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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #26  
Unread 01-06-2019, 09:25 PM
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Re: The Origin and Rationale of the Exaltation Signs and Degrees

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The domiciles arranged around the exaltations in the following way:
Sun exalted in Aries (Aries trine Leo)
Moon exalted in Taurus (Taurus sextile Cancer)
Mercury exalted in Virgo (Virgo square Gemini, the only non-harmonious aspect)
Venus exalted in Pisces (Pisces sextile Taurus)
Mars exalted in Capricorn (Capricorn sextile Scorpio)
Jupiter exalted in Cancer (Cancer trine Pisces)
Saturn exalted in Libra (Libra trine Aquarius)
While one could make a chicken-and-egg problem out of this, in debating which came first; the archeological evidence supports the greater antiquity for the exaltations.
The exaltations and domiciles mesh on a variety of levels.




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  #27  
Unread 01-07-2019, 06:15 PM
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Re: The Origin and Rationale of the Exaltation Signs and Degrees

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The domiciles arranged around the exaltations in the following way:

Sun exalted in Aries (Aries trine Leo)

Moon exalted in Taurus (Taurus sextile Cancer)

Mercury exalted in Virgo (Virgo square Gemini, the only non-harmonious aspect)

Venus exalted in Pisces (Pisces sextile Taurus)

Mars exalted in Capricorn (Capricorn sextile Scorpio)

Jupiter exalted in Cancer (Cancer trine Pisces)

Saturn exalted in Libra (Libra trine Aquarius)

While one could make a chicken-and-egg problem out of this, in debating which came first; the archeological evidence supports the greater antiquity for the exaltations.

The exaltations and domiciles mesh on a variety of levels.
If the exaltations are patterned around the domiciles or vice versa, why are those particular signs chosen rather than say Jupiter being exalted in a masculine sign Leo? The Lion seems a more royal animal than a servile Crab? If one dares invoke a Thema Mundi aspect, remember that there is no evidence of it in Babylonian astrology.

Also where do the degrees come from and what is their purpose? The human mind is prone to making random connections even when there are not. I am skeptical.

Last edited by petosiris; 01-07-2019 at 06:18 PM.
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  #28  
Unread 01-07-2019, 07:38 PM
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Re: The Origin and Rationale of the Exaltation Signs and Degrees

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Bezos is an unreliable greedy dude.
Bezos was born poor and disadvantaged
unlike former worlds wealthiest man Bill G
I have received the book and sending you a pm
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  #29  
Unread 01-08-2019, 01:56 AM
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Re: The Origin and Rationale of the Exaltation Signs and Degrees

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
If the exaltations are patterned around the domiciles or vice versa, why are those particular signs chosen rather than say Jupiter being exalted in a masculine sign Leo? The Lion seems a more royal animal than a servile Crab? If one dares invoke a Thema Mundi aspect, remember that there is no evidence of it in Babylonian astrology.

Also where do the degrees come from and what is their purpose? The human mind is prone to making random connections even when there are not. I am skeptical.
Unfortunately a lot of my astrology books are still packed up (post renovations, now with no good place to shelve them, so I'll have to dodge your questions and throw some back at you. But as I suggested earlier, there is the idea of special places of strength for planets, vs. the actual sign (and degree.) There is no question that the Babylonians identified special places for the transiting planets.

Of course, if you see no evidence for Babylonian exaltations, this still leaves the possibility of a much older Egyptian origin.

Just as a side-note, the main asterism of Cancer is Praesepe, variously called "the manger" or "the beehive." Depending upon the date, this would have been the solstice point, not the has-been Leo. Cancer and Capricorn, in Hellenistic esoterica, were the signs through which souls entered and departed the earth; a point not lost when the Gospels talk about Jesus lying in a manger surrounded by animals (think zodiac, plus the two "asses" of Cancer) and the solstices are fixed at 0 degrees of these signs.

There is a big debate as to what sign and house cusps really meant. Sharp boundaries? Zones of transition? Is the strong part of the sign or house in the middle? Right after the cusp? Do you count a planet 5 degrees before a house cusp as being in the next house?

I think answering some of these questions, plus finding out what fixed stars or asterisms were at the special degrees just prior to the first known mention of the Thema Mundi would be a big help.
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  #30  
Unread 01-08-2019, 09:22 AM
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Talking Re: The Origin and Rationale of the Exaltation Signs and Degrees

So how is it going, Ladies and Gentlemen?

PS: Thanks petosiris and JUPITERASC for the clearance to cut out Carl Jung's physiological aspect and common sense on here.

