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  #1  
Unread 06-09-2010, 02:29 PM
Catatonia Catatonia is offline
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Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

Everyone who's had this transit please speak up about your experiences. Obviously, a square to ones' ascendant is also a square to their descendant, and either an opposition to the Midheaven as well as a conjunction to the IC (and vice versa).

It would only be fair if you also tell us your Ascending sign and the sign Pluto was in.

Thanks,

Catatonia

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Unread 06-09-2010, 02:57 PM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

OK, I'll go first.

I had tr Pluto squaring the Asc-Desc axis in the early 1980's....................
Pluto was late in Libra in the 10th, squaring Capricorn Asc and Cancer Desc.

I just checked Robert Hand's Planets In Transit to see if what I experienced was `typical', and it seemed that it was.
At the time I was married, with 2 young children, living in a small country community, having left my job when my first child was born. I'd been `waiting' for the year or two since my eldest had started school for some kind of `sign' as to what I should do next. The inner restlessness had begun when Pluto crossed my MC a few years earlier, but I chose - in my Neptunian way - to ignore this, as on the surface, my life was quite good.
When this transit - the square to the axis - became exact I suddenly realised how I'd been short-changing myself - my marriage, my life choices, the group of people I ran with. I recognised I'd settled for what I thought was right for me, but it just didn't fit me any more.

When Pluto entered Scorpio, I was able to make some concrete plans for myself, and so the changes followed.
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Unread 06-09-2010, 03:15 PM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

Thanks very much for contributing, R4ven. Without getting too personal, would you please share with us some of the changes you experienced during the transit? You mentioned restlessness--did you feel loss of control until you followed what Pluto wanted you to do, or did you feel YOU overpowered Pluto? What forces did you feel were "controlling" to you? How was your husband? Your kids?

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Unread 06-10-2010, 04:14 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

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Originally Posted by Catatonia View Post
Thanks very much for contributing, R4ven. Without getting too personal, would you please share with us some of the changes you experienced during the transit? You mentioned restlessness--did you feel loss of control until you followed what Pluto wanted you to do, or did you feel YOU overpowered Pluto? What forces did you feel were "controlling" to you? How was your husband? Your kids?

Catatonia
Interesting question, Catatonia, and very relevant, given this is essentially a question about Pluto.

I have a Sun-Pluto conjunction natally, and until that time I had been content to go with the flow of what others expected of me. That is, I had been content to be controlled, and was not fully aware that this was what had been happening. I think at the time of the Pluto square axis, I began to wake up to how this control of me worked, and I didn't like what I found. I began to feel used, and that was not a nice feeling at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catatonia
did you feel loss of control until you followed what Pluto wanted you to do, or did you feel YOU overpowered Pluto?
I was definitely at a loss as to what was actually going on, although I felt Pluto's pull for me to make changes which suited me. This was difficult to do, but eventually I had to do this - for my own survival. And as to me overpowering Pluto? I've tried that on a few occasions, but it never works. Eventually I left the town and my marriage - took my kids, who were still young enough to just go with the flow.

My former husband has Scorpio Asc, so could not see what I was on about, and also could not understand why what made him happy did not necessarily make me happy. Definitely a clash of values, which took a number of years to surface for us.
(Just to flesh out this particular picture, with Sun-Pluto conjunct on my natal, my father was a Scorpio Sun, and what he said was `gospel', and not to be questioned. With a quite Scorpionic husband, he thought he'd hit the jackpot when he met me, because I helped him create whatever he wanted - having watched my mother do that for my father. When I reached the square to my axis, I thought, "not any more!")
At the time I left my marriage not only did I have a lot of opposition from my husband, but my own family members and my closest friends. It was a very difficult time, but that was 2 years or so after Pluto had squared my Asc-Desc axis. (At the time I left there were a whole lot of transits and progressions which demanded change, not the least of which was Progr Moon square natal Saturn.)

