Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Traditional Astrology

Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) and excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Unread 02-04-2019, 04:15 PM
Chrysalis's Avatar
Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Do not disturb
Posts: 6,047
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
This is how I would approach your profection year.

Aries is the profected ascendant, so Mars is the ruler. [b]You do not profect everything in the chart when you profect the ascendant[/b[. So we'll take the natal placements as it stands at your moment of your birth.
I thought as the chart is rotated 1 sign each year, this places the natal planets in different signs for the year ?
Quote:
Aries is 5th sign, so 5th house profection year. Apart from the 5th, it also rules the 12th (a "bad" house). It is located with Venus and Pluto in the 11th sign - Libra. It is in it's detriment and out-of-sect so this is a Mars that is very harmful.

By my view, there are very solid correspondences between these placements and the new year attack that you experienced. Mars rules both the 12th and 5th house in your chart - hidden enemies, mental affliction and partying/celebration. The location of Mars is in the sign of Libra - a Venusian sign which brings in sexuality. Libra is also a violent human sign - harming of people. If you want to add Pluto to the mix*, what you get is coercion, force and rape. The location of this tripe conjunction of Mars/Venus/Pluto is located in the 11th house - another celebratory house. This attack occurred when on the night of new year's eve.
Yes and its amazing how mars was around 1.30am UK time just entering Aries, and at this same time moon was then exactly square my mars/puto, and this is most likely the time of the assault, going on what i know so far.
Quote:
*Even if you don't use Pluto, Venus/Mars is traditionally seen as an aspect of lechery and sexual debauchery, and the pattern would still hold true if Pluto wasn't added. Pluto does add emphasis to the event, and it's significations actually result in a stronger correlation between the event and astrological markers.

Since you've indicated this publicly, I don't think it would be too revealing to say - this isn't the first time you were sexually abused in your life. If you were to look at the year this happened to you previously, you might find the same markers cropping up for that period.
The only reason ive mentioned it on here, was because of the prediction that was given to me about something happening.
No its not the first time, this is now the 3rd, the other times didn't happen in any other 5th house perfection years though. And i can't remember the exact ages now.

__________________
Y@ur 3ner9y intr@duc3s 7ou B3fore y@u even sp3@k

Last edited by Chrysalis; 02-04-2019 at 04:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Chrysalis For This Useful Post:
conspiracy theorist (02-04-2019)
  #27  
Unread 02-04-2019, 04:17 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 47,086
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post

I'll wait for the moderators to do their appointed duty.

I ignore the yapping of watchdogs.
good idea
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
conspiracy theorist (02-04-2019)
  #28  
Unread 02-04-2019, 04:24 PM
conspiracy theorist's Avatar
conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sky walking
Posts: 13,591
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
I thought as the chart is rotated 1 sign each year, this places the natal planets in different signs for the year ?
That is if you profect the whole chart at the same time. In this case, it's only the ascendant that is being profected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Yes and its amazing how mars was around 1.30am UK time just entering Aries, and at this same time moon was then exactly square my mars/puto, and this is most likely the time of the assault, going on what i know so far.
A similar thing happened to me in the example that I shared. On the day that Saturn changed signs to Capricorn I was officially signed on for the job. The Sun/Saturn conjunction was right on Venus on the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
The only reason ive mentioned it on here, was because of the prediction that was given to me about something happening.
No its not the first time, this is now the 3rd, the other times didn't happen in any other 5th house perfection years though. And i can't remember the exact ages now.
That configuration wouldn't only be operative in a 5th house profection year, though. It could be operative if you were in a 12th house, 6th house or 11th house profection year, for example. And that's only keeping in mind rulership of the houses and the conjunction without any additives attached.
__________________
The worse the conditions of life, the more productive the Work, always provided you remember the Work.
- Gurdjieff

Djentleman
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to conspiracy theorist For This Useful Post:
Chrysalis (02-04-2019)
  #29  
Unread 02-04-2019, 04:29 PM
dd78's Avatar
dd78 dd78 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: life sentence in a solitary confinement
Posts: 311
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
For the first question, both. LOY is influential because it rules the profected ascendant and any influences coming to or from the time lord will have bearing on the events of the year. In the example, Venus was the ruler of the 11th sign, but it also rules the MC, 6th sign and is located in the 2nd sign. The aspects that Venus has to other planets and the influences that these bring also has relevance to what occurred in the year. So approach the LOY comprehensively.

The rationale applied here is also relevant to other systems of timing. Here is some information related to two timing techniques that I mentioned previously - circumambulation and firdaria.

https://www.demetra-george.com/Helle...Procedures.pdf
http://www.academiadeastrologia.com/...s/Firdaria.pdf


ALL clear!

Thank you, CT!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dd78 For This Useful Post:
conspiracy theorist (02-04-2019), JUPITERASC (02-04-2019)
  #30  
Unread 02-04-2019, 04:40 PM
Chrysalis's Avatar
Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Do not disturb
Posts: 6,047
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

That configuration wouldn't only be operative in a 5th house profection year, though. It could be operative if you were in a 12th house, 6th house or 11th house profection year, for example. And that's only keeping in mind rulership of the houses and the conjunction without any additives attached.

