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Degree Symbols Discuss your experiences with all symbol systems based on astrological degrees in the chart (i.e., Sabian Symbols, Kozminsky Symbols, etc.): the symbols for the transiting Sun and Moon and the events of your life, the symbols of your natal chart...


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  #26  
Unread 12-09-2013, 10:57 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

Now that I come to think of it...as my osc. Lilith isn't conj the 15th degree of Virgo...

So...for me the question isn't moot... but ya' all can do whatcha do...

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Unread 12-09-2013, 11:07 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

Btw...theV, did you ever find an answer to your question, from some months ago, as to the Ascendant?
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Unread 12-10-2013, 01:05 AM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

well, I find this intriguing...

...as theV gave me cause to quickly check the position of my osc. lilith and Waldemath's Moon, in my natal chart...and rather than dig around in my files I just figured that it would be a lot quicker to just cast a new chart with just those two entities as to anything else extra.

I left the webpage open and to hang with all the rest I had open and was checking out some of the new postings in the Music Playlist thread... found something nice I had to comment on...then went to close some pages and as I was about to close astrodienst... a small voice , in my mind, said: "Cast a chart for this moment and you'll find it to be of interest..."

I did...that was just a couple of minutes ago...
check it out


. the Part of War for the USA is @ 14* 48' 51" and my osc Lilith is @ 11* 15' 48"....

...hmmmm...?
...go figure...

chart attached
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File Type: jpg OV.jpg (87.1 KB, 5 views)
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Unread 12-10-2013, 01:28 AM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

Now, check this out...

I thought back to the day I first proposed any of this on a thread here in the degree symbolism sub-forum and when I thought of calling Clarisse...as one can tell from post #5 at the thread...here's the link:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=70032

That little astro-anomaly I'm so fond of watching just for 'shieks and giggles', r.e. "Parsifal", is in the 15th degree of Virgo... conj. the USA's Part of "uknowhat"...and the I.C. of the event chart is in the 20th of Virgo...which is my Part of Sudden Advancement...


...any questions?


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File Type: jpg Part of War revealed.jpg (84.0 KB, 3 views)
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Unread 12-10-2013, 03:55 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
Well, Clarisse is never wrong about what is and what has been...but...

...I may have gotten the wrong impression as to which of those two she was referring to. I'll have to schedule an appointment with her... I did interrupt a reading she was giving for someone this afternoon and said she only picked up the phone as she could see it was a call from me... [made me feel, kinda special...] ...I wouldn't dare press Her twice in the same day...or month if I can absolutely avoid it. [truth is I get maybe two readings a year from her... and a few times a year I ask her for a "mini-reading" ...i.e. 15mins. of Her time... We are friends...known one another almost 11 years as of now. ...and rather close, as I did write that she is a "spiritual confidante" and I know her pretty well...after all i've studied her chart for over ten years. So,even though ewe are good and close, friends...; I acknowledge these readings as a "business transaction" between us. They're not 'Free' ...not all of them, anyways ...and i don't mind a bit paying whatever she charges.. she's the real deal...She's danm good in fact. Saved my life, actually, verifiably ....at least three times these past 11 years.... and what ever she answers with will be what I will believe in and espouse.

Thanks for your input and your gratuitous acknowledgement.
ptv
I wish i could met her She seems like person with a lot of knowledge about astrology
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Unread 12-10-2013, 04:00 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

There are 4 Lilith

Lilith The asteroid 1181
Osc Lilith (true lilith) H13
Mean Lilith which astro.com displays on the objects opotion
Dark Moon Waldmerth

The right one is the second from what I read in sites "Some people, like Juan Antonio Revilla, believe that she is the most important Lilith and most accurately portrays Lilith’s uncontrollable nature."astrofix.com

and from my observation to some lilithia people including me I think she is the right one

Black Moon in the 1
st

House

Challenges:

The greatest challenges of the shadow are deeply related
to
how we feel about ourselves. The shadow side is ingrained in how we use
our personal energy, what motivates us and our sense of overall well
-
being. Personal appearance or the way we appear to others is often a
major concern. If the shadow is heavily
in control, our behavior patterns
will strongly reflect it. This placement of the Black Moon is intensely
personal and our shadow issues will have a dramatic impact on our lives.

