Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
Well I wouldn’t ego stroke you but my response to your response wasn’t argumentative. It’s like you replied just so you could tell me you didn’t want to talk to me. Ouch?
Random Thoughts, strictly Text
- Thread starter david starling
- Start date
Opal
Premium Member
It was not my intent. I am Pluto ruled. I am too aware of my surroundings to even be able to meditate. I like his Pluto series, but, I don’t agree with all he writes. He gets into a style of writing that I have a difficult time reading. I like a lot of his points but not always how he puts it out to others. I can’t listen to a lot of YouTube zen stuff either, the voices they use irritate me, not making me feel very zen at all.
Anyway, I do not perceive you to be stupid. I see you as a sensitive person, that is capable of achieving things that I cannot.
Have a good day Ukpoohbear, I am sorry for making you feel that way.
Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
Oh you didn’t make me feel stupid, I just wanted to hear your own thoughts on it. You being Pluto ruled makes sense because perhaps you are more guarded than I am but you’ve since explained a bit more, although I’m still curious to hear why you think I’m capable of achieving things you are not. If you can’t meditate because you’re too aware of your surroundings then that means you’re possibly super aware of things which are hidden, which is why you don’t like it, especially being Plutonian.
The plot thickens, I’m aware now it’s something you don’t want to discuss. But you didn’t make me feel stupid, I just wanted to know what your own thoughts were, not praising somebody else’s, but now I know it was a diversion tactic, I wanna know more, but I won’t push it.
It was a diversion tactic, not a simple case of not having your own thoughts and stroking another’s ego, I understand now. Very interesting.
The plot thickens, I’m aware now it’s something you don’t want to discuss. But you didn’t make me feel stupid, I just wanted to know what your own thoughts were, not praising somebody else’s, but now I know it was a diversion tactic, I wanna know more, but I won’t push it.
It was a diversion tactic, not a simple case of not having your own thoughts and stroking another’s ego, I understand now. Very interesting.
Last edited:
Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
Opal
Premium Member
It is the season UK, my Mother is coming in tomorrow. I will answer your query, when I can, but now I am cleaning
something I really don't enjoy.Happy Holidays!
Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
So touchy! It’s called disagreeing on certain points. You have a sting in your tail and don’t mind using it against people 10 years+ younger than you...Merry Xmas lol
Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
Plus, the only reason I commented anything to you was because you commented about the link I posted, to just then use it to say you didn’t want to talk to me, it came across like a deliberate set-up tbh. But anyway, it’s done now. I just want to discuss stuff to do with the link, not argue or have drama. So don’t say anything to me unless it’s about that the link, but don’t even do that because you just used it to say you didn’t wanna talk to me.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/twelve-easy-lessons-for-beginners-8-delineation-part-1-signs/
Due to the popularity of discussions surrounding the structure of astrology, what it is and why it works, I figure that I would post this link for the perusal of the people here.
The author takes a comprehensive approach to the various views on astrology and the pros and cons of each. His view is heavily symbolic, grounded in a technical understanding of semiotics and linguistic principles. The advantage of his view is that it makes fewer metaphysical assumptions, with no need to borrow from spiritual and philosophical traditions in order to explain the operations of astrology. It also allows for falsification as delineation should conform to observation, while other views of astrology are grounded more on phenomena that cannot be disproved and proved. Improvement on astrological method can then occur since one can readily grasp where technique, theory or approach falls short.
I did remember at one point that waybread admitted to a more linguistically based understanding of astrology, but since she didn't get flesh out the details of her views I am not sure if they would adhere to the ideas found in the link.
It's a rich article, and I am very much simplifying what was stated so you can give a read if interested.
Due to the popularity of discussions surrounding the structure of astrology, what it is and why it works, I figure that I would post this link for the perusal of the people here.
The author takes a comprehensive approach to the various views on astrology and the pros and cons of each. His view is heavily symbolic, grounded in a technical understanding of semiotics and linguistic principles. The advantage of his view is that it makes fewer metaphysical assumptions, with no need to borrow from spiritual and philosophical traditions in order to explain the operations of astrology. It also allows for falsification as delineation should conform to observation, while other views of astrology are grounded more on phenomena that cannot be disproved and proved. Improvement on astrological method can then occur since one can readily grasp where technique, theory or approach falls short.
I did remember at one point that waybread admitted to a more linguistically based understanding of astrology, but since she didn't get flesh out the details of her views I am not sure if they would adhere to the ideas found in the link.
It's a rich article, and I am very much simplifying what was stated so you can give a read if interested.