Yes the childhood one, im sure i was about 11+ years old, so this would have made it a 12th house profection year, time lord would have been mars again. I think the following one was a 6th house, which would have been a venus time lord year.
__________________
Y@ur 3ner9y intr@duc3s 7ou B3fore y@u even sp3@k
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Chrysalis For This Useful Post:
conspiracy theorist (02-04-2019)
  #31  
Unread 02-04-2019, 04:54 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 47,086
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd78 View Post

Thanks for this info
However, I`m still not sure how to approach LOY
- via the lens of the natal house the profected AC falls in (no natal planet resides in this house),
or via the lens of the houses the LOY rules in natal ? Is the rationale applied here similar with the other timelord systems,
like ZR, Firdaria etc.?
more detailed comment using an example
Time Lords by BobZemco and Konrad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad View Post
Hi tsmall,

I'm not really sure what you're asking, so I'll just give you my perspective on this. Please note I use the Babylonian fixed zodiac, so the positions are different than you have listed. Normally I would refer to horary as you have done to find the result of specific court cases, but the act of being in one is quite clearly shown in the natal chart, though I would be hesitant to predict an exact outcome based upon it alone.

I use a hierarchy of Firdariyyah -> distributions -> profections when looking to one's annual happenings.


For the sake of brevity, I am not going to dig out the quotes which support my delineations, but I will do so if requested.



First we need to verify this sort of event being present in the nativity. The Sun is in the MC sign of Libra, so his triplicity lords are Saturn and then Mercury. Valens states that Mars in aspect to either of these two will bring enimities, violence and bloodshed during their times. I think a court-case is within Mars' realms of possibility! The Ruler of the Nativity (as translated by Holden in Rhetorius) is the domicile lord of the Sect Light (I also look to the bound lord) and this is Venus in the 12th, while Jupiter is the bound lord, also in the 12th and both are square Mars. Finally, Venus is applying to Mars within the same bounds, and she has rulership of his status (Sun) and the degree of the MC. We can see that Mars is the culprit here.

He was in a Saturn/Jupiter Firdaryyah period when this really kicked off (if I am reading it correctly that April was the beginning of this), but Saturn took over from the Moon as major lord in November 2011, so we must consult this chart first.



Natally, Saturn is retorgrade in the 6th and dominated by Mars. He is received by Venus, and this does provide support but Mars is really going to impinge himself upon Saturn's significations. Saturn himself shows management of other's resources, hard labour, illness, poverty, secrets etc. and he is determined towards the native's status, work, finances and general support through his rulerships and his aspects. In the 2011 revolution, he specifies us towards his reputation and his work through the rulership of the 10th and MC signs, and also the Sect Light of that chart, so this repetition shows us where to focus this next Saturn period. He is also transiting the natal 10th sign at this time if we missed the first work/reputation repetition. I was a little relieved when I saw Mars in aversion to this 2011 Saturn but upon checking his dodekatemoiria, I saw it falls at 2 Leo which means he is sharing bounds with Mars, again a repetition that you don't really want to see. Other than that, he is in much better state in this revolution which Abu Ma'shar tells us tempers the harm his natal position would have caused otherwise.

In the 2012 revolution, Jupiter takes over from Saturn in May of 2013, so we should do what we just did for Saturn, for Jupiter. Natally, Jupiter is in the 12th sign opposed Saturn and square Mars while conjoined Venus. His two real functions here are being the ASC lord and being a Ruler of the Nativity. I'm sure we all know the significations of the 12th sign, so I needn't go too deply into that. Again, note the influence of Mars. Also when two planets aspect each other, their times of sharing the Firdariyyah activate that aspect, so this opposition to Saturn across the axis of enimities both secret and open is telling.



Immediately, it should be noted we have a Mars oppsoition and we can now really see the true influence of Mars at this time. Mars also ruled the MC sign and Jupiter the 6th and both are in aversion to them showing instability in these matters.

The ASC is currently directed to Venus/Aquarius and I won't spend much time on it since it is in a similar state to Jupiter, but she is transiting the natal 10th, just for a little repetition. More notable is that the ASC reached the conjunction of Mars in March of 2013. So if we weren't listening the first few times, Mars is making sure you hear him now.



The profection tells a similar story: it comes to Taurus who is being overcome by Mars while its lady Venus is square to Mars and is Ruler of the Nativity making her important for taking the life where it is meant to go. Looking at the revolution, you have the Firdariyyah minor lord as well as the Moon transiting the profected ASC with Mars opposed (added to which the Moon is applying to Mars in the same bounds) The Moon also rules the East of the Year, so again not the best. This sort of repetition is what we are looking for from the natal chart down to the profected ASC each year. It is definitely a Martial kind of year for your husband, and one focused on enimities and reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post

Re: Profections and revolutions
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall
It's enough to make your head spin.

The key is organization. I would like to help people with that, but being disorganized myself, that's probably not a good idea. I used to go from House-to-House, but that got to be tedious, so I started focusing only on activated Planets, and that works a lot better (for me).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall
I already know that Saturn is active in his chart because this is a sixth house profection year for my husband and while Saturn is not the Year Lord (Mercury gets that honor) Saturn is important because natally he is in the 6th.

Okay.