Gift:

The gift of the shadow is the vast amount of personal energy at our
d
isposal. This level of energy can produce fantastic healers and
immensely creative individuals. We can accomplish monumental feats and
have an uncanny ability to turn “negatives” into “positives.”
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Unread 12-10-2013, 04:40 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

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I wish i could met her She seems like person with a lot of knowledge about astrology
She isn't.

As she said to me..."I don't know astrology or anything about it...other than what you tell me about it and I'd rather not know the workings of it as it only will contaminate the process."

She's a tried and true blue Clairvoyant. The best I've ever met and or dealt with personally.
She's online, Clarisse Conner Clairvoyant.
http://www.psychicclarisseconner.com/

The website is so totally cheesey but don't let that fool you... she is the

REAL DEAL

word up
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Unread 12-10-2013, 04:45 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

i wonder if waldemath is like opening up a can of worms.... of which i would gladly eat..

dig in
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Unread 12-10-2013, 04:50 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

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i wonder if waldemath is like opening up a can of worms.... of which i would gladly eat..

dig in
Dig a hole
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  #35  
Unread 12-10-2013, 06:56 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

I think that Waldemath moon is not intense as Black Moon Lilith The true lilith I feel that lilith is crazier and more intense than pluto somehow, they still share some theme together but their energy is diffrent I feel lilith is more hidden and burried

I have Moon contra parallel Lilith: It is known that Lilith manifest more and intensly when it aspect the moon,the person knows for their instense emotion and uncontrolable feminine energy, the mother is someone who is intense and bit of crazy and unstable, the house is also unstable place and unpleasing they might hate going home

Sun conjunct Lilith/North node Midpoint: The north node is where we heading,the futur,the road we take so we can achieve happiness,the north node is risk that we must take,when those two are combined,[the energy of this midpoint from my knowledge could mean that the person is intense and carries an intense emotional self and life,a person who tends to repress their emotions and are toxicated from the inside,a person with strong sexual nature and could be a victim of sexual abuse,a person whi strong psychic energy ,in this lifetime the person needs to learn to deal with their emotion and avoid swallowing them,person needs to develop a healthy feminine expression,wild or nice, and the useful energy of sexuality], I think my sun activate this midpoint and affect the way the person express themselves could in bad way or good way

Sun conjunct Part of fortune/lilith: It mean someone will find their fortune throught exprience the lilithian theme from regneration,sexuality,independence the sun activate this energy

I also Have Mc square Lilith/asc Midpoint, The Asc/Mc the midpoint of identity and self image it could someone identify with lilithian theme

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Unread 12-10-2013, 07:07 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

I also think that Lilith gives an irresistable charisma and ability to seduce,they channel great energy on people that consumes them and lures them,especially if it making with another feminine such as vesta,pallas,hekate,circe midpoint on the ascedant, I would also think the midpoint of Lilith/Charis, Lilith/Peitho gives a strong charisma and personality ability to seduce,the asteroid charis mean charisma,and peitho the seductive
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Unread 12-10-2013, 07:08 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

Those all the info I gathered I hope you enjoy them
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Unread 12-10-2013, 08:46 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

had a girlfriend whose Lilith was on my Moon/I.C. ...she has Taurus Moon [24th degree conj. my Part of False Love] conj. Her M.C. ...spot on... The most astounding Green Thumb I have ever even heard of... much less seen...
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Unread 12-10-2013, 09:01 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

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I think that Waldemath moon is not intense as Black Moon Lilith The true lilith I feel that lilith is crazier and more intense than pluto somehow, they still share some theme together but their energy is diffrent I feel lilith is more hidden and burried

I have Moon contra parallel Lilith: It is known that Lilith manifest more and intensly when it aspect the moon,the person knows for their instense emotion and uncontrolable feminine energy, the mother is someone who is intense and bit of crazy and unstable, the house is also unstable place and unpleasing they might hate going home

