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  #51  
Unread 08-05-2011, 12:50 PM
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Re: Part of Fortune

Thanks Dr. Farr for adding some background to the status of malefics and benifics. It's interesting to see how at different times, different people treated them. I found when considering lots the other day that there are some things we should update in my opinion, for example how the in world do I figure out my lot of marriage? If we're talking female/female or male/male marriage (which I don't believe was anyway considered back then, let alone a lot devised). So I think we can leave SOME parts of the past there, and 'update' our systems. I guess I might try ASC + Sun-Mars/ Saturn-Mars for male/male marriage.

A50, I read recently that the Greeks used Whole Sign for finding where in a native's life effects are shown, and other systems (there is debate everywhere I go about whether it was Equal, the start of Placidus or Porphyry --I stress the origin of the latter two, as we know those men whose names were used for those systems later on weren't yet born) for assessing a planet's 'strength'. So it just happens that the works I've been reading recently seem to use Whole Sign for our idea of 'house', which I believe they called 'places' and in my chart, it seems Saturn is in my 'sixth place' (from ASC). Anything I read on ancient use of Equal/Whole/Other I'm investigating, since I don't see good reason to use the newer systems without question, and seeing how religion and 'accidents' and 'availability' affected some houses develpments...

Either way, with the Sun, Moon and ASC calculation the PoF is conjunct my Saturn, whichever the system.

JupiterASC, thank you again for the links! I'm confident I have a better grip on my natal Saturn's dignity. It seems that my Saturn is in his own face AND term AND triplicity (important even more as a sect ruler) and this is considered essential dignity. Add to that, having a malefic locked away a little in a cadent house, and Vettius Valens says that having the Sun or Jupiter in aspect helps, and I've the first by aspect the both by sign. This calms me on fearing I'll lose what I gain because of Saturn's influence. I do know this though; Valens referred to natives with Saturn preceding an angle as showing a 'humble start to life' even if they overturned their fortunes and became wealthy later on. Great!


Last edited by byjove; 08-05-2011 at 12:58 PM.
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  #52  
Unread 08-05-2011, 03:41 PM
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Talking Re: Part of Fortune

How about Fortuna conj. the Moon, I never hear about this one? Nor do the charts show any points alloted to Fortuna if Trine, Sextile or Conj. Fortuna.

I am curious since I have this placement. My Part of Fortune is at 22* Pisces in the 5th House, and Tightly Conj. my Moon at 20* Pisces. Virtually, my Fortuna has no squares, oppositions or Conj. from the Sun and is Trine my Mars and Mercury.

The only bad thing is it is in the Terms of Mars, but I don't really see it that bad, since there is more Benefic than Malefic going on here. Anyway's does anyone have an input on the Moon aspecting Fortuna through Trine, Sextile or Conj.?
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  #53  
Unread 08-05-2011, 09:43 PM
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Re: Part of Fortune

Well which house does the Moon rule in your chart? The condition of it's dispositor? I've seen Vettius Valens show how the house ruled by a planet conjunct the PoF can show talents or abilities connected to how/where money is earned.
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  #54  
Unread 08-07-2011, 05:43 AM
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Re: Part of Fortune

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Well which house does the Moon rule in your chart? The condition of it's dispositor? I've seen Vettius Valens show how the house ruled by a planet conjunct the PoF can show talents or abilities connected to how/where money is earned.
The Moon rules my 9th House Cancer, and is disposited by Jupiter. Jupiter is conjunct my ASC and Spica (no bad aspects, except the Sun Conj.), but also combust and in the 12th House. Although it is Oriental (Rising before the Sun), and In-Sect. Final Dispositor is Venus, which disposits itself in Libra, in her own house of joy the 12th.

Although I think I read somewhere that if the Sun Conj. any planet from a different sign (or house) isn't really combust in Traditional Terms, not sure where though. Can someone correct me on this one?

Jupiter is in Libra, and Sun in Scorpio in the 1st House.
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  #55  
Unread 08-07-2011, 10:22 AM
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Re: Part of Fortune

Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 View Post
The Moon rules my 9th House Cancer, and is disposited by Jupiter. Jupiter is conjunct my ASC and Spica (no bad aspects, except the Sun Conj.), but also combust and in the 12th House. Although it is Oriental (Rising before the Sun), and In-Sect. Final Dispositor is Venus, which disposits itself in Libra, in her own house of joy the 12th. Although I think I read somewhere that if the Sun Conj. any planet from a different sign (or house) isn't really combust in Traditional Terms, not sure where though. Can someone correct me on this one? Jupiter is in Libra, and Sun in Scorpio in the 1st House.
here's some advice from Olivia on combustion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivia View Post
If it's within 17 minutes of the Sun, it's cazimi.
If it's further than that, and up to 8-1/2 degrees away, it's combust, even if it's in a different sign.
From 8-1/2 to 15 degrees away it's under the beams, which means it's slightly weakened, but not as much as combustion would weaken it.
Basically what happens in cazimi is the planet is considered to be 'sitting in the lap of the king' and is given great power.
In combustion, the planet's power is transferred to the Sun, so will always act in service to the Sun - which is likely to come with one great gift. Merc/Sun combust is often the sign of a very good writer, for example, but one can get awfully caught up in one's own opinions to the point of not listening to others, Venus combust in Taurus is often the guy who can bed just about any woman but can't establish a permanent relationship, Venus combust in Libra is often a gorgeous woman trapped in a miserable marriage, and so forth.
Jupiter could give wealth, make you a good barrister or a judge, possibly fame, but you might be awfully pompous.
Combust planets for women (any planet) seem to be bad for marriage as a rule, though it doesn't seem to hold true quite so much for men, though it depends on the planet, and I'd definitely still look at it.
A good tutorial on cazimi versus combustion is the Book or Scroll of Ester (which may or may not be in your bible depending on what version you've got). Consider Ester to be cazimi, and a whole lot of other folks in the story combust (even Haman goes combust eventually!). Read in that light you might get a whole new appreciation of biblical literature as well.
QUOTE
Bonatti said that Venus rejoices in the 5th house because it is the "house of joy, delight and dance." Note that the two benefic planets, Jupiter and Venus, rejoice in two opposite houses that modern astrologers consider beneficial. FROM http://garybrandastrology.com/articl...4.10.2001.html
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  #56  
Unread 08-07-2011, 02:02 PM
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Re: Part of Fortune

Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 View Post
The Moon rules my 9th House Cancer, and is disposited by Jupiter. Jupiter is conjunct my ASC and Spica (no bad aspects, except the Sun Conj.), but also combust and in the 12th House. Although it is Oriental (Rising before the Sun), and In-Sect. Final Dispositor is Venus, which disposits itself in Libra, in her own house of joy the 12th.

Although I think I read somewhere that if the Sun Conj. any planet from a different sign (or house) isn't really combust in Traditional Terms, not sure where though. Can someone correct me on this one?

Jupiter is in Libra, and Sun in Scorpio in the 1st House.
“For technical purposes, in Western astrology, most ancient and medieval authorities considered a planet combust or burnt when its position was within 5-8 degrees on either side of the Sun. However, a planet will continue to be weakened by the Sun until it has elongated by 15-17 degrees from it. (Lilly says 17 degrees on p. 113 of Christian Astrology.) This positioning is said to be under the beams of the Sun, and although it may be stronger than being combust, it will still cause a noticeable weakening in a planet's effectiveness.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combust_(astrological_aspect)


http://www.astrologyweekly.com/dictionary/combust.php

Cazimi
“So for a modern astrologer, Mars either cazimi or combust the sun is strengthened because Mars is considered fiery and hot, and thus benefits from meeting the fiery heat of the sun. But cold and dry Saturn would weaken when either combust or cazimi, because the nature of the sun is damaging to Saturn. Modern astrologers usually make no distinction between a planet being combust the sun or cazimi.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combust_(astrological_aspect)
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  #57  
Unread 08-07-2011, 06:39 PM
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Wink Re: Part of Fortune

Thank you astrologer 50 and jupiterasc. I know what combust and cazimi are (Olivia posted that exact post in my thread), but what I meant was that I read that a few ancient astrologers considered Combust when happening either in the same sign or same house (sorry I forget). If I could just remember where I read this and who were the one's to mention it.

I know Venus joy's in the 5th House, but she also joy's in the 12th as well. Like Saturn who joy's in the 1st and 12th, venus joy's in 5th and 12th.

At least is what I read in skyscript and here in the forums. Something about the ancients always seeing Venus in this part of the sky a lot, and even though the 12th is combust, Venus would still shine bright here.
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  #58  
Unread 08-08-2011, 03:32 AM
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Re: Part of Fortune

Interesting to notice the changed allocations in Western astrology by the 13th century (and since) when compared with the original Greco/Roman allocations: from Manilius onward (into the early to mid Islamic transitional period) the joy of Venus was allocated to the 10th "place" (house), not the 5th (which was devoid of planetary joy allocations until the time of Bonatti, but which was considered by the ancients as the "sorrow" of Jupiter, being in opposition to the place/house of Jupiter's joy-the 11th place/house)
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