The ruler of the Sign in which the Profectional Ascendant falls is activated and becomes the Year Ruler.
Any Planets in that Sign are also activated, because they are disposited (ruled) by the Year Ruler.
I know most profect in 30° increments, and that's fine, but
I profect by Oblique Ascension using Diurnal Hours.
For example, if the Ascendant is 15° Sagittarius 45' then using 30° it will fall at 15° Capricorn 45' b
ut profecting by Oblique Ascension using Diurnal Hours, it falls at 7° Capricorn 56'.
Continuing, 4° Aquarius 01' then 6° Pisces 35' all the way until you get to 15° Gemini 45' (7th House).

As you can see, there isn't a whole lot of difference, but
occasionally you'll find charts where the Profected Ascendant will fall exactly on a Natal Planet or a Lot...
and that's really intense, just as a Solar Return Planet falling exactly on the Profected Ascendant.
Anyway, one other thing to clarify is that it is the Sign that is activated, not the House.
The Profected Ascendant has activated Capricorn, which means the House holding the Sign of Capricorn in your Solar Return is activated, and as you can see, it is Capricorn that sits on your 2nd House/Sign.
Any Planets falling in the Sign will play a key role.
I can't remember who, but someone says that Planets transiting the Sign of the Profected Ascendant are important, but I cannot trace its precursor. No else says it (Zael and ibn Ezra certainly don't), and in practice, I haven't seen a thing out of it, but if people want to explore that, go right ahead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall
Here is what stands out to me.

In the radix chart Saturn is the ruler of the ASC, as well as the Almuten of the 2nd house. I believe, though I'm probably incorrect, that when a planet is "activated" it activates the houses it rules as well as the house it is in. So 1st, 2nd, and 6th, with the 10th house as well since Saturn is the exaltation ruler of Libra.


Yes, I would consider the Exalted Sign for the Year Ruler.
Note that in the SR Chart, Saturn in Scorpio is in aversion to Libra, but he can see Capricorn and Aquarius.
If a Planet is not in its own Sign, then is important to be connected by sextile, square, trine or opposition. That allows the Sign Ruler to manage the affairs in that House, even though he isn't physically there. It's like you can leave home, but still be connected: you can call or e-mail, and a family member there, or another you put in charge (the house-sitter, baby-sitter, dog-sitter) can take your instructions and carry them out.

If you have no connection to your home, then you really aren't in control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall
The back story is on the other thread, but already we can see a theme emerging. 1st, 2nd, and 10th are easily understood, but the 6th sort of leads you to want to think illness.

I'm not sure that's it. Over time, Signs and Houses kind of got to be used interchangeably, even though they aren't necessarily the same thing. For Solar Returns, it's actually the Sign that comes to the Ascendant, not the House.

So, the Profected Asendant activates that Sign in your Natal Chart, plus your Solar Return Chart, and then the Sign that comes to your Solar Return Ascendant becomes activated in your both your Natal and Profectional Charts. And of course the Ascendant Sign in your Natal Chart is always activated in the Solar Return Chart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall
So insert first question. Each house means several different things and al-Qabisi says that we are to look at the triplicity rulers to determine how they will fare. The 6th house represents the native's illness, slaves, and beasts. The 1st triplicity ruler tells about illness, the second about slaves and domestics, and the third what will come to the native because of those. Is there a way to "fine tune" the significations of the houses to determine which of these will be affected? I guess the question is, does the signifying triplicity ruler need to be activated as well?

Uh, if I understand the question correctly, you're asking: "Now that I've identified the Rulers and Signs involved for the year, what the hell do I do now?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall
So the question becomes, since we know the worst Masha'Alla has written about happened, how do we judge if it will be reversed?

Before you do that, you have figure out exactly what's going on.
You probably already evaluated the condition of the Planets in the SR Chart, or at least the key players, and compared them to your Natal Chart.

A few pointers.

Mercury is not On-Station.

Not yet, anyway, and that is a big key in delineating the chart.

Mercury just crossed her own North Node so she's increasing in light and that's a +. She is within 12° of the Head and that's a +, so is being in her own Face, and being in the Bound of Jupiter and being received by Jupiter and being in a Bright Degree and being looked at by Venus and in aversion to Saturn. But Mercury is Slow and that's not good, and being Occidental Mercury is Female -- but in a Masculine Sign, House and Degree, and being Nocturnal (since she is Occidental) she is Above Earth....and so Out-of-Sect and in her own Detriment.
I should point out that some say the Head is in Fall in Sagittarius (and Tail in Fall in Gemini) but I'm not really sure about that and tend to ignore, since there's conflicting views on it.
Overall, Mercury is like a 2.5 on a Scale of 1 to 5.
At first glance, it appears that Mercury is applying to the sextile of Venus, but that isn't happening. Mercury did sextile Venus while Mercury was in Scorpio and Venus in Virgo, and due to Mercury's slowing, they stayed in the exact minute for nearly a week before Venus separated from Mercury.
Very, very important....it is Venus who separated from Mercury and Mercury is not applying to Venus.
Mercury cannot apply to Moon, because Moon is the faster of the two, so no aspect there. The next aspect is an opposition with Jupiter. Here's a case where a Planet goes Retrograde, then Direct, and still manages to perfect this opposition (with Mutual Reception) in Human Signs (Gemini plus the first 10° of Sagittarius).
I just can't help but notice the 10th Sign is Virgo -- Mercury -- ruling your fame and public standing, and the 9th House totally engulfs the 10th Sign.
And then the opposition is to Retrograde Jupiter. I was just commenting on another thread that is not an aspect, that is a collision and the signification of a Planet colliding with a Retrograde Planet is that you are being driven/forced/compelled to do something that you'd rather not do. That also fits well once again with the Out-of-Sect Mercury who is not Malefic (doing something it would not normally do otherwise)...and we saw the same thing in the Horary Chart.
Mercury never perfects the conjunction with Mars, because Mars changes Signs....but that is actually a good thing given that Mars rules Scorpio and Saturn is Retrograde there (meaning Saturn is weak even though he Joys in the 12th).
Anyway, with respect to health, Venus rules Taurus and Venus is in Libra in a Bright Degree, in a Degree of Increasing Fortune, sextile the Ascending Sign, trine the Ascendant Ruler and in aversion to Saturn.
No problems there (unless there's something freaky in the Natal Chart).
I mention that because sometimes it is easier to rule out what is not to be, and whatever is not ruled out is what it is.

