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Horary Questions on Relational Issues For horary questions about relationships.


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  #1  
Unread 05-21-2019, 03:26 AM
Dmarie11 Dmarie11 is offline
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Third party significator & VOC Moon

Iíll give the usual disclaimer of being very new to this with a lot to learn, but still trying!

Curious about the moon being VOC when this chart was cast. Does this play a larger role in reaching an answer with this particular chart/question? Querent is asking if an ex is still seeing someone he was casually dating a few months ago, so Iím also confused as to assigning significators when a third party is involved.

https://imgur.com/a/tQ4IWIh

L1: Venus, Moon
L7: Mars, Sun - Mars only represents ex, or actually represents the relationship? Or third party/relationship represented by another planet?

- Venus in detriment in Aries/7th and received by Mars
- Moon exalted in Taurus/8th and received by Venus (not sure if this reception is even relevant, since theyíre both the querentís significators?)
- Mars in Gemini/9th
- Sun in Taurus/8th and received by Venus

Only applying aspect seems to be a sextile between Venus and Mars, unless thereís an additional significator to also consider for third party/relationship?

Any insight is greatly appreciated!

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  #2  
Unread 05-21-2019, 07:47 AM
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heidy26 heidy26 is offline
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It's not querent's business what the ex does.
Horary is not to be used for questions that concern others' lives.
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  #3  
Unread 05-21-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heidy26 View Post
It's not querent's business what the ex does.
Horary is not to be used for questions that concern others' lives.
She was actually trying to be respectful by asking, since heíd been on her mind and she didnít feel comfortable reaching out if heís seeing someone.
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  #4  
Unread 05-21-2019, 11:37 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Third party significator & VOC Moon

Actually as a question it can be asked, and William Lilly for example has very specific rules for determining if a loved one has another lover.
I don't have time at the moment to list them, sorry, but maybe later.
They basically refer to aspects the significator of the quested makes with other planets, but there isn't a specific house assigned to the "other lover".
Obviously the question shouldn't be asked lightly, or for malevolent or vindictive purposes.
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  #5  
Unread 05-21-2019, 04:10 PM
Dmarie11 Dmarie11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Actually as a question it can be asked, and William Lilly for example has very specific rules for determining if a loved one has another lover.
I don't have time at the moment to list them, sorry, but maybe later.
They basically refer to aspects the significator of the quested makes with other planets, but there isn't a specific house assigned to the "other lover".
Obviously the question shouldn't be asked lightly, or for malevolent or vindictive purposes.
Absolutely, and I really do believe sheís genuinely asking out of respect. This bit of info helps point me in the right direction in researching, so thank you!
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  #6  
Unread 05-21-2019, 06:29 PM
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heidy26 heidy26 is offline
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There is actually a difference between asking "Is there someone else in his life?" and "Should i reach out to him?". Horary should help and answer anything that involves the querent and the intention/questions reveal that. I know Lilly gives the rules for delineating if a woman had another, but this still stands in place.
You are not allowed to see what other people do and should not ask.
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  #7  
Unread 05-21-2019, 09:27 PM
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Re: Third party significator & VOC Moon

Horary DOES answer these types of querys.

Whether they are allowed or not.
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  #8  
Unread 05-22-2019, 01:37 AM
Dmarie11 Dmarie11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heidy26 View Post
There is actually a difference between asking "Is there someone else in his life?" and "Should i reach out to him?". Horary should help and answer anything that involves the querent and the intention/questions reveal that. I know Lilly gives the rules for delineating if a woman had another, but this still stands in place.
You are not allowed to see what other people do and should not ask.
I understand what youíre saying, so the question probably couldíve been asked differently to convey her true intention. Iím definitely an amateur with a lot to learn, so all perspectives and insight in this forum are very helpful and appreciated!
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  #9  
Unread 05-22-2019, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Horary DOES answer these types of querys.

