Attack that Astrology (esp basics) so vague it can be applied to Anyone?

I remember a while back in a gaming forum I go to, one guy commented that he got a Moon in Cancer in a thread I created and he stated while some of the things does match him, he was rather skeptical because so many of the statements were so vague. Particularly on "Cancer Moons are homely". His response was "wouldn't anyone be most comfortable in their home?"

I seen similar attacks on Astrology and now that I think of it, they do have a point. So many statements in Astrology such as "Geminis are the bookworms of the Zodiac" are rather vague themselves. I mean wouldn't most intellectuals and scholars be bookworms themselves? How exactly does being a bookworm separate Geminis from other signs considering in some occupations and social subcultures READING is a must.

Another favorite is the claim to attack us that Scorpio is the Rebel of the Zodiac. Actually I already can easily counter this with examples and explanations of my own but they do have a point. Wouldn't most kids have been rebels at some point in their lives?

I may be an enthusiast of Astrology but I will be the first one to support skeptics in the "its vague that it can be applied to anyone" argument. I won't deny it helped me a lot but I will quickly admit its so vague at times it can indeed apply to anyone unless one decides to look at the whole chart(which most skeptics and the general populace won't).

I actually enjoy playing Devil's Advocate recently and bringing up both common sense and scientific statements to debunk Astrology! Not only does it help me understand Astrology more but it also helps me realize to get away from the groupthink this hobby is seriously full of as I seen on a few Astrology forums including one where I got banned from.

Besides unless you study your whole natal chart, Astrology interpretations-even taking into account deeper concepts such as Moon Signs and Ascendant-is indeed vague. Its only when you start reading the whole chart and analyzing how different placements interact with each other does it truly begin to become (scarily) accurate.

But even when you start reading the whole chart, unless you learn the fundamentals of the basic planets such as what the Moon and Venus does and what the aspects are, reading a whole chart and trying to see how different concepts interact with each other still remains vague. It takes at least 6 months to even get the basics down to read the overall spirit of your chart.

So I completely empathize and side with the general populace, skeptics, and scientist who bash Astrology because of having such vague descriptions. I agree unless you get deep enough to learn basic jargons, Astrology descriptions are indeed vague as hell that you would feel you're reading a con artist if you use common sense and skepticism!
 

mina23

Active member
This is why I hate it when all my friends ask me "hey what is a scorpio like?" or "what are the traits of a leo?" YES it's vague! So this is why you consult the whole chart OR just study the signs more in depth. There's so much more to a Gemini than being smart. Considering the planet symbolism that rules over a sign would help, as well as getting familiarized with physical descriptions/traits of the signs...that's where things get weird.
 

kimbermoon

Well-known member
'Astrology is not something to believe in, it is something to know about'...Grant Lewi. Yes there is a problem with cookbook interpretations in terms of individualized considerations, for all factors of the chart must be taken into consideration in order to clarify the simplistic statements. It all depends on whether there be afflictions to a sign, or more supportive aspects, as to whether the expression will be positive or negative in nature. I always look to the aspects of planets before translating their characteristics, and I believe many here do. Still it is good to hear from skeptics as well...it gives us perspective, so thanks for that.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I may be an enthusiast of Astrology but I will be the first one to support skeptics in the "its vague that it can be applied to anyone" argument. I won't deny it helped me a lot but I will quickly admit its so vague at times it can indeed apply to anyone unless one decides to look at the whole chart(which most skeptics and the general populace won't).
Traditional astrology is specific - not vague :smile:

- an example from 'Delineating Natal Chart' at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=377493#post377493
Here I want to open a discussion (alongside with practical examination) for delineating natal charts. I think this is the most important thing in Astrology delineation sessions because the predictions only give that which is promised in the natal chart.
I will use Alcabitius house system but will add to the delineation sporadically whole signs.
I intent to gave different examples of different themes or subject in different people's charts.
For example, we will use examination of 11th house for delineating native's friends or social life. 7th house for native's marriage and partnership. 9th house for native's religion, faith, journeys and etc..

Lets start with example.

9rpnk4.png


This is a chart of a woman who is about 39 of age.
Lets call her Woman 39.
Her love life is awful. She is almolst 40 and still single. She had some relationships in the past but nothing worked out and as she said to me: "I've accepted the fact that I will maybe be single for the whole of my life".

Lets examine her 7th house.
It falls in Leo.
First we look to find a planets there, because the dominion by placement is much more immediate and powerful then dominion by rulership.
There are no planets in the 7th house.
Second, we look at the Domicile ruler of the house cusp, that is the Sun.
Third we look at the Almuten of the House, in this case Sun again because it is Domicile ruler and one of the Triplicity rulers (5+3).
Fourth, we look at all the minor dignity rulers.
Domicile: Sun
Exaltation: None
Triplicity: Sun, Jupiter, Saturn
Term: Jupiter
Decan: Saturn
Fifth, according to Abu Ali we need to consider the Arabic Parts related to the matters of the house we delineate. In this case that would be Part of Marriage. I use the Part of Marriage according to Paulus: ASC + SA - VE for Women, reversed for Man.
Her Part of Marriage falls again in 7th in Leo15, again in the terms and decan of Saturn/Jupiter.

"All the good or bad for the house emanates from its ruler", this is one of the rules for delineating.

In this case, great ruler of the 7th house is the Sun. It is in 9th with the Moon. (I think that I read in Cardanus, but I'm not sure if it was Cardanus, that the person with Moon combust would probably not be married).

We need to mention here the 4 most common afflictions cited by Bonatti (he actually gives 10, but 4 of them according to Zoller are most in use):
1. Retrogradation
2. Combustion
3. Cadent
4. Conjuntion, Square or Opposition by Malefic

So, having this in mind lets examine all the rulers of the 7th.
Sun is in 9th (cadent) making opposition to Mars in 3rd Retrograde. (Two rules of affliction are present: cadent and opposition with malefic).
Jupiter (2nd Triplicity ruler) is in tide square to the same Mars.
Saturn is cadent in 6th, Retrograde and in conjunction to the Cauda Draconis (decreasing all which conjunct).

It seems out that that Mars retrogarde, in detriment, and cadent in 3rd is the source of many troubles in her life.
 
'Astrology is not something to believe in, it is something to know about'...Grant Lewi. Yes there is a problem with cookbook interpretations in terms of individualized considerations, for all factors of the chart must be taken into consideration in order to clarify the simplistic statements. It all depends on whether there be afflictions to a sign, or more supportive aspects, as to whether the expression will be positive or negative in nature. I always look to the aspects of planets before translating their characteristics, and I believe many here do. Still it is good to hear from skeptics as well...it gives us perspective, so thanks for that.

I made a few skeptical threads too if you're interested I can PM it to you (they're still on the first page of the Natal Reading section) ;).
 

wintersprite1

Premium Member
This thread has been moved off the Traditional Subforum and provoking and rude posts have been removed. Discussion is great, as long as it does not involve personal attacks.
 
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