Elevated and pitted degrees
- Thread starter dr. farr
- Start date
m0ney*p0wer*re$pect
Well-known member
ok, i have a libra mars in the 4th degree, so mars is elevated or does this mena that sense of self is more prevelant?
It would mean:
-that Mars influence in the nativity is amplified
-and that the more favorable/benefic/constructive qualities of Mars are emphasized, and the disruptive/malefic qualities of Mars are diminished.
-also, that-everything else being equal-transits to the natal Mars are amplified in their influence.
-that Mars influence in the nativity is amplified
-and that the more favorable/benefic/constructive qualities of Mars are emphasized, and the disruptive/malefic qualities of Mars are diminished.
-also, that-everything else being equal-transits to the natal Mars are amplified in their influence.
Mark
Well-known member
The list of elevated/pitted degrees seems to list the degrees of signs from 0 to 29. The first critical degree in Capricorn is 0, not 1. Going through the list manually, I see 4 degrees that are both critical and pitted (same as previously listed).
21 Leo
9 Scorpio
21 Scorpio
21 Aquarius
Is there any way to shed light on the mathematics of this system? I would find that most interesting.
21 Leo
9 Scorpio
21 Scorpio
21 Aquarius
Is there any way to shed light on the mathematics of this system? I would find that most interesting.
Claire19
Well-known member
I dont subscribe to the detriment, fall etc terminology.......or that the number of degrees by itself is significant. Everything ties in with the aspects to other planets and if you have a good aspect at 4 degrees say Libra with Uranus sextile to say Venus then it is propitious. A chart has to be taken as a whole and not just isolated placements. I have never heard of "pitted" and I have been practising for 30 years. Some of the old astrology is narrow and sexist, moralistic.......according to the times. Uranus as the planet of astrology also deals with breaking down stereotypes, is modern essentially and humane, non sexist. Moving with the times!!!
.I fail to understand how the old time doctrine of pitted and elevated degrees (and critical degrees) is connected with "sexist" or "moralist" attitudes...
Modernist astrology does not use concepts of dignities and debilities, which is great for those who are using that model; traditionalist astrology rarely uses the degree qualities (like pits and peaks) in delineation; Vedic astrology also does not pay attention to qualities of degrees. All of these models, in the hands of experts, are highly accurate analytical and predictive methods.
I have simply found by experience that taking the degree-qualities into account in delineation, I get more accurate results. This thread is presented only for the general information of AW members, and for those few who might want to experiment with the pits and peaks for themselves.
Modernist astrology does not use concepts of dignities and debilities, which is great for those who are using that model; traditionalist astrology rarely uses the degree qualities (like pits and peaks) in delineation; Vedic astrology also does not pay attention to qualities of degrees. All of these models, in the hands of experts, are highly accurate analytical and predictive methods.
I have simply found by experience that taking the degree-qualities into account in delineation, I get more accurate results. This thread is presented only for the general information of AW members, and for those few who might want to experiment with the pits and peaks for themselves.
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Thanks for the correction: yes, 1Capricorn is a pitted degree ONLY, not also a critical degree; however, I noticed that 0Libra should be added to the pitted/critical degree list.
Where did these degree allocations come from? They might have developed from the "partes damnande" (involving 102 degrees of the ecliptic) listed by Manilius in the "Astronomica" (14AD)-but the source of these is nowhere to be found in the (known) historical literature. We don't find any similar kind of degree-system in Vedic astrology, so there is no help from that quarter. There is suggestive material connecting degree-qualities to the long-lost "Great Celestial Handbook" of Petosiris and Nechepso (c. 150 BC, Alexandria), and also that in some way they represent indications used in ancient Egyptian calendrical astrology. But nothing concrete has yet been brought to light. The Ebertin Cosmobiologie school, and the extensive researches of Charles Carter, has brought much information to light regarding degree-areas, but this is not the same as the ancient degree-quality material, such as here in the case of pits and peaks...
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Skillcoil
Well-known member
Thank you. Since my Moon is in an elevated degree in Sagittarius, what if it's ruling planet Jupiter is retrograde?
From my point of view, the Moon would be amplified in its (particularly benefic) influences in the chart (and in all future transits to the natal Moon position as well); the condition of its sign dispositor (Jupiter) would not have an influence upon this amplified Lunar state.
isismagdalenne
Well-known member
apparently, in my chart, Pluto and the Moon are pitted and Jupiter is elevated. Whoooo jupiter! Thats probably a pretty good planet to have all shiny and such.
Dr. Farr dont worry about if people like what you have to say or not. There are PLENTY of people interested in it all. And anyone that doesnt like your methods, here is an idea, they can just not use them. I cant even imagine why they banned you on another site, seems crazy and a waste of a good brain hanging around.