Last edited by SunConjunctUranus; 01-08-2019 at 09:46 AM.
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  #31  
Unread 01-11-2019, 10:04 PM
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Re: The Origin and Rationale of the Exaltation Signs and Degrees

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


Bezos is an unreliable greedy dude.
Jeff Bezos is currently divorcing his wife of twenty five years
and they had no pre-nup
because obviously
when they married
his wife was accountant for amazon
and Bezos ran amazon from his garage at home
now according to the laws of the state they reside
Bezons must divide his entire fortune of $137 BILLION
to share with his wife MacKenzie Bezos who overnight
shall suddenly attain status of being one of the wealthiest females in the world
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  #32  
Unread 01-12-2019, 11:49 AM
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Re: The Origin and Rationale of the Exaltation Signs and Degrees

Jeffrey Preston Bezos born Jeffrey Preston Jorgensen; 12 January 1964
Albuquerque, New Mexico, 35n05, 106w39
Timezone MST h7w (is standard time)
his mother was a 17-year-old high school student, and his father was a bike shop owner
After Jacklyn divorced Ted, she married Cuban immigrant Miguel "Mike" Bezos in April 1968
Shortly after the wedding, Mike adopted four-year-old Jorgensen, whose surname was then changed to Bezos
Bezos is the maternal grandson of Lawrence Preston Gise
a regional director of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) in Albuquerque.
Gise retired early to his family's ranch near Cotulla, Texas, where Bezos would spend many summers in his youth.
Bezos would later purchase this ranch, and grow it from 25,000 acres (10,117 ha) to 300,000 acres (121,406 ha)
His maternal grandmother was Mattie Louise Gise (née Strait)
through whom he is a cousin of country singer George Strait.
Bezos often displayed scientific interests and technological proficiency
he once rigged an electric alarm to keep his younger siblings out of his room.

While Bezos was in high school
he worked at McDonald's as a short-order line cook during the breakfast shift
In late 1993, Bezos decided to start an online bookstore and founded Amazon in his garage
on 5 July 1994, after writing its business plan on a trip from New York to Seattle.
Bezos named his new company "Amazon" after the Amazon River in South America
in part because the name begins with the letter "A," which is at the beginning of the alphabet.
He accepted an estimated $300,000 from his parents and invested in Amazon.
He warned many early investors that there was a 70% chance that Amazon would fail or go bankrupt.
Although Amazon was originally an online bookstore, Bezos had always planned
to expand to other products. Three years after Bezos founded Amazon, he took it public
with an initial public offering (IPO). In response to critical reports from Fortune and Barron's
Bezos maintained that the growth of the internet
would overtake competition from larger book retailers such as Borders and Barnes & Noble.

Bezos is an American technology entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist.
He is the founder, chairman, CEO, and president of Amazon.
Bezos was born in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and raised in Houston, Texas.
He graduated from Princeton University in 1986 with degrees in electrical engineering and computer science.
He worked on Wall Street in a variety of related fields from 1986 to early 1994.
He founded Amazon in late 1994 on a cross-country road trip from New York City to Seattle.
The company began as an online bookstore and has expanded to a variety of products and services,
including video and audio streaming.
It is currently the world's largest online sales company
as well as the world's largest provider of cloud infrastructure services
via its Amazon Web Services arm.

Bezos added to his business interests when he founded aerospace company Blue Origin in 2000.
A Blue Origin test flight successfully first reached space in 2015
and Blue has plans to begin commercial suborbital human spaceflight as early as late 2018.
He purchased The Washington Post in 2013 for US$250 million in cash.
Bezos manages other business investments through his venture capital fund, Bezos Expeditions.
then
27 July 2017, he became the world's wealthiest person
when his estimated net worth increased to just over $90 billion.
Bezos's wealth surpassed $100 billion for the first time on 24 November 2017
and he was formally designated the wealthiest person in the world by Forbes 6 March 2018
with a net worth of $112 billion.
The first centi-billionaire on the Forbes wealth index
he was named the "richest man in modern history"
after his net worth increased to $150 billion in July 2018.

But we have no time of birth so there is no reliable natal chart for Jeff Bezos
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  #33  
Unread 01-28-2019, 05:45 PM
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Talking Re: The Origin and Rationale of the Exaltation Signs and Degrees

Petosiris

Where are you? Haven't seen you for while now.
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  #34  
Unread 01-28-2019, 08:02 PM
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Re: The Origin and Rationale of the Exaltation Signs and Degrees

He also posts on the Skyscript forum.
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  #35  
Unread 01-28-2019, 08:22 PM
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Re: The Origin and Rationale of the Exaltation Signs and Degrees

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He also posts on the Skyscript forum.
petosiris posts on Skyscript Traditional board as well as Skyscript Sidereal board
just click on forum
select 'search' on left margin
then input name in box and click search
a list of threads on which the person has contributed appears
a recent example post from petosiris

petosiris
Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 115
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:25 pm

Robert Schmidt translated Hellenistic passages on transits by Dorotheus, Orpheus, Anubio and ''pseudo-Valens'' in 1995 in ''Teachings on Transits'', and they are all by sign. He says that ''first of all, the Greek concept clearly includes transits to the zoidion occupied by the planet, which is regarded as the place occupied by the planet in the whole-sign system of houses''. The relevant passage of Ptolemy is also suggestive of whole sign usage.

So Valens' quote is best understood in that context. The effects of Hellenistic transits are not perceived as ''hits'', but as chronocratorship with wider time frame (the shortest being of the Moon - 2 1/3 days). Personally, I have no opinion on the phases with this system, since I have not bothered with that sort of thing.
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Unread 04-14-2019, 04:01 PM
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Re: The Origin and Rationale of the Exaltation Signs and Degrees

BUMP!

peto cyrus, might be interesting to restart this thread with Ptolemean logic.
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