I'll comment some more later, but right now I have to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently and die gallantly (because, you know, "specialization is for insects"...that's what Heinlein says).

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf

Last edited by JUPITERASC; 02-04-2019 at 04:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
dd78 (02-04-2019), SunConjunctUranus (02-04-2019)
  #32  
Unread 02-04-2019, 07:36 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,210
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Here is an extensive treatment of seven Hellenistic chronocratorship systems, profections start from the middle of page 52 -
https://www.scribd.com/document/3988...tGDZFMXQzydeqz
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
dd78 (02-05-2019), JUPITERASC (02-04-2019)
  #33  
Unread 02-04-2019, 07:38 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,210
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
If it wasn't made clear, time lord is a general term for the planetary influence that is most dominant for the times of a specific technique - time lords aren't only restricted to profections. Which means that there is a different time lord for firdaria, cirmumambulations, zodiacal releasing, solar/lunar returns etc.

The value of using all of these techniques in delineation is another issue.
One has to reject some based on reasoning and experience.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
conspiracy theorist (02-04-2019), dd78 (02-05-2019), JUPITERASC (02-04-2019)
  #34  
Unread 02-05-2019, 02:54 AM
Osamenor's Avatar
Osamenor Osamenor is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,358
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

All,

This is the traditional astrology board. Because it is the traditional astrology board, leave Pluto out of it. I don't know what Chris Brennan did or didn't say regarding Pluto, but that's irrelevant. This is not the place to discuss it. If you want to discuss modern planets in profections, that's hybrid astrology. This board is for traditional only.

Keep it traditional in this thread,
Osamenor

Edited to add: I've deleted a few off topic posts, which may have included the whole argument about Chris Brennan.

Last edited by Osamenor; 02-05-2019 at 02:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Osamenor For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (02-05-2019), SunConjunctUranus (02-05-2019)
  #35  
Unread 02-05-2019, 02:22 PM
dd78's Avatar
dd78 dd78 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: life sentence in a solitary confinement
Posts: 311
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
more detailed comment using an example
Time Lords by BobZemco and Konrad




WOW! Thank you JupiterAsc for this extensive info!

I really appreciate your effort and time

So I`m getting clearer picture, however this is a lot of new data to process, so I
am definitely going to have more specific questions, if you don`t mind

But I do respect your time (and that of other users) , so I`ll try to find the answers/data myself first.


Yet, going as deep as planetary nodes is a little too much for a noob like me , so I`ll stay away from it




I`m not sure which table of dignities to use, because there are at least two different, asaik, so I assume that they give different results.




http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html




Is the above one (acc. to Ptolemy) appropriate to be used in this type of analysis?
Or do I rather use the Chaldean/Egyptian?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dd78 For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (02-06-2019)
  #36  
Unread 02-05-2019, 02:26 PM
dd78's Avatar
dd78 dd78 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: life sentence in a solitary confinement
Posts: 311
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Here is an extensive treatment of seven Hellenistic chronocratorship systems, profections start from the middle of page 52 -
https://www.scribd.com/document/3988...tGDZFMXQzydeqz

WOW! Great!
Thank you, petosiris!

I` ll be back with questions, if you don`t mind
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dd78 For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (02-05-2019), petosiris (02-05-2019)
  #37  
Unread 02-05-2019, 04:50 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 47,086
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd78 View Post


WOW! Thank you JupiterAsc for this extensive info!

I really appreciate your effort and time

So I`m getting clearer picture, however this is a lot of new data to process, so I
am definitely going to have more specific questions, if you don`t mind

But I do respect your time (and that of other users) , so I`ll try to find the answers/data myself first.

