Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

mahaira

mahaira

Well-known member
Hi,

Over the years I'v been reading/listening/thinking about the idea that we have all chosen to be born. In other words, that our parents are not responsible for us being here. No matter how difficult circumstances, it is our choice. Maybe the word "intention" is a better fit, because, taking out karmic debts or needs, I don't think that we could actually chose among infinite number of possibilities.

I was just wandering, what is your take on that.
Also, if you have any books to suggest on that subject or articles, I would be very grateful!

Thank you!
 
Opal

Opal

Premium Member
mahaira said:
Hi,

Over the years I'v been reading/listening/thinking about the idea that we have all chosen to be born. In other words, that our parents are not responsible for us being here. No matter how difficult circumstances, it is our choice. Maybe the word "intention" is a better fit, because, taking out karmic debts or needs, I don't think that we could actually chose among infinite number of possibilities.

I was just wandering, what is your take on that.
Also, if you have any books to suggest on that subject or articles, I would be very grateful!

Thank you!
Click to expand...

I have read that we pick our parents, sorry I can't remember the source. I kind of like the theory.

It upsets some, for instance, why would one choose to come into an abusive family? or choose to be a babe born of rape.

But, if you believe in the karmic debt theory, past lives, could have put them where they are.

Martin Schulman and his Karmic Astrology series, you would probably enjoy them.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Opal said:
I have read that we pick our parents, sorry I can't remember the source. I kind of like the theory.

It upsets some, for instance, why would one choose to come into an abusive family? or choose to be a babe born of rape.

But, if you believe in the karmic debt theory, past lives, could have put them where they are.

Martin Schulman and his Karmic Astrology series, you would probably enjoy them.
Click to expand...


0845a2f8e35d0e9e26cf5f9d446e3e18.jpg




a81902ef3c4b24eff4fc510c54fe4616.jpg






Karma is aka Action




There are three BASIC types:

PHYSICAL action

VERBAL action

and

MENTAL action.

Every action leaves an imprint


Physical actions may produce tangible residue

whereas


verbal and mental karma create intangible imprints.


Analyze the trail of any karma
and one may be surprised

how it may wane
but

never gets destroyed completely.
It is the residue of each karma that conditions one


clowns-and-karma.jpg
 
Opal

Opal

Premium Member
petosiris said:
How can one believe such absurdities without proof?
Click to expand...

Your answer, or question, should be applied to your own chosen belief system. Blind faith for you, is fine, based on stories that you choose to believe, for your motivations.

Absurdities, come in many belief systems, yours is included.
 
P

petosiris

Banned
JUPITERASC said:
Absurd to claim much proof has not been destroyed :smile:
.
Click to expand...

''We may subvert their doctrine as to transmigration from body to body by this fact, that souls remember nothing whatever of the events which took place in their previous states of existence... With reference to these objections, Plato, that ancient Athenian, who also was the first to introduce this opinion, when he could not set them aside, invented a cup of oblivion, imagining that in this way he would escape this sort of difficulty. He attempted no kind of proof, but simply replied dogmatically, that when souls enter into this life, they are caused to drink of oblivion by that demon who watches their entrance, before they effect an entrance into the bodies. It escaped him, that he fell into another greater perplexity. For if the cup of oblivion, after it has been drunk, can obliterate the memory of all the deeds that have been done, how, O Plato, do you obtain the knowledge of this fact (since your soul is now in the body), that, before it entered into the body, it was made to drink by the demon a drug which caused oblivion? For if you have a remembrance of the demon, and the cup, and the entrance, you ought also to be acquainted with other things; but if, on the other hand, you are ignorant of them, then there is no truth in the story of the demon, nor in the cup of oblivion prepared with art.'' - Irenaeus 2.33 https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iii.xxxiv.html

Therefore it is impossible to claim both that there is evidence of reincarnation, and that evidence is being obliterated. :smile:

Opal said:
Absurdities, come in many belief systems, yours is included.
Click to expand...

Not what the OP is about, but yes, indeed, there may be absurdities in my belief system, so please examine them with the same measure. I believe in the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, because it has more than five hundred eyewitnesses, some of who touched his body or talked with him eating and drinking, and because his guarded tomb was found empty. That is why I believe that people can be raised from the dead. Feel free to reject this claim if you do not find it convincing, but then you have to reject tons of other historical claims with the same measure, my fellow Libra.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
petosiris said:

How can one believe such absurdities without proof?
Click to expand...

