Are Traits different for the Signs in Vedic Astrology?

I just got started into Vedic Astrology.

When I calulated my Chart, I got Libra Rising which shocked me.Scorpio Rising is my Ascendant in Tropical Astrology.So I was like "Wait Libra Rising Doesn't match me!Scorpio Rising fits me more!

However I read more and more on Vedic Astrology and it seem very much that the previous signs may contain the traits of your current Rising Sign.I'm no expert so there may be errors but I'll use my own chart.

In Western Astrology I'm a Scorpio Rising and Scorpio Rising are infamous for their vengeful and vindictive nature as well as their magnetism and lust.

So when I first found out I'm a Thula (Libra) Ascendant in Vedic Astrology, I was like WTF "That doesn't fit me!".

However the more I read about the Ascendant in Vedic Astrology, the more I felt it matches me. In Vedic Astrology, Thula Risers are known to be magnetic and vengeful. Also they are often attractive people with Sexual Charisma.All these traits that are part of Scorpio Rising in Western Astrology but sort of missing in Vedic Astrology.Also to add in Vedic Astrology, Thula Rising are known to have strong willpower as opposed to the Libra Risers in the Tropical sytem.

VRISHCHAK (Scorpio) Ascendant in Vedic Astrology are generally not associated with the magnetism and vengeful natures of their Tropical Counterpart. However they have the legendary perseverance and willpower of the Tropical Versions as well as the Secretive, traits in Tropic Scorpio Risers.

And as opposed to Scorpio Risers, Vrishcak Risers are known to be good debators and orators, something Libra Rising is known to have in the Tropical Astrology.


So I think Vedic Astrology Signs may have different traits fromt heir Tropical Counterpart . If you're say about 26° Libra Rising in Tropical Astrology, you'd definitely have a vindictive, if not vengeful nature, as you'd be on the very low degrees of Libra Rising in Vedic Astrology. Even if you're Scorpio Rising in Vedic Astrology, you'd still match the description as Thula Rising because Libra has so much of Scorpio's traits in Vedic Astrology.

Am I correct with this interpretation?Note I'm a Noob to the Vedic System and I only researched the Ascendants seeing that I was Thula Rising in Vedic and Scorpio Rising in Tropical.

So in the end after reading the Description of Libra Rising in Vedic Astrology Sites, I thought it match me near-spot on minus the sexy charisma and attractiveness (though I'll have both within 6 months) and felt I didn't match the Scorpio Rising in Vedic Astrology (though I match its description spot on in Tropical Astrology).

I'm eager to learn more about the Vedic system !

There are certain qualitative differences, but fundamentally the indications are the same for Vedic and tropical (Western) signs; Vedic though carries the ancient meanings more fully than Modernist Western astrology does and a comparison of the signs in Traditionalist (tropical) astrology is pretty much near exact to the Vedic delineations.

I've seen this idea before, and no, I don't think they are really different. The signs are simply in different places.

I find it more helpful to think about planetary characteristics. The rulerships are what define the signs.

It seems popular to think of the signs as entities of their with their own characters divorced from anything else, but Aries is Aries because of an association with Mars, and Libra is similarly associated with Venus.

I prefer to steer clear of generalising about what the signs mean and instead look at what the ruling planet of the sign is doing within the chart.

Libra is always influenced by Venus, but Venus can come in 12 different sign and 12 different house flavours, and who knows how many combinations of aspects.

Moog said:

I find it more helpful to think about planetary characteristics. The rulerships are what define the signs.

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However doesn't the Vedic have less Planets the the Tropical System?

So would the traits associated with the Generational Influences of Tropical Astrology simply go into the existing planets in Vedic like Venus?Or is there something Vedic has that Tropical lacks?

Still I was surprised how much I matched Libra Rising in Vedic and how the description seemed more Scorpio than the Tropical System's Description.

Yes Vedic astrology (mainstream Vedic) uses only 7 planets (Modernist Western uses 10, including the 3 outers) However Vedic also elevates the 2 Lunar Nodes (North Node and South Node) to essentially planetary status and makes much use of them, so in fact the Vedic system(s) really look at 9 "planets".
Vedic also makes extensive use of 28 other Cosmic factors, the nakshatras (Lunar Mansions), which were once also used in Western astrology but no longer play a role in Modernist (nor, indeed in contemporary Traditionalist) astrological practice.

Pisces Adonis said:

However doesn't the Vedic have less Planets the the Tropical System?

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Use of the tropical zodiac is technically something separate to the use of outer planets. Though they often go together. Some Vedic astrologers use the outer planets too.

Less planets is not necessarily a handicap or disability or something. Less is more, as they say.