Yet, going as deep as planetary nodes is a little too much for a noob like me , so I`ll stay away from it

I`m not sure which table of dignities to use, because there are at least two different, asaik, so I assume that they give different results.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

Is the above one (acc. to Ptolemy) appropriate to be used in this type of analysis?
Or do I rather use the Chaldean/Egyptian?
Egyptian
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Unread 02-05-2019, 11:57 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,210
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
The value of using all of these techniques in delineation is another issue.
I have a list of more profection procedures that you can wish for.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...078#post949078

Now imagine adding primary directions, solar and lunar revolutions, decennials, ages of man, firdaria, lunar quarters, Balbilus, 129, 9 years of Zoroaster and transits on top of using all.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
conspiracy theorist (02-06-2019), dd78 (02-06-2019), JUPITERASC (02-06-2019)
  #39  
Unread 02-06-2019, 01:35 AM
Osamenor's Avatar
Osamenor Osamenor is offline
Senior Member, Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,358
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
No its not the first time, this is now the 3rd, the other times didn't happen in any other 5th house perfection years though. And i can't remember the exact ages now.
Every profection year is different, even if it's a profection to the same house. Your other fifth house profection years saw different transits to and by Mars, different transits through and aspecting the fifth house, and started with different solar return charts. There also would've been different transits to and by any other planets you have activated in a fifth house profection year--that would be anything in Aries (profected sign), Scorpio (also activated when Mars is the time lord), or Libra (in the same sign as TL). All of those things affect the outcome.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Osamenor For This Useful Post:
Chrysalis (02-06-2019), dd78 (02-06-2019), JUPITERASC (02-06-2019)
  #40  
Unread 02-06-2019, 10:48 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 47,086
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd78 View Post


WOW! Great!
Thank you, petosiris!

I` ll be back with questions, if you don`t mind

petosiris on PROFECTIONS - Hellenistic time-lord technique

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


One of the most widespread time-lord techniques in Hellenistic astrology is referred today as annual profections. The Hellenistic astrologers did not have a specific name like most of their techniques, although some refer to a method for “determining the lord of the year”. There are many variations of the so-called annual profections that do not focus on a single houseruler, and for the most part there is lack of agreement on how to calculate monthly, daily and hourly types of profection.

Annual Profections
The earliest surviving reference to profections is found in the third book of Astronomica by the Roman poet Manilius. According to Manilius, the first year belongs to the sign of the Sun, while the next and subsequent years belong to the signs that follow in zodiacal order. The rationale given by Manilius for using the Sun is that it takes one year for the Sun to complete one course. This method to annual profections seems to be unique to Manilius.

The Anthology by Vettius Valens contains an abundance of different time-lord procedures. One chapter, attributed to a “Hermetic” source (Valens, 4.27) also suggests counting from the Sun, although only when it is found at an angle. This chapter describes a predomination method that considers four possible releasing places. If the Sun does not happen to be angular, one begins from the Moon if it is at the “degree of an angle”. If both are inapplicable, one begins from the Lot of Fortune if it happens to be angular. If all three points are inapplicable as specified, one counts from the Ascendant. If both luminaries are “approaching the angles“, one should start counting from the luminary that is of the sect in favour. The remaining of the chapter describes more predomination rules, although the passage is short and fragmentary.

Manilius states that some approved of an alternative approach where they counted years, months, days and hours from the Ascendant. This is the most common method of annual profections in the Hellenistic tradition and remained such in the Arabic tradition. It is mentioned by Dorotheus of Sidon, Firmicus Maternus, Paulus Alexandrinus and Hephaistio of Thebes. David Pingree translates the Arabic passage of the fourth book by Dorotheus as follows:

When a native is born, the lord of the year is the lord of the house [ascendent] in which the native was born. Thus count from the ascendent a year for each sign until you reach the year which you desire; the lord of that house is the lord of the year. Look at the lord of this sign, whether it is a benefic or a malefic, and in the base nativity how its position was and in which foundation it was. From the base-nativity is known what is concerning him [the native] at the beginning of the year, and the beginning of the year is always when the Sun enters the beginning of the minute in which it was on the day of the native's nativity. (Pingree, Dorotheus, 4)

Although Firmicus Maternus (Mathesis, 2.27) states that one should count from the rising sign, he mentions that some astrologers count from the Sun for day births, and from the Moon for night births. This presents additional evidence for counting from other places besides the rising sign based on considerations of predomination. Claudius Ptolemy in book 4, chapter 10 of the Tetrabiblos also describes annual profections from each of the releasing places he outlines previously in the same chapter. Rhetorius of Egypt in chapter 54 of the Compendium also mentions releasing not only from the Ascendant, but also from the Sun, the Moon, and the Lot of Fortune. A brief passage in CCAG 2.212.30-213.1 mentions Rhetorius in relation to counting from the parents’ lots for that topic.

Most astrologers focus on the planetary condition of the domicile ruler of the sign the year has come to. Some astrologers such as Dorotheus and Rhetorius also mention examining the sign and its configurations, and transits in relation to the quality of the year. In Books 4, 5 and 6 of the Anthology, Valens introduces a more complex method of profections, which evidently is partially derived from a lost work of an earlier author known as Critodemus.

The summary of Cridodemus (CCAG 8.3.102) mentions briefly that he dealt with the giving over (paradosis) of one planet to another, which sounds similar to the delineations given in Anthology 4.17-24. This does not represent conclusive evidence that Vettius Valens took his delineations for annual profections from Critodemus since the consideration of which planet is imparting to another is also used in the exaltation method of Balbilus, decennials (referred to as the method of dodekatemoria by Valens) and ingresses. Thus the chapters on the effects of the transmissions of the Ascendant, the planets, and the four lots in Valens could be unique to him.