Absurd to claim much proof has not been destroyed :smile:
to assert that evidence has not been destroyed
is naive

multiple examples:
Hillary Clinton destroyed 30,000 emails
literally staff smashed the computer equipment with hammers
that's on record




2s3fy7.jpg







hillary-clinton-deleted-33-000-emails-after-a-federal-subpeona-staff-5770051.png




another example
on our forum
entire posts are frequently deleted by moderators :smile:

to the extent that
threads lack coherence
because of missing content






.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
For anyone willing to keep an **open mind** on reincarnation, I recommend these books:

Jim Tucker, M. D., Life Before Life and Return to Life.

He's a professor at the University of Virginia medical school, and a specialist in child psychiatry.

Tucker interviewed young children who seemed to recall past lives. Then his team of researchers sleuthed recent records to see if such a person actually existed. He found some striking confirmations, but he cautions (as a good scientist) that one cannot extrapolate too far from his results.

This one is amazing: https://www.npr.org/2014/01/05/259886077/searching-for-science-behind-reincarnation

Neither Jane Roberts/Seth or Tucker supported the Hindu idea of reincarnation with its belief in divine reward and punishment.

Roberts/Seth said that disincarnate souls choose the life most likely to lead to their spiritual growth. For example, a cruel person in a past life might choose to reincarnate as a victim, in order to experience and thus understand the impacts of cruelty and to evolve away from destructive behavior.

I don't think anything in the Bible actually says that souls incarnate and die only once. We owe that to Catholic doctrine.
 
IleneK

IleneK

Premium Member
petosiris said:
How can one believe such absurdities without proof?
Click to expand...
The totality of being is immense. Perhaps without bounds?
It seems to me a shame to limit oneself, to deny oneself consideration of all except that very small subset of being which can be proven.

This is not to denigrate in anyway the scientific method and that domain which can be proven. It is only to respectfully acknowledge its fairly well acknowledged limitation.
 
P

petosiris

Banned
waybread said:
I don't think anything in the Bible actually says that souls incarnate and die only once. We owe that to Catholic doctrine.
Click to expand...

The New Testament says that it is appointed to die once (Hebr. 9:27) after which the soul goes to Sheol, either in Abraham's bosom or in place of torments (Luke 16:19-31). This place is temporary until the resurrection of the body spoken by the prophets Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel, first of the holy ones, and second of the wicked (and probably the righteous among the nations that survived the wrath, but died afterward) at the end of the thousand years. But how can all dead be raised if different bodies housed the same soul, in what body will the person be raised?

The only place that the Bible speaks of incarnation, which is a Latin translation for ''became flesh'', is John 1:14, and that clearly refers to the Word, Angel and first-begotten Son of God, who didn't have a human soul (Hebr. 10:5). Before he became flesh, he had the form (Phil. 2) or body of a God, since we are told (Gen. 18, John 8:56) that he appeared to Abraham and ate with him meat and milk together (which is said to be non-kosher according to your teachers). :smile:

waybread said:
Tucker interviewed young children who seemed to recall past lives. Then his team of researchers sleuthed recent records to see if such a person actually existed. He found some striking confirmations, but he cautions (as a good scientist) that one cannot extrapolate too far from his results.
Click to expand...

Most people do not ''remember'' their past lives. Waybread, there is a way someone could have told this child all these incredible matters. All religions have miracles from apparitions in front of thousands of people to fire falling down from the sky every year, that doesn't make their underlying claims true. Something may appear true on the outside, but actually be false and adversarial on the inside. How can we discern between miracles, but from their underlying motives and results? True signs and wonders always glorify the Creator - ''If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing'' (and are in accordance with the revelation given on Mount Sinai to 600000 men besides women and children).
 
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Opal

Opal

Premium Member
JUPITERASC said:
0845a2f8e35d0e9e26cf5f9d446e3e18.jpg




a81902ef3c4b24eff4fc510c54fe4616.jpg






Karma is aka Action




There are three BASIC types:

PHYSICAL action

VERBAL action

and

MENTAL action.

Every action leaves an imprint


Physical actions may produce tangible residue

whereas


verbal and mental karma create intangible imprints.


Analyze the trail of any karma
and one may be surprised

how it may wane
but

never gets destroyed completely.
It is the residue of each karma that conditions one


clowns-and-karma.jpg
Click to expand...