Ptolemy did not originate the ''physicalist'' method, Valens talks more often of it, he just considers other things as physical. Riley translates ''physical'' as ''scientific'' or ''natural'', and the author does use it to separate it from any symbolic, divinatory and magical approach to astrology.
It is some kind of popular myth among astrologers that Ptolemy was a physicalist in a world of divination. ''The science of astrology was developed in, most probably, the late 2nd or early 1st century B.C., as a mean to predict, from horoscopic themata draw up for the moment of an individual's birth (or conception), the fate of that native. This form of astrology, called genethlialogy, is rooted in Aristotelean physics and Hellenistic astronomy, but also borrowed much from Mesopotamia and some elements from Egypt as well as developing many theories of its own... All of these types of astrology depend on the notion that the planets, in their eternal rotations about the earth, transmit motion (change) to the four elements and to the assemblages of elements, animate or inanimate, in the sublunar world. This theory is completely different from that of celestial omens, in which the gods, whose physical manifestations are the constellations and planets send messages concerning their intentions regarding kings and countries by means of celestial phenomena.'' - Pingree, D. E. (1997). From astral omens to astrology: from Babylon to Bīkāner
Having studied the ancient astrologers and philosophers (like Pliny) in their languages, how meticulous they are in outlining and defending PHYSICAL theories and methods, Pingree correctly concludes that astrology was developed with physics in mind.
It is some kind of popular myth among astrologers that Ptolemy was a physicalist in a world of divination. ''The science of astrology was developed in, most probably, the late 2nd or early 1st century B.C., as a mean to predict, from horoscopic themata draw up for the moment of an individual's birth (or conception), the fate of that native. This form of astrology, called genethlialogy, is rooted in Aristotelean physics and Hellenistic astronomy, but also borrowed much from Mesopotamia and some elements from Egypt as well as developing many theories of its own... All of these types of astrology depend on the notion that the planets, in their eternal rotations about the earth, transmit motion (change) to the four elements and to the assemblages of elements, animate or inanimate, in the sublunar world. This theory is completely different from that of celestial omens, in which the gods, whose physical manifestations are the constellations and planets send messages concerning their intentions regarding kings and countries by means of celestial phenomena.'' - Pingree, D. E. (1997). From astral omens to astrology: from Babylon to Bīkāner
Having studied the ancient astrologers and philosophers (like Pliny) in their languages, how meticulous they are in outlining and defending PHYSICAL theories and methods, Pingree correctly concludes that astrology was developed with physics in mind.
Last edited:
As for leaving physics to physicists, consider the following:
Any non-occult explanation of astrology has to involve either relationship of the air with the newborn, which seems true and plausible to reason and most traditional methods in astrology, or cold reading which is 7, and is not true astrology at all.
''Who would not consider this knowledge to be superior to any other and to be blessed, since by means of it one can know the sun’s ordered paths which foretell the changing seasons when it enters the tropics in the advances and retardations of its motion; one can know the risings and settings, the days and nights, the seasons’ cold or heat, and the weather? It is also possible to know the varying paths of the moon, its inclinations and departures, its waxing and waning, its heights and its depths, the direction of its winds, its contacts and separations, its eclipses, its near eclipses, and all the rest. From all this it seems possible to understand everything on earth, in the seas, in heaven, as well as the beginning and end of all events. Likewise for the five other stars, with their motions, their uneven paths, and their varied phases. Although they are called “variable” and “wanderers” <planetai>, they have a fixed nature and return to the same places in regular cycles and periods.'' - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
You are right Valens, this is superior to the idiotic explanations of astrology we have nowadays.
Any non-occult explanation of astrology has to involve either relationship of the air with the newborn, which seems true and plausible to reason and most traditional methods in astrology, or cold reading which is 7, and is not true astrology at all.
''Who would not consider this knowledge to be superior to any other and to be blessed, since by means of it one can know the sun’s ordered paths which foretell the changing seasons when it enters the tropics in the advances and retardations of its motion; one can know the risings and settings, the days and nights, the seasons’ cold or heat, and the weather? It is also possible to know the varying paths of the moon, its inclinations and departures, its waxing and waning, its heights and its depths, the direction of its winds, its contacts and separations, its eclipses, its near eclipses, and all the rest. From all this it seems possible to understand everything on earth, in the seas, in heaven, as well as the beginning and end of all events. Likewise for the five other stars, with their motions, their uneven paths, and their varied phases. Although they are called “variable” and “wanderers” <planetai>, they have a fixed nature and return to the same places in regular cycles and periods.'' - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
You are right Valens, this is superior to the idiotic explanations of astrology we have nowadays.
