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  #1  
Unread 06-11-2013, 12:46 AM
Krewster Krewster is offline
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Minor aspect junkie...

After 4-ish decades on/off giving free readings (when the now-over day job permitted), I realized the minor aspects are not minor and began studying them one-by-one in the charts of my personally well-known natives about 4 years ago.
Tweaking the aspect set to mix about 20 major/minor aspects -up thru a denominator of 12- (w/ appropriate coloring, faintness, solid vs. dashed lines) only among planets seems to be the outer limits of visual readability. The resultant typical wheel bears 20-ish personal-planet-participating aspects tighter than 2.x degrees and rarely an unaspected planet.
While the pretty visuals make it fun to pick out the many configurations, reliance first on the aspect text listing ranked by orb (as tweaked) adjusts focus towards the handful of aspects tighter than one degree orb for most of the information needed to jump-start a chart reading process (including the chart's tightest triangle, etc).
The results continue to overwhelmingly satisfy (ymmv), while huge holes in understanding remain (e.g., the core natures of the 5, 7, 9, etc. series...some magic verb/adjective equally applicable to all planetary combos and to "average" querents not bent on becoming enlightened tomorrow).
So, in short, I hope to contribute and hope for your help.

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  #2  
Unread 06-11-2013, 06:15 PM
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wilsontc wilsontc is offline
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Welcome! to Krewster

Krewster,

YOu said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krewster View Post
After 4-ish decades on/off giving free readings (when the now-over day job permitted), I realized the minor aspects are not minor and began studying them one-by-one in the charts of my personally well-known natives about 4 years ago.
So, in short, I hope to contribute and hope for your help.
Welcome! I hope you make a major impact with your minor aspects!

Welcoming,

Tim
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  #3  
Unread 08-16-2013, 01:39 AM
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poyi poyi is offline
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Re: Minor aspect junkie...

I personally reckon. The minor aspects have anomalous potentials, possible answers to people are different even they were born same place, on the same day and same time by hour, minutes. It would be by seconds that will make a very interesting different when measures by minor aspects.

Anyway, when I do give birth one day, I will definitely get my husband to assist me to get the exact time for the first breath our child took.

A log book of events with accurate time would be very interesting to have...

With you here, we shall have increase awareness and knowledge about minor aspects.
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I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery. --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World
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  #4  
Unread 08-16-2013, 03:55 AM
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waybread waybread is offline
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Re: Minor aspect junkie...

You might enjoy reading Harding and Harvey, Working with Astrology. They sometimes use very high harmonics, by devolping key meanings for major aspects/harmonics, and then combining their meaning.

So for example, the 21H consists of 3x7, combining the ease and delight of the trine with the creative dimension of the septile. The 20H consists of the 2-series' need for development and expression (2x2) with the 5-series need for manifesting one's talent.

David Hamblin has a recent book out on the harmonics of prime numbers-- perhaps you've seen it.

I think if you play around with harmonics, you can really see what motivates people.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
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  #5  
Unread 08-16-2013, 06:09 AM
Krewster Krewster is offline
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Re: Minor aspect junkie...

Thanks for the responses and interest.

Poyi, your response suggests the minors give the microsopic, fine-tuning view (timing-wise). Although after 4 years of daily focus on the minors I still have the sense that the minor flush out the 3D-type details ("what motivates people" perhaps, as Waybread suggests), no observations (of natives in action) suggest to me the importance of micro-timing but, rather, that the influence of minors (up to a 12 denominator beyond which I lose interest/focus) in a native's chart equals that of the majors (and so, for example, a one degree loose quintile will be, say, 3 x as strong as a 3 degree orbed trine). In an unintended way, nevertheless, your micro-timing focus becomes relevant because when including all 20-ish major/minor aspects in the same chart wheel (w/ text listings ranked by orb for easier review of relative strength) a typical chart will display upwards of 20 aspects tighter than 3 degrees, providing so much information that little need is felt to look beyond such orb (and, therefore for example, the ranked-by-orb aspects to the moon change very significantly each hour or so).

If you're motivated along these lines, I'll PM you an image of your chart using Sirius to display what I've described above.