So would the traits associated with the Generational Influences of Tropical Astrology simply go into the existing planets in Vedic like Venus?Or is there something Vedic has that Tropical lacks?

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A lot of the significations given to the outers are assigned to the nodes in Indian astrology. So you might like to check those out.

Something I wrote on the subject

No real comments to pass on 'Generational effects'. I can't say that I know the outer planets have no astrological effect. They might have a place in mundane astrology, something I've not really gotten into yet. I haven't found modern applications of them to natal charts useful at all.

Moog said:

No real comments to pass on 'Generational effects'. I can't say that I know the outer planets have no astrological effect. They might have a place in mundane astrology, something I've not really gotten into yet. I haven't found modern applications of them to natal charts useful at all.

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They affect the direction your generation is headed to.

However the greatest effect they would bring on a person is if your Ascendant is in that planet. It would practically increase the Ascendant's power by a much larger extent. From what I read, if your Ascendant is in Scorpio and your Pluto is in Scorpio, your Scorpio Rising would dominate your chart as a result.I'm not sure about the Scorpio Rising dominating the whole chart, but practically the outer Planets increases your Ascendant's power if the associated planet is the ruler of your Ascendant's sign and at the time of birth its practically in the same sign as your Ascendant IE Pluto rules Scorpio and Scorpio is in Pluto as well as Scorpio is your Ascendant=Much Increased Effects of Scorpio Rising.

Also the Aspects of the Outer Planets can affect your Personality greatly.

For example my Mars may be in Aquarius but since my Mars Squares my Pluto, my SEX DRIVE is VERY HIGH. It doesn't help my Pluto is in Scorpio and I have a Scorpio Rising.

Pisces Adonis said:

They affect the direction your generation is headed to.

However the greatest effect they would bring on a person is if your Ascendant is in that planet. It would practically increase the Ascendant's power by a much larger extent. From what I read, if your Ascendant is in Scorpio and your Pluto is in Scorpio, your Scorpio Rising would dominate your chart as a result.I'm not sure about the Scorpio Rising dominating the whole chart, but practically the outer Planets increases your Ascendant's power if the associated planet is the ruler of your Ascendant's sign and at the time of birth its practically in the same sign as your Ascendant IE Pluto rules Scorpio and Scorpio is in Pluto as well as Scorpio is your Ascendant=Much Increased Effects of Scorpio Rising.

Also the Aspects of the Outer Planets can affect your Personality greatly.

For example my Mars may be in Aquarius but since my Mars Squares my Pluto, my SEX DRIVE is VERY HIGH. It doesn't help my Pluto is in Scorpio and I have a Scorpio Rising.

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Are you sure that's why?

Moog said:

Are you sure that's why?

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Hmmm I'm assuming you're not that familiar with Tropical Astrology?

For Sex Drive in Tropical Astrology its the placements of Venus, 5th House, and most importantly Mars and its aspects that affects Sex Drive and Romance.

Pisces Adonis said:

Hmmm I'm assuming you're not that familiar with Tropical Astrology?

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Tropical astrology - both Western/Eastern and sidereal astrology – both Western/Eastern - are only two different WAYS of measuring the same phenomenon i.e. Earth's yearly orbit around the sun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-DYgGFjI&feature=related

Pisces Adonis said:

For Sex Drive in Tropical Astrology its the placements of Venus, 5th House, and most importantly Mars and its aspects that affects Sex Drive and Romance.

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Not all Tropical astrologers would agree with this contention

Pisces Adonis said:

Hmmm I'm assuming you're not that familiar with Tropical Astrology?

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I'm as familiar as I need to be to ask if you're sure.

Moog said:

I'm as familiar as I need to be to ask if you're sure.

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I'm confused everywhere I go esp. Yahoo Answers Horoscopes, they always state its the Mars and Aspects that affects Sex drive.


Anyway the reason I posted this thread is people are always bashing Vedic Astrology because their signs are different and it doesn't match them.

I admit when I was calculating my chart days ago, I almost threw Vedic Out of the Window when it gave me a Libra Rising until I read more and more on Libra and vedic and it begins to make sense as opposed to the Western Description.

Thats why I posted this thread-there's so much confusion over Vedic VS Tropical and people seem to only judge their Vedic Charts based on the Tropical Interpretations and definitions. However as I read more on Libra in Vedic, it seems Libra has traits associated with Scorpio in Tropical Astrology.

So I want to learn more about Vedic because of all the bashing it gives for "Giving the Wrong Sign"! I hear all the time in the internet.

Pisces Adonis said:

I'm confused everywhere I go esp. Yahoo Answers Horoscopes, they always state its the Mars and Aspects that affects Sex drive.

