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  #1  
Unread 06-15-2018, 06:38 PM
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How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

astro_2gw_01_sara_bushra.37907.10582 (1).jpg

Am I ******* in love? My fifth house dispositor, saturn is in my 6th house in pisces. My 7th house final dispositor in the 6th house saturn once again. 7th house ruler-mars which is in fourth house which is in capriorn which again goes back to the saturn in 6th house pisces. My 8th house which is ruled by the moon, in taurus, venus goes into fifth house(8th house ruler in fifth), venus in aquarius-saturn/uranus-saturn is in the 6th house pisces-uranus is in 4th house in capricorn-making it's way back to the 6th house pisces.

I read about vedic interpretations about fifth house ruler in 6th house and it says that I will associate myself with low members of the opposite sex and therefore I will lose everything. I've almost seen this unfolding.

However, I have jupiter in good dignity(in 3rd house, sagitarrius), mars is exalted but in a bad house. Should I just get married and avoid passionate romances and find someone nice even though they don't evoke passionate feelings ?

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Unread 06-15-2018, 06:52 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

Except I would stop at Mars in Capricorn for the 7th house disposter. Exalted planets are at max strength in that sign, meaning the chain stops there.
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  #3  
Unread 06-15-2018, 07:05 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

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Except I would stop at Mars in Capricorn for the 7th house disposter. Exalted planets are at max strength in that sign, meaning the chain stops there.
Ohh okay, thanks!
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Unread 06-15-2018, 09:42 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

Not Mars, no, Exalted planets are strong sure and angularity puts Mars in a strong position, but they aren't at home. Saturn is ruled by Jupiter and he rules Saturn as it (Jupiter) sits in Domicile. He's also late in degree and out of sect, so his benefits are shaky at worst, great at best, seeing how he's sitting happily in his sign.

Mars is exalt and playing for your team, but it squares ascendant by sign and reception to asc isn't great. Might cause a few hiccups in the love department, but you're young and have a long time (presumably) to find love. So no, wouldn't say you're doomed in love or anything.

Last edited by Blaze; 06-15-2018 at 09:47 PM. Reason: Phone typing
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Unread 06-15-2018, 09:51 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

"He's also late in degree and out of sect, so his benefits are shaky at worst, great at best, seeing how he's sitting happily in his sign."

Blazey, are you on about jupiter here ? This sect things pishing me off, i think i get it and then get thrown another curve ball. If your on about jupiter i would have said jupiter was in sect here ....why am i not getting this.
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Unread 06-15-2018, 09:59 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
"He's also late in degree and out of sect, so his benefits are shaky at worst, great at best, seeing how he's sitting happily in his sign."

Blazey, are you on about jupiter here ? This sect things pishing me off, i think i get it and then get thrown another curve ball. If your on about jupiter i would have said jupiter was in sect here ....why am i not getting this.
Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are not of the sect in favor in a night chart
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Unread 06-15-2018, 10:03 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are not of the sect in favor in a night chart
Have i been doing sect all wrong...

Its a night chart = yes.

But i thought jupiter/saturn prefered to be in the same horizon as the sun in a night chart, which is why as jupiter is below the horizon with the sun, i would have said jupiter was in sect.
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Unread 06-15-2018, 10:13 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post


Have i been doing sect all wrong...

Its a night chart = yes.

To be in Sect, the Sun must be above the horizon
The Sun can only be above the horizon in a Day/diurnal Chart

The Moon in a Night Chart may be in Sect either above or below the horizon

- that's because the Sun determines Diurnal/Nocturnal

(a) The Sun is always in Sect in a Day Chart

(b) The Moon is always in Sect in a Night Chart


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post

But i thought jupiter/saturn prefered to be in the same horizon as the sun in a night chart
which is why as jupiter is below the horizon with the sun
i would have said jupiter was in sect.


ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATIONS
1.) In a diurnal chart you'd want the diurnal planets in the upper hemisphere with the Sun (hayz)
as that would be more natural for those planets.

The diurnal planets are Sun, Jupiter and Saturn.

If any diurnal planets in a diurnal chart are in the lower hemisphere/below the Ascendant/Descendant axis
then although they are in sect
nevertheless they are considered slightly out of sect
and more nocturnal in nature (halb)

If the nocturnal planets in a diurnal chart are below the horizon
although they are out of sect they are still in hayz
and so more natural
- but nocturnal planets that are above the horizon in a diurnal chart
are situated contrary to their nature (halb).

2.) In a nocturnal chart you'd want the nocturnal planets in the upper hemisphere
away from the Sun (hayz).

Any nocturnal planets in the lower hemisphere in a nocturnal chart are still in sect
but are considered slightly out of sect and more diurnal in nature (halb).

If the diurnal planets in a nocturnal chart
are below the horizon
they are also hayz
so a little more natural

but if they are above the horizon
they are situated contrary to their nature nature (halb)

keep in mind

(a) the Sun alone determines Day and Night.