Dr. Farr dont worry about if people like what you have to say or not. There are PLENTY of people interested in it all. And anyone that doesnt like your methods, here is an idea, they can just not use them. I cant even imagine why they banned you on another site, seems crazy and a waste of a good brain hanging around.
isismagdalenne
Well-known member
Yay us!!!!
BobZemco
Well-known member
That would depend on the system of reckoning: 0 to 29 or 1 to 30.
0 to 29 is a modern thing used mostly to make it easier for software programs to calculate charts.
Critical Degrees are a corrupted version of the Vedic Moon Mansions. It could be possible these are "Planetary Mansions."
I've also heard the Degrees of Fortune and Pitted Degrees are Planetary Nodes, but I don't really see how unless they are the points where the Planetary Nodes would conjunct the Antiscion/Contra-Antiscion when in a given Sign.
Mark
Well-known member
There were three distinctly different systems of lunar mansions. One could argue that there are four, given that the Hindu system spawned an additional 27 mansion system. They are all similar and probably based on the same things, but they don't directly translate to critical degrees. The lunar mansion systems are star-based. Critical degrees are tropical and therefore angle-based.
As to the list of degrees, I checked the list at the time of that posting and found that the measurements used to create the list were 0-29. There are no 30's, yet there are 0's. Look at the list to see for yourself.
As to the list of degrees, I checked the list at the time of that posting and found that the measurements used to create the list were 0-29. There are no 30's, yet there are 0's. Look at the list to see for yourself.
None that has been discovered. This "celestial topography" does not seem to be based upon any kind of a theory, nor to derive (like the hermetic aspects do) from geometrical/numerological considerations.
Perhaps (like the association of degree areas with the exaltation and fall of planets) it is based on (very ancient) empirical observations (and maybe "experiments"), or perhaps it is based on direct perception (gnostic experiential perception) of the Cosmos by adepts in ancient times: whatever, the concept was "just there" (in Greco/Roman astrological practice) in "full bloom" at least 1700 years ago....
In my understanding of the historical concepts relating to this question, I would have to say that the planet (already in exaltation) becomes more exalted (in its benefic influences) if it is posited in an elevated degree.
What if a planet is in its exaltation but is also in a pitted degree? The historical concept would be that this planet is neutralized in its influence (that is, by this accidental debility of being in a pitted degree, that planet's influence is "boxed in" or "blocked" to a significant extent)
Remember that these degrees are not absolute, they indicate amplification or inhibition (boxing in, neutralizing tendency) only, and so are similar to concepts of dignity and debility relative to signs, positions on the wheel of houses, and so on.
I think they often explain a lot: why some planets that look strong in the chart don't do much in the life, while other planets that look so-so turn out to act like dynamite in the life.
Relative to my outlook re to transits, I"ll say that even on a free-speech site like AW some of my approaches to horary have caused me to be accused by a traditionalist practitioner of trying to overthrow standard horary practice, and some of my postings in other forums have led to a Modernist practitioner accusing me of being on an intellectual ego trip and writing about things which have little or nothing to do with the study of astrology! My outlook relative to transits (and, indeed to natal delineation) is more radical than what I've posted regarding these other subjects (like horary) so I keep this material to myself...
I think they often explain a lot: why some planets that look strong in the chart don't do much in the life, while other planets that look so-so turn out to act like dynamite in the life.
Relative to my outlook re to transits, I"ll say that even on a free-speech site like AW some of my approaches to horary have caused me to be accused by a traditionalist practitioner of trying to overthrow standard horary practice, and some of my postings in other forums have led to a Modernist practitioner accusing me of being on an intellectual ego trip and writing about things which have little or nothing to do with the study of astrology! My outlook relative to transits (and, indeed to natal delineation) is more radical than what I've posted regarding these other subjects (like horary) so I keep this material to myself...
Vagabondgirl
Well-known member
Ok, then I have 3 pitted planets... Mars at 20 deg. virgo, Sun at 19. deg. libra and saturn at 26 deg. scorpio. Bad luck or what?
But moon is at 29. deg. virgo. So then its elevated?
But moon is at 29. deg. virgo. So then its elevated?
No, it doesn't mean bad luck at all: merely that the influences of Mars, Sun and Saturn are limited, inhibited, and tend toward NEUTRALITY, being neither particularly "good" NOR particularly "bad" in their effects. The Moon at 29 Virgo is neither in a pit nor an elevation (see list) but say it were at 19 Virgo, that would be an elevation and this means that the influence of the Moon in the chart is amplified, that any debility it might have is largely overcome, and that its influence will tend to be positive/benefic in the chart.
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