Hellenistic delineations

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

Just so I can be clear (RU, I find visual aids to be helpful also. I often will draw my own) whether or not the aspect is dexter or sinister will be determined by the faster planet? So, if the faster planet is to the left, the aspect is sinister, and if the faster planet is to the right it will be dexter?

Yes. There is an added twist that whatever planet that is in the dexter position of an aspect dominates the aspect regardless of speed.

Just as a side note, isn't it funny (in a not so funny way) that "sinister" correlates with the left? I wonder if the "left" is considered "bad" because of astrology, or if the "sinister" or "left" = the devil came before...

Sinister aspects aren't bad. They're just less obvious.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

I drew a picture. The Sun is running away from Saturn, or, more correctly, Saturn is running away from the Sun due to rotation of the Earth, so I don't quite understand. I thought it had to do with "upper" and "lower" aspects.

I do think this is a sinister aspect, since the slower planet is in the dexter position, but I could be wrong on that too.
 

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Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

Yes, the Sun would be applying/separating a sinister Square to Saturn in that picture, but Saturn dominates it by being in the Dexter position.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

I know that, but that'd make each planet in a dexter aspect to the one next to it, so there would be no single dominant planet in the (non-Hellenistically-used) pattern.
 
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Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

What Frank means is that the overall pattern of a Grand Cross doesn't mean anything. It's the individual aspects and how they effect the planets involved that matter.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

Do dexter and sinister apply to oppositions and conjunctions? Oppositions and conjunctions are seldom exact to the second, so I think they do. I think that would mean Mars 5* Virgo departing Saturn 3* Pisces -> Saturn dexter, right?
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

Just a personal note (for what its worth): although the concepts of dexter and sinister were very important considerations within the Greco/Roman astrological model, I myself do not take account of these considerations in chart delineation-here I join with later Traditionalist, Modernist and also Vedic astrology in this matter.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

Yes, but when are you ever exactly on top of it?

In most Hellenistic astrology, so far as I know, the signs aspect one another. It doesn't go by the planets' degrees. So a planet anywhere in Leo would oppose a planet anywhere in Aquarius.
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

Rebel Uranian said:
Yes, but when are you ever exactly on top of it?

The exactitude isn't the issue with this particular example. Mostly it's due to the nature of the conjunction. Just know that conjunctions are only applying and separating, and they don't take dexter and sinister positions into account.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

A planet can be dexter or sinister to another planet without even being in aspect if I understand correctly, but it won't have any real effect.
 

byjove

Account Closed
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

Well the dexter and sinister that I learned is exactly as JupiterAsc explained, and I learned with an image near identical to the one that this member posted. There have been a number of posts since which referenced to other features, which, insofar as my limited knowledge on it, have no connection to dexter and sinister. :w00t: I strongly advice going back to JA's post on this (a page back or more recent) explains it well.

Q. Dexter and sinister conjunctions/oppositions don't exist.
Q. I learned it from a modern astrologer...a modern astrologer using dexter and sinister! Eclectic indeed! And aspect degrees are important in how I was taught to use it, not by signs.
Q. About effects, it indicates strength of an aspect and some of the effects...I was taught that a sinister trine for example can be less stable in it's production of positive effects, less reliable, sometimes as a matter of luck or chance and not inate ability.

It's up to the individual as always which features 'make sense' to them. I admit the anti-leftist connotations to this feature raise questions for me, it may have been acceptable in the past to tie anything left with the devil or evil (such as in Catholicism) but very few of us would accept that today.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

Rebel Uranian, Deborah Houlding of Skyscript has this to say:

QUOTE
Lilly says "Observe the dexter aspect is more forcible than the Sinister" (CA.,p.109). Astrological philosophy recognises a planet's daily movement through the sky, from east to west, as a more fundamental movement than its progress through the zodiac: dexter literally means 'of the right' and sinister 'of the left'.

As a sign rises, its gaze is said to be directed towards the signs that rose before it, so that Aries looks forward towards Aquarius by sextile, Capricorn by square and Sagittarius by trine. A dexter aspect, because it follows the diurnal motion and is therefore more direct, is stronger than a sinister one and more likely to produce favourable results. A sinister aspect, because it is issued against the natural movement of heaven and has to 'look backwards', is weaker and somewhat debilitated. In ancient symbolism the direction right was often considered to be a positive influence, whilst the direction left was associated with enemies and weakness.
ENDQUOTE


http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/dexter.html

Then by scrolling down this link http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects.html#sd one finds even more in depth detailed explanations and comments :smile:
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

Do you consider whether an aspect is dexter or sinister, JUPITERASC?
As Deborah Houlding explains on the link I just posted, the dominating planet is made much use of by Valens and other Hellenistic astrologers, therefore I also give serious consideration to the matter

I enjoy learning as much as I can find on Hellenistic astrology - I began reading the subject approximately six years ago.
In fact, I currently have been viewing a video I have that was recorded by Robert Schmidt in which he discusses what he considers are historical errors that occurred as a consequence of mistranslation of numerous ancient astrological texts. :smile:
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
Re: Hellenistic deliniations

Dexter and sinister has more cultural significance. All (trad planet only) aspects with Saturn in the dexter position are sinister aspects. Sinister aspects are also more "ominous" because they're indirect and often considered weaker and all that.
 
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