Sun conjunct Lilith/North node Midpoint: The north node is where we heading,the futur,the road we take so we can achieve happiness,the north node is risk that we must take,when those two are combined,[the energy of this midpoint from my knowledge could mean that the person is intense and carries an intense emotional self and life,a person who tends to repress their emotions and are toxicated from the inside,a person with strong sexual nature and could be a victim of sexual abuse,a person whi strong psychic energy ,in this lifetime the person needs to learn to deal with their emotion and avoid swallowing them,person needs to develop a healthy feminine expression,wild or nice, and the useful energy of sexuality], I think my sun activate this midpoint and affect the way the person express themselves could in bad way or good way

Sun conjunct Part of fortune/lilith: It mean someone will find their fortune throught exprience the lilithian theme from regneration,sexuality,independence the sun activate this energy

I also Have Mc square Lilith/asc Midpoint, The Asc/Mc the midpoint of identity and self image it could someone identify with lilithian theme
Quote:
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I also think that Lilith gives an irresistable charisma and ability to seduce,they channel great energy on people that consumes them and lures them,especially if it making with another feminine such as vesta,pallas,hekate,circe midpoint on the ascedant, I would also think the midpoint of Lilith/Charis, Lilith/Peitho gives a strong charisma and personality ability to seduce,the asteroid charis mean charisma,and peitho the seductive
Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
had a girlfriend whose Lilith was on my Moon/I.C. ...she has Taurus Moon [24th degree conj. my Part of False Love] conj. Her M.C. ...spot on... The most astounding Green Thumb I have ever even heard of... much less seen...
Your ex girl friend sound lilithian to me she has 24 taurus degree which is associated with lilith and this is a dangerous degree,algol or in arabic الغول are terrfying creature the gouls
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Unread 12-10-2013, 09:11 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

My sun is making a grand trine with asteroid Lilith (1811) and Waldemath dark moon (h58)
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Unread 12-10-2013, 09:26 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

She is identified as "Miss X" in the book I wrote. Asc. conj Pluto ...Spot On...

Amazing woman... the Sabian Symbol for Her natal Moon:
[ibid.]

TAURUS 24 "AN INDIAN WARRIOR RIDING FIERCELY, HUMAN SCALPS HANGING FROM HIS BELT.

KEYNOTE: The aggressiveness of human instincts when fighting for their earthly base of operation.

In the mythology of early America, the Indian represents the 'savage,' close to nature and led by primordial instincts. Alas, our present century has revealed that under far less imperative circumstances so-called civilized man is capable of far more cruel tortures and extermination. This symbol related to a fourth stage seems to imply that violence and aggressiveness are basic components of human nature at the level of the emotions and of a deep-seated identification with a particular culture which insists on regarding men of other cultures as potential enemies.

What is being confirmed here is the value of a group of men's differences from other groups. We are still in the period of 'Differentiation' (Act One of the cyclic process) and the need for a differentiation of human behavior and collective values is still very strong. At the emotional level man apparently still has to believe in VIOLENCE FOR SURVIVAL."

Her mother is half Cherokee... her father half Lappland Finn ...My ma, whom grew up in Oklahoma and was apprx 1/32 N.A., said upon meeting her, "That girl is pure Cherokee". ...well, the Lapp blood does contribute to her appearance as to be so...

You do not want to see her get mad... I guarantee it.
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Unread 12-10-2013, 09:39 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

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Your ex girl friend sound lilithian to me she has 24 taurus degree which is associated with lilith and this is a dangerous degree,algol or in arabic الغول are terrfying creature the gouls
Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
She is identified as "Miss X" in the book I wrote. Asc. conj Pluto ...Spot On...

Amazing woman... the Sabian Symbol for Her natal Moon:
[ibid.]

TAURUS 24 "AN INDIAN WARRIOR RIDING FIERCELY, HUMAN SCALPS HANGING FROM HIS BELT.

KEYNOTE: The aggressiveness of human instincts when fighting for their earthly base of operation.

In the mythology of early America, the Indian represents the 'savage,' close to nature and led by primordial instincts. Alas, our present century has revealed that under far less imperative circumstances so-called civilized man is capable of far more cruel tortures and extermination. This symbol related to a fourth stage seems to imply that violence and aggressiveness are basic components of human nature at the level of the emotions and of a deep-seated identification with a particular culture which insists on regarding men of other cultures as potential enemies.