According to Valens, one can profect from every planet, place and lot, and not just from the Ascendant, although he does emphasize the luminary of the sect in favour, the Ascendant and the other luminary. What seems to be different from other authors, is that the planets that occupy the sign take over the role of the houseruler. The releaser handles over the year to the houseruler only if the sign is empty.

In Book V, Valens introduces an elaboration of the previous rationale. The giving over of one point to another is also active in the years of the native that are multiple of the distance of signs, both taken as ordinal numbers. For example an Ascendant in Virgo would profect to Mars in Libra every second year from birth, and to Jupiter in Sagittarius every fourth year from birth. Both Valens and the Liber Hermetis credit Critodemus for a table of numerical profections of the Moon in relation to health crises. Critodemus emphasizes profections to planets in years which are multiple of 3 for Saturn, 9 for Jupiter, 7 for Mars, 18 for the Sun, 5 for Venus, 8 for Mercury and 13 for the Moon. The rationale behind those numbers is unknown. Valens says that if the year is not composite, one should extend the preceding interval as active for that given year.

Another method attributed to Hermes (Valens, 4.29) says that one should count from the Sun for mental matters, from the Moon for physical matters and the mother, and from the Lot of Fortune. These texts indicate that approaches to annual profections in the Hellenistic tradition were quite varied and often few starting points were used depending on the topic. Hermes states that one should use the Sothic year, which was equivalent to the year mentioned in Dorotheus.

Monthly Profections
There is even greater difference of opinion when it comes to monthly profections, perhaps partially because of disagreement on what period of time constitutes one month. Manilius states that one should begin counting from the Moon, and the rationale given is that it takes one month for the Moon to complete its course. Strangely, given his rationale for annual profections, Manilius later implies that there are 12 months in a year. Perhaps “course” is meant in the sense of an approximate or idealized synodic month rather than as the length of a sidereal month.

Most manuscripts of the Tetrabiblos present 28 day monthly profections, albeit from the sign the year has come to. This makes the domicile ruler of the sign assigned the year - time-lord over the first and the thirteenth month of that year. 28 days approximates the lunar month, and 13 months make 364 days which is approximately the length of the year. In the Arabic tradition, Al-Biruni describes monthly profections as consisting of 28 days 1 hour and 51 minutes to make it align with the 365 day year. Only two conflicting MSS. of the Tetrabiblos describe profections using 30 day months (Robbins, 1940).

Paulus and Hephaistio also describe profecting every month from the sign assigned the year, although they do not specify the length of the month. Since Hephaistio specifies that the daily profections are counted every two and one half days, it seems reasonable to make the assumption that he meant a year consisting of 12 months, each comprising approximately 30 days. This variation became the most prevalent one in the Arabic, Medieval and Renaissance traditions.

This approach of counting signs from the profected signs seems relatively absent in the rest of the Hellenistic tradition and its later popularity may have been partially influenced by Ptolemy. Most of the earlier authors present lot-like calculations for finding the sign of the month. One variant (Valens, 4.29) has a brief passage attributed to Hermes which says to take the distance from the transiting Sun to the Moon at the nativity, and then count the same distance from the sign assigned the year (profected Ascendant).

Similar calculation is later attributed to Nechepso by Valens (Anthology, 5.4), although it counts from the Ascendant of the nativity instead of the profected Ascendant. Levente László in private communication affirmed that the translation by Robert Schmidt and Mark Riley on the second part of the passage are mistaken. Schmidt and Riley both mistook the calculation being given for the operative “days” (τὰς δὲ ἡμέρας) for implying reversal of the monthly calculation for “day” births. This translation is also inconsistent conceptually, since it would imply that the diurnal calculation is thirteen times faster than the nocturnal calculation.

Firmicus Maternus (Mathesis, 2.28) does not even mention monthly profections. Instead, he describes an alternative technique using a division of the year. Beginning with the lord of the year, one assigns the days of the year among the planets following in zodiacal order, each star given a specific amount of days in proportion to its minor recurrence years. In other words, the year is divided by the sum of the minor years and multiplied by the minor years of each star. Annual divisions are also described by Valens (Valens, 4.30) and Hephaistio (Apotelesmatics, 2.36) with slight variations of the exact length of time because only Valens calculates the hours.

Hephaistio mentions an alternative division in which each sign is assigned the minor years of the domicile ruler, beginning from the sign that is given the year, although Saturn is assigned only 30 days, with the reasoning given by Hephaistio is that the two domiciles of Saturn are adjacent. After 184 days, the same division is repeated until the year is completed. Valens mentions that some astrologers made “monthly” forecasts according to the houserulers of New and Full Moon, although his opinion is that the transiting Sun foretells the outcome of the month due to arousing the power of signs and time-lords (Anthology, 5.4).

Daily and Hourly Profections
Few astrologers describe daily profections and even fewer mention hourly profections. Manilius says one should count daily and hourly profections from the Ascendant with each sign being given a day twice a month (2 1/2 days?) and one hour once a day. Goold (1977) suggests that double-hours are meant, rather than planetary hours.