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I have less contention with the idea of Mars having an association with sex. My problem is more with the assertion that Pluto is a cause of an exacerbation of sex drive. If this could be demonstrated to be true in more cases than not, then I'd be interested.

Anyway the reason I posted this thread is people are always bashing Vedic Astrology because their signs are different and it doesn't match them.

I admit when I was calculating my chart days ago, I almost threw Vedic Out of the Window when it gave me a Libra Rising until I read more and more on Libra and vedic and it begins to make sense as opposed to the Western Description.

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I was very skeptical of my sidereal Leo Moon at first.

Thats why I posted this thread-there's so much confusion over Vedic VS Tropical and people seem to only judge their Vedic Charts based on the Tropical Interpretations and definitions. However as I read more on Libra in Vedic, it seems Libra has traits associated with Scorpio in Tropical Astrology.

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I think we really do need to separate the zodiac in use from the practices within certain cultures of astrology. I've rubbed shoulders with people who use a sidereal zodiac with a very modern style of interpretation and use of outer planets, etc. I also know 'Vedic' astrologers who use the tropical zodiac and outer planets.

I'm still not sure where the Libra association with vindictiveness comes from. This sounds like a very specific trait. What is the 'astro math' behind that statement? Without knowing how that statement has been arrived at, I feel unequipped to deal with this idea at all.

So I want to learn more about Vedic because of all the bashing it gives for "Giving the Wrong Sign"! I hear all the time in the internet.

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Amusingly, astrology 'debunkers' often attack tropical astrology for the same reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQPFoDkGFrU

I don't really encounter a lot of 'bashing' thankfully. Most people seem fairly 'live and let live' about it.

I largely accept Mars and Scorpio as important influences on sex drive, with Libra and Taurus, under Venus, close by, although these latter are more involved with the love/sharing component (especially Libra), whereas Mars is more the "raw sex drive" (watery Scorpio has other components involved with the sexual activities, although these are of a different quality than those of Libra and Taurus)

My understanding in this particular area has been greatly influenced by Charles Carter (early Modernist pioneer) especially through his "Essays on the Foundations of Astrology" and his "The Zodiac and the Soul"; also by the now nearly unknown writings of W.H. Sampson * (also an early Modernist author)

*Sampson's major works are "The Zodiac: a Life Eptione" and "The 12 Houses of the Zodiac", which are rather difficult to obtain at the present time...

Moog said:

I'm still not sure where the Libra association with vindictiveness comes from. This sounds like a very specific trait. What is the 'astro math' behind that statement? Without knowing how that statement has been arrived at, I feel unequipped to deal with this idea at all.

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Just stuff I read online.

Though the deeper I get into Vedic Astrology the more I notice Libra tends to be associated with Scorpio Traits such as interest in the Occult and Dramatic life.

However as you mentioned, one sshould judge the signs within the context of their own system rather than interpretations based on the Signs from other systems.

Historically we know that Libra was "carved out" of Scorpio in the Greek synthesis of astrology (back around c.200 BC), and for many centuries after Libra was still frequently referred to as "the Claws" (historical research into very ancient astrology finds that 10 signs were used in Egypt and Sumeria/Babylon for ages prior to the Alexandrian synthesis, beginning around 300-200 BC; Scorpio was a giant sign/constellation, from which Libra and Virgo were later derived)

dr. farr said:

Historically we know that Libra was "carved out" of Scorpio in the Greek synthesis of astrology (back around c.200 BC), and for many centuries after Libra was still frequently referred to as "the Claws" (historical research into very ancient astrology finds that 10 signs were used in Egypt and Sumeria/Babylon for ages prior to the Alexandrian synthesis, beginning around 300-200 BC; Scorpio was a giant sign/constellation, from which Libra and Virgo were later derived)

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Fascinating. I feel that I can identify a little bit with traits from most of all 12 signs. Also, sex drive is not a constant, nor most personality traits.

Just generated my own Vedic Astroloogy chart. Like you say I am not sure if the signs themselves 'fit' with Pisces Asc, Libra Sun, Sagittarius moon and definitely not Mars in Libra.

But omg... The chart reading it generated (even though it was only an automatic one) is more spot on than any other I have ever read before, but like you say to me Pisces rising sounds a lot like my Western Aries rising:

According to your Horoscope, you will have a tall, upright and well-proportioned figure. You will
have an elongated face, rounded forehead with grey, brown or blue eyes - sparkling and
expressive. You will have fair complexion and receding hairline balding about the temples. You
will be of athletic building and will be fond of athletics and other expeditious activities.

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(From astrobix.com)

I absolutely love the style of Vedic Astrology readings. I don't know what it is but they are so specific and direct and to the point, and very accurate.

Thanks for your post Pisces Adonis, will definitely be looking into this a bit more.