Ha, yes JA, we choose whether to enter the game, but can not control other’s destinies.
 
Opal

Opal

Premium Member
waybread said:
For anyone willing to keep an **open mind** on reincarnation, I recommend these books:

Jim Tucker, M. D., Life Before Life and Return to Life.

He's a professor at the University of Virginia medical school, and a specialist in child psychiatry.

Tucker interviewed young children who seemed to recall past lives. Then his team of researchers sleuthed recent records to see if such a person actually existed. He found some striking confirmations, but he cautions (as a good scientist) that one cannot extrapolate too far from his results.

This one is amazing: https://www.npr.org/2014/01/05/259886077/searching-for-science-behind-reincarnation

Neither Jane Roberts/Seth or Tucker supported the Hindu idea of reincarnation with its belief in divine reward and punishment.

Roberts/Seth said that disincarnate souls choose the life most likely to lead to their spiritual growth. For example, a cruel person in a past life might choose to reincarnate as a victim, in order to experience and thus understand the impacts of cruelty and to evolve away from destructive behavior.

I don't think anything in the Bible actually says that souls incarnate and die only once. We owe that to Catholic doctrine.
Click to expand...

Thanks Waybread.
 
Opal

Opal

Premium Member
IleneK said:
The totality of being is immense. Perhaps without bounds?
It seems to me a shame to limit oneself, to deny oneself consideration of all except that very small subset of being which can be proven.

This is not to denigrate in anyway the scientific method and that domain which can be proven. It is only to respectfully acknowledge its fairly well acknowledged limitation.
Click to expand...

Nicely stated Ilene K.
 
Opal

Opal

Premium Member
petosiris said:
''We may subvert their doctrine as to transmigration from body to body by this fact, that souls remember nothing whatever of the events which took place in their previous states of existence... With reference to these objections, Plato, that ancient Athenian, who also was the first to introduce this opinion, when he could not set them aside, invented a cup of oblivion, imagining that in this way he would escape this sort of difficulty. He attempted no kind of proof, but simply replied dogmatically, that when souls enter into this life, they are caused to drink of oblivion by that demon who watches their entrance, before they effect an entrance into the bodies. It escaped him, that he fell into another greater perplexity. For if the cup of oblivion, after it has been drunk, can obliterate the memory of all the deeds that have been done, how, O Plato, do you obtain the knowledge of this fact (since your soul is now in the body), that, before it entered into the body, it was made to drink by the demon a drug which caused oblivion? For if you have a remembrance of the demon, and the cup, and the entrance, you ought also to be acquainted with other things; but if, on the other hand, you are ignorant of them, then there is no truth in the story of the demon, nor in the cup of oblivion prepared with art.'' - Irenaeus 2.33 https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iii.xxxiv.html

Therefore it is impossible to claim both that there is evidence of reincarnation, and that evidence is being obliterated. :smile:



Not what the OP is about, but yes, indeed, there may be absurdities in my belief system, so please examine them with the same measure. I believe in the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, because it has more than five hundred eyewitnesses, some of who touched his body or talked with him eating and drinking, and because his guarded tomb was found empty. That is why I believe that people can be raised from the dead. Feel free to reject this claim if you do not find it convincing, but then you have to reject tons of other historical claims with the same measure, my fellow Libra.
Click to expand...

You are right, my response to your post has nothing to do with the OP’s original post, because, your post had nothing to do with the original post.
 
P

petosiris

Banned
Opal said:
You are right, my response to your post has nothing to do with the OP’s original post, because, your post had nothing to do with the original post.
Click to expand...

The OP is wandering and asking for a take on reincarnation and the idea that human descendants choose their human ancestors. The OP doesn't forbid a person from questioning that idea and possibility which defies normal language.
 
Opal

Opal

Premium Member
petosiris said:
The OP is wandering and asking for a take on reincarnation and the idea that human descendants choose their human ancestors. The OP doesn't forbid a person from questioning that idea and possibility which defies normal language.
Click to expand...


okay. I think. :whistling:
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Petosirus, I can see that you didn't follow up on Dr. Tucker's research. The methodology was extremely painstaking, precisely to minimize the chance of bias or alternative explanations.

So long as you insist on perpetrating falsehoods about "my teachers" I have nothing more to say to you on this thread. I explained this to you in a previous thread, in detail.
 
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