we have a lot to teach other people about having more confidence, looking beyond it, etc.

Which was my point. I also like the idea of finding "enduring love", because that's the flip side of Saturn. You have to wait longer, but often what you wait for is worth the waiting.
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  #44  
Unread 02-14-2009, 09:10 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

I have a stellium in Virgo, squared by Saturn. I've been married twice. I do not have low self esteem, in fact, at an early age when my parents would tell me "you are fat, stupid and ugly, no man will ever love you" (yes, they said that, in an effort to "toughen me up" - that's Saturn for you!) I would look at them and *know* they were crazy. I have, however, loved emotionally unavailable men, but at my age of 50 I sometimes wonder if I hadn't expected too much. I am not lonely, I don't cry in isolation. I have good friends and I feel loved, even though I am not in a personal relationship. Go figure. Plus, the Virgo stellium (Pluto, Merc, Venus, Sun) is in the 5th/6th house, with the sun being the ruler of my 5th. I go out dancing often and have fun. I will say that Saturn has taught me to live a life of INTEGRITY at all costs. There's no fooling Saturn, I can't lie, or cheat, or deceive without paying a huge price, mostly because my Virgo self beats me up. I also have Moon/Nep/Jup in Scorp in the 7th.

I guess if I had to pinpoint where "low self esteem" lives, it may be because I have never had a man in my life who was highly successful. Most of the men were struggling financially, and often were spiritually bankrupt. Again, I had to learn not to take on their financial struggles or expect more from them spiritually then they had showed themselves capable of. Leaving people to themselves is one of the hardest lessons.

I have 2 children. One has Venus trine Saturn. She is a cold person. Aquarian Sun, now 28 years old. I once read somewhere that the low form of Aquarius can behave atrociously and justify it all. My daughter personifies that. She has a grand air trine (moon, saturn, venus) and completely detaches from emotion. No earth in her chart except Chiron in Taurus.

My son, who is 12, is a Cancer. He has a grand square of Venus in 10th opposite Neptune, squaring Chiron in 1st and Saturn in 7th. Yeeee-ouch!!
No earth in his chart either.

Here's what I noticed about my son: He "sets up" Saturn. Example: We are eating dinner. At his age, even though we've had this discussion many times, he will get out of his chair and try to hug me while we're eating. He knows that I have a boundary about that (Cancers need boundaries, otherwise he'd be like a baby kangaroo wanting to be in my pouch all day...). Then he pouts because I won't hug him then and there. When he does things like that I call him on it tell him that he's inviting rejection and that one of the things he'll have to learn is how to better "read" people and when they are available to giving him the love he desires - that it can't be an "on DEMAND" thing. That his chart shows that he will seek out rejection until and unless he realizes that seeks it out in order to teach him to love himself deeply without the need for another person to make him feel loved - which wouldn't work anyway, because......

When I look at him right in the eye during sincere, quiet moments, and tell him that I think he's a really cool kid and that ***I am proud to be his mother***--- he cries. Just wells up and cries. Looking at him directly and expressing love brings up his Saturn stuff like nothing else. I happen to believe that Chiron is wounds from other lifetimes, cellular memory stuff that gets reinacted in this lifetime, and I can really see that when he cries over simply being LOVED. If I am not looking at him and tell him I love him he doesn't react the same way. It's the direct contact that gets him. Also, I have tried to teach him deep breathing techniques because he can be anxiety prone (a Cancer anxious?? Nooooo!!). The first few times I tried to get him to breathe deeply... he cried. The deep breaths brought up something very painful for him, and since he has not had a traumatic childhood by any stretch of the imagination, I can only assume it's past life stuff. But, the depths of Cancer's feelings are unfathomable. He does have Moon/Jupiter in Aquarius in the 5th so it helps him not to succumb entirely to the Watery elements.