Ptolemy uses 12 daily profections in a month with most MSS. giving the length of 2 1/3 days, while only those that give the 30 day monthly profections report a length of 2 1/2 days. Paulus also says that one should count daily profections from the sign assigned the month, albeit every sign given one day rather than 1/12 of a month. Hephaistio gives the length of 2 1/2 days.

Valens describes a method of multiplying the years of the nativity by 5 1/4, adding the days from birth, and dividing the result by twelve, giving one to each sign. He says that some astrologers count from the sign just following the Moon. This handy calculation yields one sign per day. Dorotheus gives a lot-like formula, saying one should measure the distance from the transiting Sun to the transiting Moon, and the same distance from the Ascendant at the nativity.

Different calculation is attributed to Nechepso by Valens (Anthology, 5.4). The operative day is determined by counting from the transiting Moon to the Sun at the nativity, and then the same distance from the Ascendant. The length of these two profections vary according to the speed of the Moon. Perhaps the appeal of these lots is that they dispense with the ambiguity of calendars and are instead based on concurrent astronomical positions and planetary revolutions.

Bibliography
Dorothei Sidonii Carmen Astrologicum, ed. David Pingree, Teubner, Leipzig, 1976.
Firmicus Maternus, Ancient Astrology, Theory and Practice: Matheseos Libri VIII, trans. Jean Rhys Bram, Noyes Press, Park Ridge, New Jersey, 1975.
Greenbaum, Dorian Gieseler (trans.), Late Classical Astrology: Paulus Alexandrinus and Olympiodorus, with the Scholia from Later Commentators, ed. Robert Hand, ARHAT, Reston, VA, 2001.
Hephaistio of Thebes, Apotelesmatics, Book II, trans. Robert H. Schmidt, The Golden Hind Press, Cumberland, MD, 1998.
Kraus, P. al-Biruni: The Book of Instruction in the Elements of the Art of Astrology, transl. by R. Ramsay Wright (Book Review). Orientalistische Literaturzeitung, 38, 692, 1935.
Manilius, Astronomica, ed. and trans. G. P. Goold, Loeb Classical Library, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, 1977
Pingree, David, Vettii Valentis Antiocheni anthologiarum libri novem, B.G. Teubner, Leipzig, 1986.
Ptolemy, Tetrabiblos, ed. and trans. F. E. Robbins, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, 1940.
Rhetorius the Egyptian, trans. James Herschel Holden, American Federation of Astrologers, Tempe, Arizona, 2009.
Schmidt, Robert (trans.) and Robert Hand (ed.). The Astrological Record of the Early Sages in Greek, The Golden Hind Press, Berkeley Springs, WV, 1995.
Vettius Valens, The Anthology, Book V & VI, trans. Robert Schmidt, ed. Robert Hand, The Golden Hind Press, Cumberland, MD, 1997.
Vettius Valens, The Anthology, trans. Mark T. Riley, online, December, 2010.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Unread 02-06-2019, 12:53 PM
Chrysalis's Avatar
Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Do not disturb
Posts: 6,047
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Aspects to and from the time lord query.

Are sextile aspects taken into account, or is it just the major aspects ?

For an exact event, can the orb be within 1 degree applying or does it need to be exact to produce an event ?
__________________
Y@ur 3ner9y intr@duc3s 7ou B3fore y@u even sp3@k
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Chrysalis For This Useful Post:
dd78 (02-06-2019)
  #42  
Unread 02-06-2019, 01:34 PM
dd78's Avatar
dd78 dd78 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: life sentence in a solitary confinement
Posts: 311
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
I have a list of more profection procedures that you can wish for.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...078#post949078

Now imagine adding primary directions, solar and lunar revolutions, decennials, ages of man, firdaria, lunar quarters, Balbilus, 129, 9 years of Zoroaster and transits on top of using all.



Thanks!

I keep getting Saturn (ZR, LOY) and the fact that Saturn is generally a malefic is my real concern,
So I`m rather interested in HOW and WHAT. Timing is not so important to me.



So do I analyze Saturn itself in my natal chart, or do I analyze his domicile & triplicity/bound rulers, respectively?
I`m asking, because I`m not sure where to stop and what is more important



AC Profected to 5th, CAP, with SAturn transiting it and falling within a dergee from Prof. AC in SR. ALso, 5th cusp aligns with 1st natal with Saturn in natal 1st. So I get a mix of 1st-5th-10th.

It gives him a lot of power this year.




The question is:
is it the power of destruction/defeat ?
Or success?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dd78 For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (02-06-2019)
  #43  
Unread 02-06-2019, 01:43 PM
dd78's Avatar
dd78 dd78 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: life sentence in a solitary confinement
Posts: 311
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Aspects to and from the time lord query.

Are sextile aspects taken into account, or is it just the major aspects ?