(b) the Sun can only be above the horizon in a Day Chart

(c) the Moon is always out of Sect when the Sun is above the horizon (Diurnal/Day Chart)

(d) the Moon is always in Sect when the Sun is below the horizon (Nocturnal/Night Chart)

(e) therefore if the Sun is below the horizon it is a Nocturnal/Night Chart and

(f) therefore in a Nocturnal/Night Chart the Moon is in Sect whether above or below the Horizon

diurnal = day
nocturnal = night


(a) when above the horizon the Sun is in the upper hemisphere = Day/diurnal

(b) when below the horizon the Sun is in the lower hemisphere = Night/nocturnal

therefore

(c) the Moon is in Sect in a Night Chart irrespective of hemisphere and/or horizon
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  #9  
Unread 06-15-2018, 10:19 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are in-sect when the Sun is above the ascendant/desc line. When above the ascendant/desc line, the Suns light lords over the chart, "warming" it up and the cold planet Saturn can't act too harshly, while the hot planet Jupiter is free to act greatly.

Mars, Venus and Moon are in-sect when the sun is below the ascendant/desc line, as the chart itself is "cooled." This cooling effect gives Saturn free reign to be as cold as it wants, while Jupiter, being cooled off, has a hard time giving benefits.

That's what I remember anyway. In love-thinking's chart, Sun is underneath the line, so good old Jupiter is out of sect.
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  #10  
Unread 06-15-2018, 10:20 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

Yea, what JA wrote up there^
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Unread 06-15-2018, 10:32 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

Thanks JA and Blaze, i need to re-read these a few times to digest. Ive been reading them the opposite way around i think, hence the confusion.


Its also not helped me, as i came across a thread from BobZemco once too on sect planets, and i wrote in my book what he wrote, this is an example, as i can't find the thread.

Maybe jup can find it

Quoted from Bob ~
"When you look at sect, your looking at the planets in relation to the sun not to the horizon.

If the sun is in the 10th house thats a day chart, but if saturn and jupiter are in the 11th/12th/1st, then they are not diurnal because they are rising behind the sun, so they are nocturnal and not in their proper place.
When sun is in 10th you want to see jupiter and saturn in 9th,8th,7th,6th etc.

If venus and mars are in the 11th and 12th in a day chart that's good because that means they are rising behind the sun and nocturnal."

So what Bobs saying is also different, as hes not going on Horizon.
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Unread 06-15-2018, 10:39 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Thanks JA and Blaze, i need to re-read these a few times to digest. Ive been reading them the opposite way around i think, hence the confusion.


Its also not helped me, as i came across a thread from BobZemco once too on sect planets, and i wrote in my book what he wrote, this is an example, as i can't find the thread.

Maybe jup can find it

Quoted from Bob ~
"When you look at sect, your looking at the planets in relation to the sun not to the horizon.

If the sun is in the 10th house thats a day chart, but if saturn and jupiter are in the 11th/12th/1st, then they are not diurnal because they are rising behind the sun, so they are nocturnal and not in their proper place.
When sun is in 10th you want to see jupiter and saturn in 9th,8th,7th,6th etc.

If venus and mars are in the 11th and 12th in a day chart that's good because that means they are rising behind the sun and nocturnal."

So what Bobs saying is also different, as hes not going on Horizon.
dr. farr detailed and experienced clarification agrees with your notes from BobZemco comment
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
Regarding my understanding of the issue of sect based on my insights into the old literature PLUS Hand's take on it:

-in the question of sect there is sect and period

-first, the period: its either Day (Sun above the horizon) or Night (Sun below the horizon)
-in a diurnal chart the Sun and the diurnal planets are in their period, ie, they are the "party in power"
-in a night chart, the Moon and the nocturnal planets are in their period, ie they are the "party in power"
-now, the question is, are the members of the party in power where they are supposed to be, ie, are they in the appropriate SECTION (Day or Night SECTION) of their power?
-if they ARE then they are in their period (in their power) AND in sect
-if they are NOT, then while their period is in power they are NOT where they should be to wield that power, ie, they are not in sect.


Example:
+ a nocturnal chart
+therefore Moon, Venus and Mars have the power because it is the PERIOD of their power (ie, it is night above the earth)
+now, Moon is below the horizon in the day part of the chart; Venus and Mars are both above the horizon in the night part of the chart (the period of the chart)
+now lets estimate the strength of the 3 nocturnal planets
Moon is in its period (night chart) = +1
Moon is NOT in its proper section (sect) because it is in the day part of the chart, under the earth = -1
Net sect power of Moon = 0

Venus and Mars are both in their period (night chart) = Venus+1, Mars+1
Venus and Mars are also in their proper section(sect) because they are in the night part of the chart (above the earth in a night chart) = Venus+1, Mars+1
So the net sect power of Venus is +2 and of Mars is +2

What about the diurnal planets in the above example? Let's say that Jupiter is above the earth, and the Sun and Saturn are below the earth:
Sun is NOT in its period because it is a night chart therefore Sun = 0
Sun is in its proper section (the day section) of the chart, under the earth = +1
Therefore the sect (related) strength of the Sun = +1