Waybread, EJ53 tried to get me looking into that type of endlessly smaller and smaller harmonic microscopic view and I balked for several reasons (partly described in a response I may have posted in your direction a couple of months ago in an astro.com thread). As novel and intriguing as that multiplier system is, I'm more fascinated with the apparent possibility that the whole harmonic system was invented to cope with calculation difficulties in the pre-computer age when what I see as its main limitation could be forgiven (i.e., that it conceals aspect triangles and other lovely configs formed by major and minor aspects hooking up). I've compiled a cagetorized list of over 200 such configs with personally well-known natives assigned to each as relevant and enjoy the process of discerning commonality of influences among them. Adding this to the still unsolved mysteries of the core meanings of the 7 and 11 series aspects (having now resolved the 5's and 9's to my tentative satisfaction) provides plenty of motivational focus for continued self-study of personally well-known natives without having to open the door to endless numbers of overloaded harmonic information.

Along these lines, I'm always in the market for new study buddies and would be happy to illustrate how this works in action if you wanna throw me a birthdate for one of your personally well-knowns via PM.
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  #6  
Unread 08-16-2013, 03:23 PM
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poyi poyi is offline
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Re: Minor aspect junkie...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krewster View Post
Poyi, your response suggests the minors give the microsopic, fine-tuning view (timing-wise). Although after 4 years of daily focus on the minors I still have the sense that the minor flush out the 3D-type details ("what motivates people" perhaps, as Waybread suggests), no observations (of natives in action) suggest to me the importance of micro-timing but, rather, that the influence of minors (up to a 12 denominator beyond which I lose interest/focus) in a native's chart equals that of the majors (and so, for example, a one degree loose quintile will be, say, 3 x as strong as a 3 degree orbed trine). In an unintended way, nevertheless, your micro-timing focus becomes relevant because when including all 20-ish major/minor aspects in the same chart wheel (w/ text listings ranked by orb for easier review of relative strength) a typical chart will display upwards of 20 aspects tighter than 3 degrees, providing so much information that little need is felt to look beyond such orb (and, therefore for example, the ranked-by-orb aspects to the moon change very significantly each hour or so).

If you're motivated along these lines, I'll PM you an image of your chart using Sirius to display what I've described above.
I would love to have an image of my chart as I don't have professional program, not investing on it as not really working as professional astrologer so thought myself not having such need yet.

While doing research, I saw some people mentioning about use of Transiting Septile.
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I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery. --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World
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  #7  
Unread 08-16-2013, 06:41 PM
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waybread waybread is offline
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Re: Minor aspect junkie...

Krewster, thanks. Let me mull through my files a bit and see who has some interesting minor aspects. Unfortunately most of my private person charts won't have birth times.

Poyi, I hope you will start working with harmonic charts. If you don't have software that will show minor aspects readily, a harmonic chart will show the aspect in question as a conjunction. Then you can either read the harmonic chart as such, or else note the H chart conjunctions and look for them in the radix chart by sign, house, &c. Of course, a close conjunction in the radix chart will also show up in any H chart, so you have to back it out of your harmonic consideration. Of course, a close conjunction in the natal will still be powerful in the H chart, just not a septile, novile, or what-have-you.

Krewster, speaking of Astrodienst, there was a thread on septiles there a few months ago, and someone noted how a lot of scientists have their sun involved in a septile aspect. A septile wouldn't always seem to indicate metaphysical connections, but more the ability to grasp realities-beneath realities; or to at least think you see them, as sometimes yesterday's science gets discarded with newer research.

I am posting two charts for Julian Assange. I think his radix chart looks so-so in terms of his impact on the world. His 7th harmonic chart, however, shows a vivid grand cross. We could translate this 7H as someone driven to manifest (2-series, squares) hidden information (7-series.) (I'm not a fan of Julian Assange, BTW, but I do think the 7H chart shows what motivates him.)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg julian_assange_progression & solar arc.jpg (91.2 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Julian Assange 7H chart.jpg (70.6 KB, 5 views)
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And well change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #8  
Unread 08-16-2013, 10:07 PM
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poyi poyi is offline
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Re: Minor aspect junkie...

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Poyi, I hope you will start working with harmonic charts. If you don't have software that will show minor aspects readily, a harmonic chart will show the aspect in question as a conjunction. Then you can either read the harmonic chart as such, or else note the H chart conjunctions and look for them in the radix chart by sign, house, &c. Of course, a close conjunction in the radix chart will also show up in any H chart, so you have to back it out of your harmonic consideration. Of course, a close conjunction in the natal will still be powerful in the H chart, just not a septile, novile, or what-have-you.

I am posting two charts for Julian Assange. I think his radix chart looks so-so in terms of his impact on the world. His 7th harmonic chart, however, shows a vivid grand cross. We could translate this 7H as someone driven to manifest (2-series, squares) hidden information (7-series.) (I'm not a fan of Julian Assange, BTW, but I do think the 7H chart shows what motivates him.)
Thank you for your information and suggestions. I had posted my 7th Harmonic in the Septiles, Biseptiles and Triseptiles post.

