what is traditional astrology?

dr. farr

Well-known member
For ME (that is, in my opinion) Traditional Astrology is the sum total of underlying concepts, definitions, delineative and predictive methods and techniques, taken originally from Greco-Roman Classical Period astrology, then modified and developed by astrologers in the Middle East and Europe during the Arabic Transitional Period and the European Medieval, Renaissance and Reformation periods, culminating during the late 17th/early 18th centuries, and revived by contemporary enthusiasts and practitioners who discovered and adopted (their understanding of this) Tradition, beginning in the early 1980's and continuing through to the present time.

In my opinion, the fundamental elements of this Tradition include the Tropical Zodiac of 12 signs, the 12 houses, the recognition and delineative meanings and predictive indications of the 7 planets and 2 Lunar nodes, and the stars, known to the science of astronomy prior to March 13, 1781, all within the framework of geocentric astronomy.
 
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AppLeo

Well-known member
Astrology as it traditionally was.

No Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.

More attention towards whether the chart is a day chart or night chart.

Traditional astrology goes by the western zodiac that ptolemy created.

Traditional astrology is more dry cut – meaning, out of sign aspects aren't counted, asteroids aren't taken into account..

The ascendant sign is more important than the sun sign. I think. I read somewhere that the ascendant was considered more important traditionally.

Planets that are in their rise, fall, debilitation, or exaltation is extremely important.

Traditional astrology is deeper, less "hip", and pays lots of attention to old astrological texts.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
For ME (that is, in my opinion) Traditional Astrology is the sum total of underlying concepts, definitions, delineative and predictive methods and techniques, taken originally from Greco-Roman Classical Period astrology, then modified and developed by astrologers in the Middle East and Europe during the Arabic Transitional Period and the European Medieval, Renaissance and Reformation periods, culminating during the late 17th/early 18th centuries, and revived by contemporary enthusiasts and practitioners who discovered and adopted (their understanding of this) Tradition, beginning in the early 1980's and continuing through to the present time.

In my opinion, the fundamental elements of this Tradition include the Tropical Zodiac of 12 signs, the 12 houses, the recognition and delineative meanings and predictive indications of the 7 planets and 2 Lunar nodes, and the stars, known to the science of astronomy prior to March 13, 1781, all within the framework of geocentric astronomy.
dr. farr - thankyou - you have studied astrology for more than fifty years
and so your definition carries weight of experience and practice
:smile:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
what is traditional astrology?
for informed definition as well as traditional astrological discussion and practice :smile:
then check out our traditional forum
at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=92


by the way
our traditional forum defines traditional astrology as follows:

Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700
by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras.
Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects
- sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction
and
excludes modern planets Neptune, Uranus and Pluto
non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids.

The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation
and more on prediction.
Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas
should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum
for further discussion.
 

Senecar

Well-known member
To me, all Astrological works / principles of William Liliy's and before him has been regarded as Traditional Astrology.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member

what is traditional astrology?

FREE ONLINE TRADITIONAL TEXTS :smile:
ON THE WEB
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/texts.html
There are five collections in this library.
  • The main collection contains links to books and magazines written in English that are directly related to 'traditional astrology' (from classical to modern times).
  • The extended collection refers to texts that are partly astrological or useful for historical research or philosophical principles.
  • The ancient collection contains links to ancient texts, fragments, or secondary sources that cover the ancient period.
  • The scholar's collection contains links to published theses, dissertations, and peer-reviewed papers.
  • The Latin & Greek collection contains links to important works in older languages
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
And so my opinion doesn't mean anything?

No, your opinion counts and does mean something.:smile:

Ptolemy did not create the zodiac used in Western astrology; however he suggested that it be a zodiac of SIGNS, rather than a zodiac of constellations; this suggestion became the basis for Greco-Roman astrology during the Classical Period, and subsequently in the West, both in Traditional and Modern Western astrology. There is, however, substantial evidence that Greco-Roman astrology PRIOR to Ptolemy, was looking at the zodiac as one of signs rather than as one of constellations.