Saturn is not in its period because it is a night chart therefore Saturn = 0
Saturn is in its proper sect (the day section) of the chart, being under the earth = +1
Therefore the sect (related) strength of Saturn = +1

Jupiter is not in its period because it is a night chart, therefore Jupiter = 0
Jupiter is NOT in its proper sect because it is posited in the night section of the chart above the earth, therefore this = -1
The sect (related) strength of Jupiter, then, would be -1

In our hypothetical example, the final (net) sect/strength determinations for the planets in this nocturnal chart would then be:
Moon = 0
Venus = +2
Mars = +2
Sun = +1
Saturn = +1
Jupiter = -1
The sect/strongest planets would be the nocturnals Venus and Mars; the weakest sect planet would be Jupiter.

Now the above is how I understand the sect literature I have read; and this literature is from the older times (Paulus, and the early Islamic-era transitionalists who were still much influenced by the Hellenists, ie, Al-Kindi, Sahl, Abu Mashar) I might have totally misunderstood everything I read, and might be quite incorrect; but I don't think so, I think I have understood the material I have read in this regard.
But I won't argue the point! Especially so because, unlike the Hellenists and neo-Hellenists, I do not give enormous importance in delineation to the sect issue: I regard it merely as one of the determinants of relative planetary strength (like the Vedics do), and, although important, not moreso than the totality of testimonies in determining relative planetary strength.
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Unread 06-15-2018, 11:08 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

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[B][COLOR=Navy]To be in Sect, the Sun must be above the horizon
The Sun can only be above the horizon in a Day/diurnal Chart...
Basically, there is complete discord among the later authors on the issue. The Hellenistic and early Arabs strongly viewed sect as the most important factor, as can be clearly seen from reading bit of Dorotheus, Valens, Ptolemy or Abu Ali.

First and by far the most important (but becomes equal with the others later) is the diurnal and nocturnal distinction - Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are diurnal, Moon, Venus and Mars are nocturnal, Mercury is both.

Another consideration, that I would judge next in importance is the horizon condition. This comes up more rarely in Hellenistic and Abu Ali, but it is there - diurnal above horizon by day are better, and nocturnal above horizon by night are better, and the reverse is true for the opposite hours.

There are even more considerations in Hephaistio, Manilius and Arabic authors. For example there is consideration by sign. According to some the nocturnal stars rejoice with feminine signs, while the diurnal stars rejoice with masculine signs. According to Hephaistio and other authors, instead the ''lunar hemisphere'' - Aquarius to Cancer is nocturnal, while Leo to Capricorn is the ''solar hemisphere'' where the diurnal stars rejoice.

There are even other schematizations of this ''sign type'' among some authors - for example stars rejoicing with signs of their own sect ruler.

If you try to use too many dignities, it becomes very confused and disjointed. At the end of the day, you might need 10 minutes (5 types of sect, 10 types of essential dignity, aspects, antiscia and so forth) to estimate whether the star is well placed until you can say something about the nativity. Anyone who has tried to do a chart at the moment knows what I am talking about.

Last edited by petosiris; 06-15-2018 at 11:14 PM.
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Unread 06-15-2018, 11:18 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

Ive also been referring to this too from chris brennan..i love this guy

http://www.hellenisticastrology.com/...etary-joys.pdf
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Unread 06-15-2018, 11:47 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Ive also been referring to this too from chris brennan..i love this guy

http://www.hellenisticastrology.com/...etary-joys.pdf
Aries Trine - Sun has domicile and exaltation, Jupiter has domicile and Saturn is of the sect
Taurus Trine - Venus has domicile, Moon has exaltation and Mars has exaltation, Mercury is not considered because the nocturnal planets have domicile or exaltation there
Gemini Trine - Saturn has domicile and exaltation, Mercury is considered because the Sun and Jupiter do not have domicile or exaltation there, and Jupiter is chosen instead of the Sun, because the Sun is in depression in Libra
Cancer Trine - Venus has exaltation, Mars has domicile, Moon has domicile - Venus is first because the other stars are depressed in the same trigon, but the star of Mars has greater share in this trigon. Both day and night births have three malefics ruling at all times.

It is more likely that the joys come after sect and rulerships, so I disagree with the chronology that Chris Brennan implies. Domiciles and Exaltations provide sufficient explanation for all four winds, and are much more likely to be the reason. Valens and Ptolemy do not at all mention the joys for their rationales, and they are more likely to know as contemporaries than we conjecturing on unavailable sources.
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Unread 06-18-2018, 06:29 PM
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Re: How important is the final dispositor(Am I doomed in love)

Jupiter is this supposed to say nocturnal ?

Quoted from # 8 "If any diurnal planets in a diurnal chart are in the lower hemisphere/below the Ascendant/Descendant axis
then although they are in sect
nevertheless they are considered slightly out of sect
and more nocturnal in nature (halb)"
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