Leaving my marriage was one of the hardest things I have ever done - chiefly because I had no-one at all `on my side'. Everyone I knew and whose opinion I valued was against what I did, and they all stood at a distance and watched, hoping I'd fail. I know that this was about them, but at the time I felt very alone.
The reason I mention this is that the sheer power of Pluto's square to the Asc-Desc axis was such that I eventually had to step way out of my comfort zone, and act in a way totally uncharacteristic for me up until that time.

I hope this answers your question. It's a bit garbled as I read it.
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Unread 06-10-2010, 01:26 PM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

Wow, that was a fantastic answer. And I'm very sorry you had to experience the pain, but you obviously had to--to get where you are today. You are very strong!

If you don't mind me asking, which signs are your Saturn, Moon, Venus, and Mars in? And also please tell us your Sun Sign. (I'm asking about the angles--Capricorn Rising, Cancer Descendant, Libra MC and Aries IC) In fact, post your chart if your prefer..it's easier

(I'm fascinated)

Catatonia

Last edited by Catatonia; 06-10-2010 at 01:30 PM.
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Unread 06-10-2010, 01:51 PM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

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Originally Posted by Catatonia View Post
In fact, post your chart if your prefer..it's easier

(I'm fascinated)

Catatonia
My chart is below my signature
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Unread 06-10-2010, 02:37 PM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

That's so interesting! Pluto conjoined your Mars-Neptune conjunction when it went over your Midheaven too.

Now Pluto is in your 1st applying to your Ascendant! OH MY! (I use whole signs)

Not to mention it's OPPOSING your Moon-Venus!

What has been happening with Pluto entering Capricorn and opposing your Venus, and now appying to your Moon? Are you still married/remarried? Venus rules your MC and 5th, so you were telling me about your troubled son? YOWZA!
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Unread 06-13-2010, 08:08 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

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Originally Posted by Catatonia View Post
What has been happening with Pluto entering Capricorn and opposing your Venus, and now appying to your Moon? Are you still married/remarried? Venus rules your MC and 5th, so you were telling me about your troubled son? YOWZA!
I'm finding Pluto's opposition to my Venus is laying bare my inner beliefs and attitides towards men, and my relationships with them until now - which is in essence an issue based in my beliefs about my feminine role in relationships. These are beliefs passed down to me from my mother, and probably originating with her own mother.

Have never remarried. Have never wanted to. Being married was the most powerless I have felt in my entire life. All to do with my expectations and acceptance of certain behaviours as being `normal'.
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  #9  
Unread 06-13-2010, 03:50 PM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

Pluto squared my ascendant in march. Natal asc at Aries 5'17. (see notes below)

As it stationed at 5'22 Capricorn in my 10th house many things began to happen though it must be said a lot has been happening in general over the last year I would say.

June 2009 diagnosed with double hernia
June 2009 diagnosed with skin cancer
July surgeries
July moved mother out of home and cleaned out (huge deal)
Sept 2009 relationship of 14 years came to an apparent end or end I should say

As Pluto stationed again in April my car was struck by a tire that came off of someones vehicle as they were driving down the opposite side. It hit my drivers side and was just shy of hitting the windshield. It totaled my car.

As it continued to station several things have happened to numerous to talk about involving relationships involving confrontations, deep seated emotions, dealing and wrestling with my own agitated state, dealing with authorities over my daughters issues and therapy for her.

My natal chart is attached to below my signature. See how pluto opposes natal mercury in the 4th house of home and hopefully not endings. !

Now this is interesting and maybe something will tell me more. I have been dabbling with my birth time and through events, solar arc etc have adjusted my birth time by one minute which changes the ascendant by 23 minutes. My birth certificate has 1'21 on it which would put the asc at 5'40 which means Pluto has not quite crossed it yet.
But obviously came quite close. The actual transit would not officially occur until Jan 2011. It will retrograde over this point, station and go direct all over the 2011 year.
It will turn retrograde just a few minutes shy of a quincux to venus and mars ruler of first and 7th.
So I guess I will fill you or whoever might be interested on events next year (hopefully be here to tell the tale as pluto rules my 8th house) thus will have some certainty over exact time of birth by a minute no less

But pluto this close to asc has been an internal revolution, struggling with suspicion, paranoia, agitation, having to defend my home, sudden abrupt changes, struggling with my demons so to speak...my hidden fears...
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Unread 06-13-2010, 03:59 PM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

WOW CASSANDRA! I hope you and your family are okay!
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Unread 06-13-2010, 08:27 PM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

I am still expecting Pluto transit ASC.
Few months to go.