Last edited:
There don't need to be an atomic 4 classical elements, toss them out if you wish, any perceivable cosmological cause such as change of temperature and moisture will suffice. I don't see what is the problem investigating this, since scholars themselves are interested in what is called seasonal biology, which is sublunar, but most related to the Sun. It can be indirect through many seemingly unrelated causes (say the Sun causes heat, and heat causes that, and that causes something else and only through many causes, does it affect rank - let it be a mystical relationship if you will), but at the end of the day, the planets are either primary causes or they are nothing.
Last edited:
david starling
Well-known member
Looking at Dahmer's Chart, which is used in the article as an example, I noticed that in both 7/12 and 10/12, the Ascendant-sign Libra is ruled by Venus Domicled in Taurus, which makes it the final Dispositor.
In 12/12 however, Venus is Exalted in Taurus, which instead is the Domicile of Gaia's Trident (now in Capricorn in everyone's Natal-chart, Domicile of Saturn), which makes Saturn in Capricorn the final Dispositor. Then, there's the Moon in Aries opposite the Ascendant in Libra, and T-squaring Saturn in Capricorn--no sweetness and light there.
[In 12/12, the Ascendant is one of the 12 major Sign-rulers, Domicled in Sagittarius. Gaia's Trident is based on the Age Window, and is also one of the 12 major rulers, Domicled in Taurus.]
Last edited:
david starling
Well-known member
Metal, Wood, Water, Fire, and Earth.
Saturn and Mars predominate the Moon and Mercury through the house of Aries, through the trigon of Gemini by day, through the terms of Saturn (in my table, as well as the Chaldean ones), through the afflicting aspects of Saturn and Mars to the Moon, and the aspect of Mars to Mercury. The elevation and trigon of the Sun increases these effects. Saturn and Mars are declining, in their houses, but which are opposite to their sects through the elevation and the trigon rulers, and in square with each other.
''In the opposite positions (Saturn, allied with Mars) makes his subjects robbers, pirates, adulterators, submissive to disgraceful treatment, takers of base profits, godless, without affection, insulting, crafty, thieves, perjurers, murderers, eaters of forbidden foods, evildoers, homicides, poisoners, impious, robbers of temples and of tombs, and utterly depraved.'' - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/3D*.html#13
Pretty accurate description of the soul by Ptolemy if you ask me, especially if you consider that Saturn and Mars also predominate the Midheaven, which can also indicate murder.
But if houses, especially whole signs, don't signify anything, then you wouldn't be able to cherry pick from meaningless information.
Last edited:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
petosiris as one familiar with astronomical principles
perhaps you would comment on the following
given
the cusp of a house is 22[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]°[/FONT] 10' Taurus
and
Fixed Star Algol is at 26[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]°[/FONT] 27' Taurus
then
can anyone suggest that the Fixed Star is conjunct that cusp
perhaps you would comment on the following
given
the cusp of a house is 22[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]°[/FONT] 10' Taurus
and
Fixed Star Algol is at 26[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]°[/FONT] 27' Taurus
then
can anyone suggest that the Fixed Star is conjunct that cusp
petosiris as one familiar with astronomical principles
perhaps you would comment on the following
given
the cusp of a house is 22[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]°[/FONT] 10' Taurus
and
Fixed Star Algol is at 26[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]°[/FONT] 27' Taurus
then
can anyone suggest that the Fixed Star is conjunct that cusp
Some astrologers such as William Lilly allowed 5 degree conjunction with some stars like Algol. I do not think that is correct, but I haven't payed much attention to it.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
I'm not an horary astrologer so am ignorant on these matters
I had assumed that William Lilly did not use fixed stars at all
my question is relevant to the mechanics
of how
a Fixed Star
is being considered conjunct 'a cusp'
I'm not an horary astrologer so am ignorant on these matters
I had assumed that William Lilly did not use fixed stars at all
my question is relevant to the mechanics
of how
a Fixed Star
is being considered conjunct 'a cusp'
I am not a horary astrologer either, but Lilly wrote on nativities as well.
A house cusp is used by some astrologers just as they use the Ascendant and the Midheaven to indicate the matters of the house - they somehow consider that the influence of the house spreads across many degrees, but at the same time is most important at the beginning, don't ask me about the natural theory behind that.
The Midheaven (degree) is different from the Midheaven (place/house). A declining planet in the 9th can influence the Midheaven degree more than the Midheaven house can influence it. This is also true to experience, not every action or child given is as distinguished as the 10th makes things be.
Last edited: