lostinstars
Well-known member
I don't get what you are trying to say. How is this valid to the discussion? Are you trying to say with aspects alone you can have astrology?
Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology
- Thread starter lostinstars
- Start date
I don't get what you are trying to say. How is this valid to the discussion? Are you trying to say with aspects alone you can have astrology?
david starling
Well-known member
Hmmm. Lostinstars, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm getting the distinct impression that you disapprove of mixing astrology with any psychological concept whatsoever, even if it's just as an adjunct to astrology.
david starling
Well-known member
Yes, because what's basic to astrology is the firm belief that astronomical configurations have a direct connection to our personalities and our experiences in life. THAT'S what true skeptics proclaim as being "superstitious nonsense". Kepler remained an astrologer despite rejecting the Houses and Signs.
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david starling
Well-known member
Lostinstars, are you comfortable with people you associate with knowing that you "believe in astrology"? A lot of us are careful about who knows, because that causes some to doubt one's rationality. 
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
modernist sun sign astrology is regarded as fairground entertainmentLostinstars, are you comfortable with people you associate with
knowing that you "believe in astrology"?
A lot of us are careful about who knows, because
that causes some to doubt one's rationality.
few are aware of traditional astrology
david starling
Well-known member
modernist sun sign astrology is regarded as fairground entertainment
few are aware of traditional astrology
Why are so few "aware of 'Traditional ' astrology"?
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
modernist sun sign astrology is regarded as fairground entertainmentLostinstars, are you comfortable with people you associate with
knowing that you "believe in astrology"?
A lot of us are careful about who knows, because
that causes some to doubt one's rationality.
few are aware of traditional astrology
most onlin forums are predominantly modernist
david starling
Well-known member
Many in the West are aware of Vedic astrology, but prefer their tropical Sun-sign descriptions.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Vedic is predominantly eastern, not a western interest
our forum is predominantly modernist tropical
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Clearly not read or studied HELLENISTIC astrologer Vettius Valens
https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
Vettius Valens discarded nothing
Vettius Valens' Anthologiae is the longest extant astrological work from antiquity.
It is unique in several respects
the author was a practicing astrologer
the work includes more than 100 authentic horoscopes of Valens' clients or associates
including his own, which is used as an example many times throughout the work
the work also includes tables and the description of algorithms used by astrologers and mathematicians.
Valens THE ANTHOLOGY natal charts have proven valuable research materialWOW! The example charts apparently ORIGINAL according to accademist
Prof. Mark Riley. Cool!
for historians and academics
i.e.
Historians have used Valens authentic astrological charts
to fine-tune the dating of known historical events
david starling
Well-known member
Clearly not read or studied HELLENISTIC astrologer Vettius Valens
https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
Vettius Valens discarded nothing
Vettius Valens' Anthologiae is the longest extant astrological work from antiquity.
It is unique in several respects
the author was a practicing astrologer
the work includes more than 100 authentic horoscopes of Valens' clients or associates
including his own, which is used as an example many times throughout the work
the work also includes tables and the description of algorithms used by astrologers and mathematicians.
Valens THE ANTHOLOGY natal charts have proven valuable research material
for historians and academics
i.e.
Historians have used Valens authentic astrological charts
to fine-tune the dating of known historical events
So, Valens included ALL ancient Egyptian and Babylonian techniques and imagery in his astrology?
david starling
Well-known member
I think it's been a fun thread, but we're really not getting anywhere. We ended up fending off the passive-aggressive distain Trads have for any developments in astrological thinking since the discovery of elliptical orbits. As fate would have it.
david starling
Well-known member
Let's see if the OP and/or J.A. can give a straight answer to this one question: Do Traditionalistic astrologers adhere to the belief that one's fate is sealed by what the Natal-chart reveals using "Traditional" methods? 
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lostinstars
Well-known member
I'm not against mixing psychology with astrology but what modern astrologers did can't be called mixing it is something like invading astrology destroying the integrity of astrology as a divinatory discipline adding new meanings which never existed.
I have stated my position several times on this thread but modern astrologers seem to deny that is not the case which is if I analyse my behaviour and imbibe the experiene of events things will fall in place like my health improves, finances improve etc., or it even does not matter as some modern astrologers say but I say it matters I'm still a human I have to live my life pay my bills take care of things in my present and future.
I said in few posts before I'm not going to arguge on Astrocartography but now I think I have to make it clear. Astrocartography works because people move to a different place on the planet and as they move the impact of planets on them change due to the relative position, making some stronger and some weaker. Why should modern astrologers even bother with something like Astrocartography if the psychoanalysis they may give to their client is enough to take care of all their problems?
Hope you understand the limitations of psychology in astrology.
lostinstars
Well-known member
Lostinstars, are you comfortable with people you associate with knowing that you "believe in astrology"? A lot of us are careful about who knows, because that causes some to doubt one's rationality.
I have very atheistic friends with PhDs, their arrogance is totally on another level. Only my close friends know about my interests in occult, I refrain from talking anything about it to priests of science as I call such friends.
lostinstars
Well-known member
The article does not say some astrologer told him to marry that particular woman because it is good for him or his business. You took it out of context, if I were to get hold of his natal chart somehow and show you the high possibility of getting imprisoned, what would be your answer?
I said it twice already in the earlier posts you don't have to surrender to your fate but make a choice, but don't be disappointed if things don't turn out the way you wanted.
edit: in a linked article it says so that astrologer asked him to marry this woman. But this does not hold any relevance to our argument because if a traditional astrologer says to me you are likely to become a murderer then I will do my best to avoid it as I know it is not an ethical or humane thing to do. But there could be a fool who may act out.
For example in Vedic astrology there are some aspects which get activated apparently when a native's maternal uncle dies. If an astrologer were to tell a client same thing s/he would wonder when my uncle will die so I can get all the money.
That is why ethics are very important on what you need to tell the client as much as where you should stop fooling the client?
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lostinstars
Well-known member
Let's see if the OP and/or J.A. can give a straight answer to this one question: Do Traditionalistic astrologers adhere to the belief that one's fate is sealed by what the Natal-chart reveals using "Traditional" methods?
I thought I gave straight answers to all your questions
and yes I believe that fate is sealed in the natal chart and when I have the right method to calculate with a fair accuracy on what an individual will turn out to be, I will let everyone know.lostinstars
Well-known member
I completely agree astrology accepts that astronomical bodies affect or influence or cause events on earth and individual lives. You are right about it. Finally one thing we agree on.
I'm wondering if it possible to say anything about a native just with aspects without houses and signs? May be we can do away with signs but houses I think are needed. For world events we do not need anything but aspects.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
I think this is what Unique Astrology does. There was also a poster by the name Krewster who read a natal chart purely on the tight orbs of aspectual patterns, and was a notable user of the non-ptolemaic aspects. Purely "keplarian" astrologer.
Check out "magi astrology", which began publicizing its findings in books spanning between 1995-1999.
david starling
Well-known member
This one skeptic (I forget his name) wrote an article saying that he set out to debunk astrology, but ended up accepting Aspects-only for personality-types and professional abilities. Personally, I rely most heavily on Signs and rulerships in the context of Houses and Aspects.
If you can do without Signs, it helps end the argument between tropical and sidereal.