I tend to agree with you that, as a generalization, the ascendant is given more relative importance in Traditional, than the Sun sign; however I must add that the spirit of Sol Invictus has permeated Traditional astrology to a great extent, and I would have to say that in my opinion, the Sun has been accorded much greater importance in Traditional astrology than in Modernist astrology (the sun-sign issue aside)

Planetary dignity (domicile, exaltation, detriment, fall) receives equal importance in Modernist astrological delineation as it does in Traditional astrology; however, more attention to the totality of dignities and detriments (combined essential and accidental) is given in Modernist astrology, whereas more of a division into essential and accidental is emphasized in Traditional astrology, which (in my opinion) continues to give emphasis to essential dignities and detriments over the accidentals.

I would disagree with the statement that Traditional astrology is "deeper" than Modernist astrology: some of the most philosophical/metaphysical works I have read vis-a-vis astrology, have come from authors of the Modernist approach. I do agree that Traditional pays a great deal of attention to the old time astrological books, which, of course, together form the elucidation of the basic principles and interpretations underlying the revived, contemporary Traditionalist movement.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member

FREE ONLINE TRADITIONAL TEXTS :smile:
ON THE WEB
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/texts.html
There are five collections in this library.
  • The main collection contains links to books and magazines written in English that are directly related to 'traditional astrology' (from classical to modern times).
  • The extended collection refers to texts that are partly astrological or useful for historical research or philosophical principles.
  • The ancient collection contains links to ancient texts, fragments, or secondary sources that cover the ancient period.
  • The scholar's collection contains links to published theses, dissertations, and peer-reviewed papers.
  • The Latin & Greek collection contains links to important works in older languages


From my perspective there are several books in the above mentioned lists which I disagree as representing Traditionalist astrology and which I consider to represent the initial stirrings of the Modernist astrological outlook:

-Bullinger's works ("Witness of the Stars")
Kepler's "Harmonie"
Raphael's works
Sibley's works
Zadkeil's works

Regarding Morin de Villefrance, I think his great opus (Astrologica Gallica) represents a significant modification of prior Traditionalist concepts, definitions and practices, and while not being exactly a break with Traditional, Morin's works represent a first influx of a new astrological perception, thereby opening the way for the gradual advent and rise of Modernist astrology (which started around the middle years of the 1800's particularly in England and in the USA)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
From my perspective there are several books in the above mentioned lists which I disagree as representing Traditionalist astrology and which I consider to represent the initial stirrings of the Modernist astrological outlook:

-Bullinger's works ("Witness of the Stars")
Kepler's "Harmonie"
Raphael's works
Sibley's works
Zadkeil's works

Regarding Morin de Villefrance, I think his great opus (Astrologica Gallica) represents a significant modification of prior Traditionalist concepts, definitions and practices, and while not being exactly a break with Traditional, Morin's works represent a first influx of a new astrological perception, thereby opening the way for the gradual advent and rise of Modernist astrology (which started around the middle years of the 1800's particularly in England and in the USA)
dr. farr you have an "eclectic" approach that combines Vedic with ancient and modern astrology :smile:
 

Senecar

Well-known member
For Traditional Medieval & Ancient Wisdom texts
check out traditional astrologer BENJAMIN DYKES :smile:

https://www.bendykes.com/
BENJAMIN DYKES translations from Arabic and Greek
are available at
https://www.bendykes.com/product-category/introductions/


Ben Dykes is not just a famous Astrology scholar, but also seemingly he is into other occult fields such as Hermeticism, Magic, Golden Dawn, Thelema Rituals, Kabbalah, Tarot and Theosophy, I think.
 

waybread

Well-known member
No, your opinion counts and does mean something.:smile:

Ptolemy did not create the zodiac used in Western astrology; however he suggested that it be a zodiac of SIGNS, rather than a zodiac of constellations; this suggestion became the basis for Greco-Roman astrology during the Classical Period, and subsequently in the West, both in Traditional and Modern Western astrology. There is, however, substantial evidence that Greco-Roman astrology PRIOR to Ptolemy, was looking at the zodiac as one of signs rather than as one of constellations.

I tend to agree with you that, as a generalization, the ascendant is given more relative importance in Traditional, than the Sun sign; however I must add that the spirit of Sol Invictus has permeated Traditional astrology to a great extent, and I would have to say that in my opinion, the Sun has been accorded much greater importance in Traditional astrology than in Modernist astrology (the sun-sign issue aside)

Planetary dignity (domicile, exaltation, detriment, fall) receives equal importance in Modernist astrological delineation as it does in Traditional astrology; however, more attention to the totality of dignities and detriments (combined essential and accidental) is given in Modernist astrology, whereas more of a division into essential and accidental is emphasized in Traditional astrology, which (in my opinion) continues to give emphasis to essential dignities and detriments over the accidentals.

I would disagree with the statement that Traditional astrology is "deeper" than Modernist astrology: some of the most philosophical/metaphysical works I have read vis-a-vis astrology, have come from authors of the Modernist approach. I do agree that Traditional pays a great deal of attention to the old time astrological books, which, of course, together form the elucidation of the basic principles and interpretations underlying the revived, contemporary Traditionalist movement.

The Babylonians used signs ca. 500 BCE, prior to their astrology's diffusion to Greece; but they didn't use houses, so they did not have much in the way of true horoscopic astrology, which was Hellenistic. The idea of the ascendant was probably Egyptian, so Hellenized Egytians or Egyptianized Greeks put these different themes together. The Babylonians were very interested in predicting eclipses, which was hard to do against a backdrop of constellations of varying widths along the ecliptic. They also used the path of the moon as their ecliptic, not the sun.

I think that in both modern and traditional western astrology, we find the "good, the bad, and the ugly;" so it is important to be a connoisseur of what we read.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The Babylonians used signs ca. 500 BCE, prior to their astrology's diffusion to Greece; but they didn't use houses, so they did not have much in the way of true horoscopic astrology, which was Hellenistic. The idea of the ascendant was probably Egyptian, so Hellenized Egytians or Egyptianized Greeks put these different themes together. The Babylonians were very interested in predicting eclipses, which was hard to do against a backdrop of constellations of varying widths along the ecliptic. They also used the path of the moon as their ecliptic, not the sun.

I think that in both modern and traditional western astrology, we find the "good, the bad, and the ugly;" so it is important to be a connoisseur of what we read.
Babylonians and Mesopotamians viewed and observed their local skies
without using computers :smile:
and were practiced at eclipse prediction based on actual observation
in fact modern day claims as to Babylonian and Mesopotamian astrology
are based solely on REMAINING evidence that has SO FAR been found
AND
many thousands of ancient cuneiform tablets are untranslated
AND
thousands more have been destroyed by bombings of museums in the Middle East
and so no one can say for certain how ancient astrologers "delineated"
HOWEVER
for expert reliable information on MESOPOTAMIAN AND ANCIENT ASTROLOGY
as well as
SEMINARs in MESOPOTAMIAN and ANCIENT ASTROLOGY
Varna, BULGARIA
next Seminar for 2017 is July 11-16 (Tuesday-Sunday)

renowned scholar RUMEN KOLEV is fluent in Greek, Latin and several other languages
http://www.babylonianastrology.com/
 

waybread

Well-known member
The best book I've found so far on Babylonian astrology is Francesca Rochberg, The Heavenly Writing, published by Cambridge University Press. She has an endowed chair of ancient languages at UC-Berkeley. There are also two good books by Gavin White in the Babylonian constellations-- see Babylonian Sky Lore. The Dawn of Astrology-- vol. 1 in a 2-part history of astrology by Nicholas Campion is highly recommended.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

BABYLONIAN AND ANCIENT ASTROLOGY
SECOND LEVEL
predictive techniques and the Newest Research Results :smile:
14-15-16 July, 2017

http://www.babylonianastrology.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=44

also

A CORRESPONDENCE COURSE IN ANCIENT MESOPOTAMIAN ASTROLOGY

as practiced from 5 500 BC to AD 75.
Ancient Mesopotamian Astrology
according to the tradition
directly from the illumination of the first Hermes
the prophet Enoh
Lord Enmeduranki from pre-diluvial Sippar in 5 500 BC.
This course strives to be a complete reconstruction of Mesopotamian Astrology
as it was practiced from 5 500 BC to 75 AD.
The main points of its blue-print are found in texts with information directly
from 5 500 BC (Astrolabe i.e. 3-stars-each)
or 1 300 BC (MUL.APIN)
or
texts as old as the Gilgamesh and the Creation epos (Enuma elish)
and, of course, Enuma Anu Enlil with earliest sources from 2 300 BC (Sargon the Great omina).
details of the attempted reconstruction are coming from the last restoration
of the Astral Revelation made by the third Hermes in around 770 BC.
This system is evident from the LBAT 1499 series of tablets
and will be explained in the course.
The reconstruction is achieved by examination of original texts in Akkadian.
 
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