Whether they are allowed or not.
Like i said, you are not allowed to see what others do. It's none of your business.
Unless you want to know something that is actually about you.
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  #10  
Unread 05-22-2019, 11:06 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Third party significator & VOC Moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by heidy26 View Post
Like i said, you are not allowed to see what others do. It's none of your business.
Unless you want to know something that is actually about you.
We should differentiate between "can" and "should".
Any question can be asked in horary.
Do you want to answer it? Maybe not, but not everyone might agree with your position.
It could be a question of ethics, which sounds like the position you are taking. Is it correct to ask about another person's life? Maybe yes, maybe no.
If a horary asks, What is the best time to rob Alice's house?, you probably won't read the chart on ethical grounds.
If someone asks, "Will she divorce and marry me?, it involves in reality a third party (her husband) but you would probably read it.
In the case of this chart, the question seems to be "is he free sentimentally, so I might have a relationship with him?.
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  #11  
Unread 05-22-2019, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
We should differentiate between "can" and "should".
Any question can be asked in horary.
Do you want to answer it? Maybe not, but not everyone might agree with your position.
It could be a question of ethics, which sounds like the position you are taking. Is it correct to ask about another person's life? Maybe yes, maybe no.
If a horary asks, What is the best time to rob Alice's house?, you probably won't read the chart on ethical grounds.
If someone asks, "Will she divorce and marry me?, it involves in reality a third party (her husband) but you would probably read it.
In the case of this chart, the question seems to be "is he free sentimentally, so I might have a relationship with him?.
I think you should really rethink this. And while you do that, imagine a world where every astrologer would be a lottery winner because he already delineated the winning numbers for the next season. And this is not allowed. Because you are not allowed to see this. Allowed, alright ?
Now re-read about what i wrote about things that INVOLVE YOU. You'll get it.
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  #12  
Unread 05-22-2019, 02:00 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Third party significator & VOC Moon

What is your source? Can you refer to any references where it lists what is allowed and what isn't?
No polemics meant, just asking.
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Unread 05-22-2019, 03:01 PM
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Sure. Read ancient horary authors. Read the rules of this astrology branch and follow them.
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  #14  
Unread 05-22-2019, 03:07 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Third party significator & VOC Moon

Can you be more specific please?
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  #15  
Unread 05-22-2019, 03:53 PM
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Re: Third party significator & VOC Moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by heidy26 View Post
It's not querent's business what the ex does.
Horary is not to be used for questions that concern others' lives.
Heidy, I don't know of any rules that state this. Agreed, a chart must be radical to be judged, and in fact, there are very specific rules for this.
Not every silly question should be asked, and the same question should not be asked more than once.
In addition, the answer to a horary question cannot overturn what is in a person's natal chart. If the natal chart indicates money hardships, the horary itself cannot promise this.
When a question is asked, if we see something in the chart that was not asked, we shouldn't bring it up unless the questioner indicates they want to know something about it.
A passage in Derek Appleby's book "Horary Astrology" discusses the idea of inappropriate questions as follows, "If you have no right to judge a certain question, its resolution will be denied you through the chart itself. The only restriction to judgement is one's own sensibility and the actual horary figure."
I agree completely with this philosophy, the horary is self-validating.
So, coming back to our discussion, I was surprised by your complete, net, refusal to consider the chart. It's your choice to do so and no one denies it to you, but because you are citing horary rules that you are following to refuse it, I really would like to know your sources. Maybe I am wrong in my belief, and you can help me learn something new.
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Unread 05-22-2019, 04:24 PM
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Re: Third party significator & VOC Moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmarie11 View Post
Iíll give the usual disclaimer of being very new to this with a lot to learn, but still trying!

Curious about the moon being VOC when this chart was cast. Does this play a larger role in reaching an answer with this particular chart/question? Querent is asking if an ex is still seeing someone he was casually dating a few months ago, so Iím also confused as to assigning significators when a third party is involved.

https://imgur.com/a/tQ4IWIh

L1: Venus, Moon
L7: Mars, Sun - Mars only represents ex, or actually represents the relationship? Or third party/relationship represented by another planet?

- Venus in detriment in Aries/7th and received by Mars
- Moon exalted in Taurus/8th and received by Venus (not sure if this reception is even relevant, since theyíre both the querentís significators?)
- Mars in Gemini/9th
- Sun in Taurus/8th and received by Venus

Only applying aspect seems to be a sextile between Venus and Mars, unless thereís an additional significator to also consider for third party/relationship?

Any insight is greatly appreciated!