What is being confirmed here is the value of a group of men's differences from other groups. We are still in the period of 'Differentiation' (Act One of the cyclic process) and the need for a differentiation of human behavior and collective values is still very strong. At the emotional level man apparently still has to believe in VIOLENCE FOR SURVIVAL."

Her mother is half Cherokee... her father half Lappland Finn ...My ma, whom grew up in Oklahoma and was apprx 1/32 N.A., said upon meeting her, "That girl is pure Cherokee". ...well, the Lapp blood does contribute to her appearance as to be so...

You do not want to see her get mad... I guarantee it.

I know a girl who has sun at 24 degree taurus she was kicked out of the school beacause of her violent behavior and she has sun parallel Kaali one of the scariest dark godess I read about
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Unread 12-11-2013, 12:57 AM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

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I know a girl who has sun at 24 degree taurus she was kicked out of the school beacause of her violent behavior and she has sun parallel Kaali one of the scariest dark godess I read about
I believe you mean Kali... Kali is on my altar...
along with a number of others... Yeshu'a, Rama, Hanuman, Tawa, Aton & the bijmantra OM ....
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Unread 12-11-2013, 03:00 AM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

Well, theV, there's seems to be some mounting evidence in favor of osc. Lilith as well.
Clarisse may have only mentioned the B.M. Lilith as for the reason of my natal B.M. Lil is conj. something of note at this time and my osc. Lil is kinda v.o.c. at this time.

Time will tell for sure, though.
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Unread 12-11-2013, 03:58 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

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Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
Well, theV, there's seems to be some mounting evidence in favor of osc. Lilith as well.
Clarisse may have only mentioned the B.M. Lilith as for the reason of my natal B.M. Lil is conj. something of note at this time and my osc. Lil is kinda v.o.c. at this time.

Time will tell for sure, though.
Where is your B.M lilith did you use the one on the additional object option?
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Unread 12-12-2013, 12:16 AM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

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Where is your B.M lilith did you use the one on the additional object option?
I'm referring to that which astrodienst currently has listed as Lilith. It is 3rd in the 'Additional Objects' menu list. It follows Part of Fortune and Vertex and is in turn followed by Chiron and Ceres as the next two in the list. The only Lilith I don't calculate for is the asteroid so named. I alway check Lilith and then write in h13 and h58.

There seems to be some disagreement among Astrologers as to which exactly Black Moon Lilith is of the three other options. As we have been using the terms osc. Lilith and Waldemath's Moon I chose to call this particular one Black Moon, so as to not have it confused with the osc. or Waldemath's...and I don't even give consideration to the asteroid... which I will call by no other name than "Asteroid Lilith".

as to anything more on this or my natals...all was given and explained above.
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Unread 12-12-2013, 04:22 AM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

Okay...I admit it I am truly stumped now...

I checked all available at astrodienst once again to find that there is the Lilith listed as I described above, that is in the drop down menu after Vertex and before Chiron,

..and also...
by requesting

h13, you'll get, Osculating Lilith which is also know as Lunar apogee, ("True" Lilith/ "Black Moon")

request

h21 you'll get, Interpolated Lunar apogee (Lilith) also called "natural apogee"

request

h22 you'll get, Interpolated Lunar Perigee (Priapus) also called "natural perigee"


and if one requests h58 you'll get Waldemath's Moon


Now I'm totally confused...but just to be safe I'm still not going to allow my self to comment on matters pertaining to the 15th of Virgo for awhile... maybe permanently.


So tell me theV, as you seem to know a good deal about all of these, can you explain what it is that comes up with the glyph for Lilith from astrodiensrt ...that which is at 14* Virgo 53' on my natal? ...The fact that I had never known of the h21 and h22 options before this evening and that Priapus has come up at o8* Aries 10' which is the Present position of Uranus, and also happens to be the natal position of my Part of Unusual Events aka Part of Misinterpretation ...and to which neither title I'm convinced as to just what the part derived from formula Asc. + Uranus - Moon is all about... but as it is a Part that involves Uranus in the formula and seeing as how Uranus is presently conj. said Part ...gee? Do i run to the nearest bomb shelter as quickly as possible, leave town immediately in disguise, indulge in arcane rites, not worry about it, celebrate and live large and dangerously...what?
What's your knowledge on this and or any conclusions?