Anyway, I just thought it interesting to watch a Saturn/Venus person grow up, knowing what I know about astrology. When I saw his chart 1 day after he was born I nearly cried, because it is not such a great chart, shows suffering. So I have tried to mitigate this as much as possible. He knows a little about his chart but not much because I don't want to set him up to think he is "destined" for misery. Like I said, I have the Virgo planets square Saturn, and I have not been miserable. I have Moon square Chiron too, so I do know about the exquisite sensitivies of Chiron. One day I will teach him more about astrology (he wants so badly to learn!) but I just can't bring myself to do it just yet.

Diane
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  #45  
Unread 02-15-2009, 12:41 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Wow! Does anyone really read such a long screed. Best to just post your chart and keep it a bit shorter. I tend to overlook any post that is this long.
Too much information.
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  #46  
Unread 02-15-2009, 01:26 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Wow! Does anyone really read such a long screed. Best to just post your chart and keep it a bit shorter. I tend to overlook any post that is this long.
Too much information.
Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. I thought "theArmenian" made a very insightful post. AND she divided it into easy-to-read paragraphs
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  #47  
Unread 02-15-2009, 02:56 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

I also read the whole post by thearmenian. I just wish I got see the whole chart and not just part of it, described!

But yes, I thought it was thoughtful. I think a lot in that manner, much of the time. I just severely censor myself.
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  #48  
Unread 02-17-2009, 07:21 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Claire1,

:38:Thanks for playing Saturn and giving a very good example for those whose creativity (venus) is criticized (Saturn). Your smiley is rejected.

To the others who supported my post:

Last edited by thearmenian; 02-17-2009 at 07:24 AM.
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  #49  
Unread 02-17-2009, 08:35 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

I have Scorp Venus opposing Taurus Saturn. I m nearly forty and still struggling with this aspect, escpecially these last years (tr Pluto is conjuncting my sun and tr Pluto squaring my natal Pluto, but these transits that are almost over... yess!!!). It has been tough.

These last 3-4 years I have felt terribly lonely and unlovable and unattractive.... the short relationships I had (plus one 3 yrs longing for someone who was very similar to Raffaella´s crush) made things only worse. I was not loved *felt not loved* by those guys. Every guy I meet seems to wait for his special princess (or has lost that princess) and Im there just to spend some time with and have fun... Im far from the image of their princess, their ideal woman. And they say it all the time. And I feel terribly unadequate. And I cant leave them cos I love them and I suffer.

Was also the pattern of my last crush that I ended a week ago. I had courage to do it... for the first time... to end a relationship that caused me suffering.

I really hate the situation that repeats itself in my life... the guy is emotionally unavailable and practically "uses" you... waiting for his ideal woman to appear or longing for his ideal woman he has lost. And Im there thinking "What the hell I am doing here"? Hate hate hate those situations...

They are probably mirror of my Venus opp Saturn. I put way too heavy burden on my partner, looking for a rescuer, a Christ. I dont love myself enough and Im waiting my partner to reassure me ALL THE TIME. That´s too heavy burden for them and they decide that Im not their "woman".

So now Im taking a break and feel good after all this emotional turmoil

Ps the guys I pick usually have prominent Saturn in their chart (the last one had Venus sq Saturn).

Supporting all others with the same aspect,
JJJ
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  #50  
Unread 02-19-2009, 03:12 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Oh my goodness Spacecadet, that is very strange. I was looking at my son's chart when I came across some unexpected and upsetting hard aspects, one of them the tight Venus Square Saturn. It is exactly like yours! 5H Venus in Scorpio 2H Saturn in Leo. I know very little about astrology but I am learning and would like to be aware of any way I might help my son develop well, and not feel unloved or unliked or unappreaciated or un-anything (except understood). It seems so strange to me that he has the potential to feel lonely or unaccepted at home or as a child. As a mother, I am a very sensitive and loving (though discipline when needed) person. I am a double pisces, my son is scorpio sun leo ascendant. What could this mean? Can anyone give me any ideas as to how this might play out, or how i can help soften this for him? Are there any other interpretations of this aspect? I guess I am feeling a little worried and already guilty of having failed him in some way, even though he only just turned two. Thanks so much for any advice!!! Hope to learn from you all.

Emi
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