BUT...Pluto is my mate by now




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Unread 06-14-2010, 01:23 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

Catatonia, I can tell you now that what I notice more than anything is my own inner turmoil that I do not know what to do with or reconcile.

My family is fine. I was the only one in the car. It was somewhat of a miracle and everyone says someone was looking after me.

If you are about to go through a square to the ascendant watch for the conflicting energies. For me it is increased as I have north node in the 7th the desc and south in the 1st house thus my karma needs me to grow to a more libra harmony and partnership vibe while I struggle with the Aries warrior independence.

But it is much worse really. Pluto is also sitting on my natal saturn so again I have this suppression and implosion feeling. Yoga helps exercise helps
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Unread 06-14-2010, 02:04 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

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Pluto is also sitting on my natal saturn so again I have this suppression and implosion feeling. Yoga helps exercise helps
Yes, I was about to comment upon Pluto's conjunction to your natal Saturn - this forces you to let go of things - in the material world, mainly, but perhaps this includes your own expectations of how your life has to be.

Also given tr Pluto is being moved in on by Uranus-Jupiter, and then tr Saturn, then this square of Pluto to your Asc-Desc axis is to be more dramatic than most. Pluto is all about power/powerlessness, so your experiences will have that as an underlying feeling. And with tr Pluto being in Capricorn, `The Authorities' will feature for you (just as `The Other' featured for me when I had my tr Pluto in Libra, squaring my Asc-Desc). And just as The Other was a reflection of me, The Authorities will show you something of your own Inner Authority.
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Unread 06-14-2010, 04:26 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

Catatonia, tr Pluto (Sag conjunct IC) squared my Ascendant (26°Virgo) late December 2006. Natally I have Pluto (2° Libra 1st house) conjunct my Ascendant.

Pluto brought about a radical change in my life, in that *I* was the driving force behind my family's move to a new country - and we're talking a move of 11,000 km.

I'll also add that I wasn't studying astrology at this stage and so the energy to relocate was purely primal and not forced on my behalf to live as per my transit / chart.

ETA: tr Pluto made a perfect sextile to natal Mercury too
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Last edited by 07.Re; 06-14-2010 at 04:29 AM. Reason: added info
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Unread 06-14-2010, 04:31 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

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Pluto brought about a radical change in my life, in that *I* was the driving force behind my family's move to a new country - and we're talking a move of 11,000 km.
07.Re, can you relate your `primal desire' to move/relocate to the Pluto issue of power over vs powerlessness?
[This is what I am having to address these days whenever I am looking at Pluto's energy in my own life.]
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Unread 06-14-2010, 04:38 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

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07.Re, can you relate your `primal desire' to move/relocate to the Pluto issue of power over vs powerlessness?
[This is what I am having to address these days whenever I am looking at Pluto's energy in my own life.]
Hmm...I'll have to give it some thought before I can answer (and my Libran stellium is dying to add... "if thats okay..." )
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Unread 06-14-2010, 04:41 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

I'm thinking that the way I should have expressed my question is:

"Did your drive to move your family originate with a sense of powerlessness......... i.e. was it a drive to empower?" Not over your family - because in a way they are an extension of you - but in relation to your living conditions in your country of origin?
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Unread 06-14-2010, 04:47 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

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I'm thinking that the way I should have expressed my question is:

"Did your drive to move your family originate with a sense of powerlessness......... i.e. was it a drive to empower?" Not over your family - because in a way they are an extension of you - but in relation to your living conditions in your country of origin?
Okay thats an easy one to answer and the answer is a resounding "yes"...