My natal with all the above as mentioned included
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Dave natal including apogee and perigee Liliths,.jpg (86.3 KB, 3 views)
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Unread 12-12-2013, 05:03 AM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

From my understanding BML, black moon, etc etc...
Is the "main Lilith" that most people talk about... The powerful Lilith.. So to speak
It's the half a moon crescent, in the drop down menu...

The one you have at 14 Virgo...

Wouldn't it be much easier if they just renamed the lilith's lol

In synastry I've experienced the mans Lilith conjunct my sun, moon,mercury..

It had the biggest effect on my entire being... Only I can't say if it did for him also...

For what ever reason, to a point I "acted out Lilith energy... As if I could feed from it...
All of my inhibitions went out if the door... I became this seductress..
Which I got addicted to...
I longed for it...
Then I fell, and fell hard... Just overpowered me... Then I felt lost and powerless..
Wanting it, but pushing it away...
Just like it was my own internal hell..
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Unread 12-12-2013, 04:26 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion o ness View Post
From my understanding BML, black moon, etc etc...
Is the "main Lilith" that most people talk about... The powerful Lilith.. So to speak
It's the half a moon crescent, in the drop down menu...

The one you have at 14 Virgo...

Wouldn't it be much easier if they just renamed the lilith's lol

In synastry I've experienced the mans Lilith conjunct my sun, moon,mercury..

It had the biggest effect on my entire being... Only I can't say if it did for him also...

For what ever reason, to a point I "acted out Lilith energy... As if I could feed from it...
All of my inhibitions went out if the door... I became this seductress..
Which I got addicted to...
I longed for it...
Then I fell, and fell hard... Just overpowered me... Then I felt lost and powerless..
Wanting it, but pushing it away...
Just like it was my own internal hell..
There is argue which one should be used,some says that osculating Lilith is the most powerful
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Unread 12-12-2013, 06:03 PM
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Re: Lillith: Understanding its nature and Sabian interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion o ness View Post
From my understanding BML, black moon, etc etc...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion o ness View Post
Is the "main Lilith" that most people talk about... The powerful Lilith.. So to speak
It's the half a moon crescent, in the drop down menu...

The one you have at 14 Virgo...

Wouldn't it be much easier if they just renamed the lilith's lol

In synastry I've experienced the mans Lilith conjunct my sun, moon,mercury..

It had the biggest effect on my entire being... Only I can't say if it did for him also...

For what ever reason, to a point I "acted out Lilith energy... As if I could feed from it...
All of my inhibitions went out if the door... I became this seductress..
Which I got addicted to...
I longed for it...
Then I fell, and fell hard... Just overpowered me... Then I felt lost and powerless..
Wanting it, but pushing it away...
Just like it was my own internal hell..


I can relate, Lion O ness... i agree that THAT lilith seems to have a strong effect. I think the others might too, each in their own little ways. everything is very fine tuned and very very subtle when you get past the major planets. it's why there is such variation between people, events, the motion of the stars and the cause and effect of everything, etc... etc... \


My Bf's lilith is conjunct my sun. also, my mars and sn are conjuncting his sun and saturn.


a professional astrologer said to me, "oh, it's karmic, you two have done this before, no worries." (like that tells me anything ) he said that often the saturn person would be intimidated & scared by the mars person.. the mars person would dominate... but that's not so... he's crazy, absolutely nuts in a good way and determined to be himself but extremely loyal, (mars conj uranus in scorpio square venus & nn in leo) i couldn't control him if i tried... but i don't want to!


maybe the lilith/luminary conjunction means acceptance of that persons craziness.. (whether it be life long or a fling or whatever..) everyone has some oddities in them somehow...


so, now i looked at those other two parts that ptv mentioned and i noticed something odd... (what in the world does "natural apogee" and "natural perigee" even mean?)


i have three liliths, all surrounding my mc.... the natural apogee one 3 degrees away at 3.27 leo, the astrodienst drop box lilith right on mc at 6.03 leo, and osc. lilith 6 degrees away at 12.03 leo


3 of them.. 3 6 and 12... on the "HOW"... howwwww strange....

but.... everything has it's purpose and we make due with what we are given, the best way we know how, as it's all a beautiful gift
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