Moon void of course would normally invalidate this chart, but with moon exalted in taurus, it could simply indicate that no, he is no longer with the ex, the matter does not exist.
Mars is in mutual reception with Saturn in the 4th and ruling the 4th, confirming they are no longer together.
Venus in the 7th, mar's house, and in detriment shows that the querent cares more than he does and is in a weak position, and while it is true that she is approaching a sextile to mars, before this happens mars opposes Jupiter, who is in the terms and face of Saturn, ruler of the end of the matter.
Careful, she didn't ask if she would be back together with him, so this chart only refers to him and an ex of his.
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Unread 05-22-2019, 07:41 PM
Dmarie11 Dmarie11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Moon void of course would normally invalidate this chart, but with moon exalted in taurus, it could simply indicate that no, he is no longer with the ex, the matter does not exist.
Mars is in mutual reception with Saturn in the 4th and ruling the 4th, confirming they are no longer together.
Venus in the 7th, mar's house, and in detriment shows that the querent cares more than he does and is in a weak position, and while it is true that she is approaching a sextile to mars, before this happens mars opposes Jupiter, who is in the terms and face of Saturn, ruler of the end of the matter.
Careful, she didn't ask if she would be back together with him, so this chart only refers to him and an ex of his.
Yes, thatís a great point. Totally understand this chart only speaks to her question and not necessarily anything further. Of course, Saturn in the 4th is something Iíd overlooked. So much info Iím still trying to retain, which is why the feedback in these posts is so great when trying to apply what Iíve read. Thank you for taking time to help!
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  #18  
Unread 05-22-2019, 07:55 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Third party significator & VOC Moon

There are so many layers, so many corners and insights in every chart, each contains a universe. You can have so much insight from each one, the more you delve.
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  #19  
Unread 05-22-2019, 09:08 PM
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Re: Third party significator & VOC Moon

Looks like a yes to me anyway.

Moons been trine saturn L5 and is in a fixed sign, venus is still in applying aspect to saturn.
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  #20  
Unread 05-22-2019, 09:37 PM
Dmarie11 Dmarie11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Looks like a yes to me anyway.

Moons been trine saturn L5 and is in a fixed sign, venus is still in applying aspect to saturn.
Ok, interesting! So, the querentís significators having aspected with Saturn possibly holds even more weight in reaching an answer than a void moon or Saturn in the 4th?
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  #21  
Unread 05-22-2019, 09:38 PM
Dmarie11 Dmarie11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
There are so many layers, so many corners and insights in every chart, each contains a universe. You can have so much insight from each one, the more you delve.
Yes, this is so very true!!
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  #22  
Unread 05-23-2019, 10:17 AM
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heidy26 heidy26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Heidy, I don't know of any rules that state this. Agreed, a chart must be radical to be judged, and in fact, there are very specific rules for this.
Not every silly question should be asked, and the same question should not be asked more than once.
In addition, the answer to a horary question cannot overturn what is in a person's natal chart. If the natal chart indicates money hardships, the horary itself cannot promise this.
When a question is asked, if we see something in the chart that was not asked, we shouldn't bring it up unless the questioner indicates they want to know something about it.
A passage in Derek Appleby's book "Horary Astrology" discusses the idea of inappropriate questions as follows, "If you have no right to judge a certain question, its resolution will be denied you through the chart itself. The only restriction to judgement is one's own sensibility and the actual horary figure."
I agree completely with this philosophy, the horary is self-validating.
So, coming back to our discussion, I was surprised by your complete, net, refusal to consider the chart. It's your choice to do so and no one denies it to you, but because you are citing horary rules that you are following to refuse it, I really would like to know your sources. Maybe I am wrong in my belief, and you can help me learn something new.
I really cannot understand what more do you need. You already answered your questions.

Read the principles of Horary. If you are quoting chunks of horary passages that you do not use or you can't get a complete grasp on, I am afraid I cannot add anything else.

First rule of every chart is if the question is frivolous or not. Any question that deems to be answered by the chart will be answered, otherwise the chart will be denied. Following my last points, it's easily understandable that what's none of your business is to be denied. Like lottery numbers, who killed the latest victim the NY police has on file and what does your ex do.
If you are still reading pointless charts that deny you an answer because you shouldn't ask and you're still erecting those charts, well good for you. But don't be suprised if others don't. And don't ask for clarification.

As a secondary point, regardless of what the natal chart promises, yada yada yada, the horary chart cannot delineate your entirr life, it's a very specific type of prediction that should be used in conjunction with profections, solar returns. But this is not what we are discussing here.


And if you really need sources, read Bonatti. It's crystal clear reading.

Last edited by heidy26; 05-23-2019 at 01:31 PM.
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  #23  
Unread 05-23-2019, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Moon void of course would normally invalidate this chart, but with moon exalted in taurus, it could simply indicate that
A void of course Moon does not invalidate a chart. Get your facts straight.
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