I was just thinking of Julian Assange yesterday interestingly you also thought of him. He is the very good representation of the Septiles series among our known current figure. Thanks for you posting the charts. Very interesting and it formed some significant statements there but I have no ability to interpret but Symbolically very interesting.
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I believe there is something of the divine mystery in everything that exists. We can see it sparkle in a sunflower or a poppy. We sense more of the unfathomable mystery in a butterfly that flutters from a twig--or in a goldfish swimming in a bowl. But we are closest to God in our own soul. Only there can we become one with the greatest mystery of life. In truth, at very rare moments we can experience that we ourselves are that divine mystery. --Jostein Gaarder, Sophie's World
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  #9  
Unread 08-16-2013, 10:34 PM
Krewster Krewster is offline
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Re: Minor aspect junkie...

Maybe I am ignorant of basic harmonic chart reading principles but it seems like a convenient mixing of metaphors to apply "driven to manifest" 2 series identifiers to Assange's 7th H chart simply because the harmonic calculation system chooses for expedience to visually display septiles etc as 90 or 180 degree lines.

In the meantime, yes indeed his 7th harmonic chart grand cross strikingly suggests something special which is viewable in one-shot and, thus, potentially useful (if one is focused enough to look at, say, the first 12 H charts for each and every native under study, looking for fancy patterns that have no correlation to what was physically happening in the sky at the birth time).

The more messy visual (as displayed at home and evidently subject to some confusion about birth time) follows:

http://imageshack.us/a/img819/9990/rahc.jpg

Without wishing to duplicate pre-existing, in-depth discussions about Assange's chart, it appears noteworthy that 10 of his 18 tightest aspects are 7 (and 14) denominator series aspects (including a Moon-Merc septile triangulated by each of Mars and Sat into their own 7 series triangles) and that his Sun suffers both the 90 to Uran and 135 to Jup (signalling a fated roughness even without reference to septile family aspects).

No conclusions here (at 3 a.m.) but just to say again there's enough bang looking at the planets as they were actually positioned in the sky(declinations aside) rather than risking the ability to find any cause/effect desired by exposing oneself to the information overload seemingly afforded by the harmonic chart system(s).

Amazing, really, that so many astrologers daring into these waters would rather take such risk than tweak their own program's aspect set.
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  #10  
Unread 08-17-2013, 03:23 AM
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waybread waybread is offline
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Re: Minor aspect junkie...

Krewster, I found Harding and Harvey's Working with Astrology to be tough slogging at first, but once I understood their method I found it fairly simple to use. Namely:

1. Get a good grasp of the meaning of the basic prime number aspects. They offer key words on these. For example, a trine means delight or ease.

2. With a higher harmonic, simply combine the key words. The square in a 7H chart indicates tension, but also a real need to express and manifest. The 7-series seems to relate to faculties of perception of other realities, and is sometimes called the number of inspiration. So if we look at tight squares in the 7H chart (or combine them via the 28H chart) we see in Assange the quality of inspiration and belief in a reality beyond the given one (in his case, government secrets.) But with the grand cross, it requires effort and struggle to manifest his revelations.

3. Read the harmonic chart through the lense of the harmonic in question. For example, in a 5H chart, we are looking through the lense of the person's talent and ambition to manifest it. If we see that the 5H looks important for that person, with some exact oppositions in the 5H, then the 10H might be an important dynamic in the person's life.

Alternatively, we can take the the harmonic chart information back to the radix chart, where you can include houses and the radix sign placements. (A harmonic chart doesn't use houses and some people feel signs are meaningless. It is simply a convenient way to delineate aspects.)

A 7H chart or looking at septiles in a radix chart amount to the same thing. The harmonic chart just has a different way of displaying "what was in the sky".

Astrologers read a lot of charts that have nothing to do with "what was in the sky" at the time of someone's birth. Solar arc charts or composite charts would be two example. We look at a lot of data that were never in the sky, like Arabic parts, house cusps, Black Moon Lilith, and the traditionalist's terms and faces.

I don't have my own astrological software to "tweak" so I find Astrodienst harmonic charts to be a quick and easy way to see if someone has an aspect of interest. It's a lot easier than locating septiles or noviles by hand.

I've spent some time looking at harmonic charts and minor aspects, and I think they do give a sense of what motivates the individual. So if I had the software to show minor aspect lines in the radix chart, I would probably use it.

Of course Vedic astrologers have been using harmonic charts for a long time!
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And well change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 08-17-2013 at 03:34 AM.
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