For an exact event, can the orb be within 1 degree applying or does it need to be exact to produce an event ?
Sextiles are generally opportunities.
Yes, they produce events.
I have tSaturn (LOY) in exact sextile to my Sun&Venus now. When it was about 1 degree from exactness (and applying) I decided to apply for a job
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dd78 For This Useful Post:
Chrysalis (02-06-2019), JUPITERASC (02-06-2019)
  #44  
Unread 02-06-2019, 01:47 PM
Chrysalis's Avatar
Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Do not disturb
Posts: 6,047
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd78 View Post
Sextiles are generally opportunities.
Yes, they produce events.
I have tSaturn (LOY) in exact sextile to my Sun&Venus now. When it was about 1 degree from exactness (and applying) I decided to apply for a job
Cheers mi dears

Im just looking back at last years, and its tieing in time wise with a synastry. Time lord last year was jupiter, the day i met for the first time with my current boyfriend, TR jupiter was exactly conjunct his scorpio sun.
__________________
Y@ur 3ner9y intr@duc3s 7ou B3fore y@u even sp3@k
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Unread 02-06-2019, 01:54 PM
Chrysalis's Avatar
Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Do not disturb
Posts: 6,047
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd78 View Post
Sextiles are generally opportunities.
Yes, they produce events.
I have tSaturn (LOY) in exact sextile to my Sun&Venus now. When it was about 1 degree from exactness (and applying) I decided to apply for a job
What significance planetary/house wise, does this applying aspect signify a job ? Are one of these planets in the 10th house or rule 10th house ?

Just out of interest.
__________________
Y@ur 3ner9y intr@duc3s 7ou B3fore y@u even sp3@k
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Chrysalis For This Useful Post:
dd78 (02-06-2019)
  #46  
Unread 02-06-2019, 02:14 PM
dd78's Avatar
dd78 dd78 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: life sentence in a solitary confinement
Posts: 311
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
What significance planetary/house wise, does this applying aspect signify a job ? Are one of these planets in the 10th house or rule 10th house ?

Just out of interest.
Saturn rules my 6th hs, Venus rules MC


There`s more about it in another thread that may be of interest to you.
However, the transits and progressions are approached there from a very different (rather modern than strlictly traditional) perspective:

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...135#post929135

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dd78 For This Useful Post:
Chrysalis (02-06-2019)
  #47  
Unread 02-06-2019, 02:45 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,210
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd78 View Post
Thanks!

I keep getting Saturn (ZR, LOY) and the fact that Saturn is generally a malefic is my real concern,
So I`m rather interested in HOW and WHAT. Timing is not so important to me.



So do I analyze Saturn itself in my natal chart, or do I analyze his domicile & triplicity/bound rulers, respectively?
I`m asking, because I`m not sure where to stop and what is more important



AC Profected to 5th, CAP, with SAturn transiting it and falling within a dergee from Prof. AC in SR. ALso, 5th cusp aligns with 1st natal with Saturn in natal 1st. So I get a mix of 1st-5th-10th.

It gives him a lot of power this year.




The question is:
is it the power of destruction/defeat ?
Or success?
I understand your concern that the techniques are many, but the predictions few. As I noted above, if one wants to preserve his sanity, he must pick and choose some of the techniques and develop their potential in domain-specific areas (for example one technique should be used for the length of life, but another for career advancement and marriage). Everything also depends on the chart, since Saturn is actually moderately benefic in some charts, while very malefic in other charts.

I use a different zodiac and different procedures than probably most people do, but I do go about explaining the method and structure of how predictions can be made - see Book III and pg. 47+ https://www.scribd.com/document/3988...tGDZFMXQzydeqz

Last edited by petosiris; 02-06-2019 at 02:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
dd78 (02-06-2019)
  #48  
Unread 02-06-2019, 04:40 PM
dd78's Avatar
dd78 dd78 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: life sentence in a solitary confinement
Posts: 311
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
I understand your concern that the techniques are many, but the predictions few. Everything also depends on the chart, since Saturn is actually moderately benefic in some charts, while very malefic in other charts.
Thank you for this explanation !

It clarifies a lot to me.
I actually agree with the statement that all depends on the chart (this is my observation) , however I needed a confirmation from
a professional, because I can`t be sure of my own delineations.

There are many techniques that give conflicting or confusing results
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dd78 For This Useful Post:
petosiris (02-06-2019)
  #49  
Unread 02-07-2019, 09:57 AM
Chrysalis's Avatar
Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Do not disturb
Posts: 6,047
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

Time lord recent example

LOY saturn (2nd house) posited in libra, Transit venus is 2 degrees away from squaring with LOY saturn, native has had payment restrictions and work related appointment cancellations yesterday and today.

There is mutual reception between venus/saturn though, would this have mitigated the squares harmful effects ?

Sect wise it is a night chart, so saturn is quite harmful here being the LOY.
__________________
Y@ur 3ner9y intr@duc3s 7ou B3fore y@u even sp3@k

Last edited by Chrysalis; 02-07-2019 at 10:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Unread 02-07-2019, 11:26 AM
Chrysalis's Avatar
Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Do not disturb
Posts: 6,047
Re: TIME LORDS - a TRADITIONAL Hellenistic Procedure

I'm trying to decipher how the reception would play out.

Say you've got venus (in aries) applying to LOY saturn (in libra), btw this aspect did bring news of a pregnancy, venus rules natives natal 5th house.
As saturn is in the fall of venus, and saturn is in a night chart so more malefic, does this aspect, even though she had a full term pregnancy with minor complications, suggest anything else ?
__________________
Y@ur 3ner9y intr@duc3s 7ou B3fore y@u even sp3@k
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hellenistic, lords, procedure, time, traditional

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.