Its ironic really, now that you've got me to think about it in terms of powerlessness vs power .... our living conditions rendered us powerless to change what was happening around us, yet from within, I was able to use power to change *that* which made us feel powerless and take back ownership. Oh dear, I hope I'm making good sense here.
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Unread 06-14-2010, 04:54 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

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Okay thats an easy one to answer and the answer is a resounding "yes"...

Its ironic really, now that you've got me to think about it in terms of powerlessness vs power .... our living conditions rendered us powerless to change what was happening around us, yet from within, I was able to use power to change *that* which made us feel powerless and take back ownership. Oh dear, I hope I'm making good sense here.
Yes, perfectly, and very well expressed.

I am endeavouring to view Pluto in this way from now on.
i.e. the initial feeling of total powerlessness over one's life generally leads us towards a creative solution - and in doing this and carrying it out and following it through, our power is then re-accessed.

I love the way in which Pluto works!!

We Plutonic types have a need to use Pluto constructively - as you did when emigrating - rather than allowing it to overwhelm. It seems to be a learning curve.
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Unread 06-14-2010, 05:02 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

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Yes, perfectly, and very well expressed.

I am endeavouring to view Pluto in this way from now on.
i.e. the initial feeling of total powerlessness over one's life generally leads us towards a creative solution - and in doing this and carrying it out and following it through, our power is then re-accessed.
Glad to hear my explanation was sensible...

I'm thinking that perhaps square aspects don't always bring negative energy and that they could well provide us with the necessary momentum to change what needs changing .... whether that means finding a new job, escaping an abusive relationship or even emigrating.
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Unread 06-14-2010, 05:07 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

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We Plutonic types have a need to use Pluto constructively
Just as an off side to this discussion......... because I have Pluto-Mars conjunct Ascendant, I sometimes like change for the sake of change, which is obviously not to everyone's 'cuppa tea'. Pluto wants transformation and Mars provides the energy.

So for me, I have to be vigilant that I don't use this energy negatively.
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Unread 06-14-2010, 05:25 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

Some excellent points, 07.Re.

I particularly like:

"I'm thinking that perhaps square aspects don't always bring negative energy and that they could well provide us with the necessary momentum to change what needs changing .... whether that means finding a new job, escaping an abusive relationship or even emigrating."

The key in working with Pluto is in recognising just this which you describe above.

A Pluto square to Asc-Desc will bring into the spotlight how powerful/powerless we feel in relation to our relationships and/or our `interface' (hate that word- so phony!!) with the world in which we live. The key to `fixing' this is to work towards bringing back the balance, and in so doing we re-connect with our inner power. What you have described sums this up well.
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Unread 06-14-2010, 05:29 AM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

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So for me, I have to be vigilant that I don't use this energy negatively.
Yes, that is very true.

With Sun-Pluto conjunction in my natal I have to watch myself for a tendency towards steam-rolling others. When I get an idea of what has to happen, I tend to want to make it happen yesterday, and yet others who are also involved may want time to think about things. I am learning that timing is also very important, and that a delay will not necessarily destroy the balance of the Universe!!
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Unread 06-14-2010, 12:51 PM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

I wonder if the strength of the domicile lord has anything to do with how we experience/how well we come out of it.

For example, if someone has their Ascendant at 5* Aries and Mars at 8* Libra, that puts Pluto in a tight square to the Ascendant also a square to the Ascendant's ruler, Mars in Libra. However, Mars is in detriment in Libra and doesn't have the resources to beat Pluto away. Does Mars succumb? Is Mars consumed?

Isn't it true that how well a point in the chart reacts to an aspect depends on its ruler?

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Unread 08-15-2011, 01:56 PM
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Re: Transiting Pluto square Natal Ascendant

This thread has been very enlightening ! I am going through this transit ... Pluto conjoined my IC squaring both Ascendant and Descendant, opposing Midheaven. There have been all kinds of power/powerlessness issues already, in the personal and professional spheres. But I 'feel' powerful and confident now (through still in the middle of the transit) that somehow I'll pull through Pluto is in my 12th (conjoined my Libra Asc.)
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