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  #26  
Unread 06-11-2020, 01:07 AM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
The logic behind opposition is the opposing temperaments and elements of two signs. Airy and moist Libra (ruled by Venus) is the opposite of hot and dry Aries (ruled by Mars). So it is the temperaments that stand in opposition to each other, which is why the signs are said to be in opposition to each other.
In Hellenistic astrology, the most common element assigned to the sign was corresponding to the season - so dry and moderately cold Libra is opposed by moist and moderately hot Aries, hot and moderately dry Cancer by cold and moderately moist Capricorn and so on. Although this holds for the zodiac, it doesn't necessarily hold for the planets. For example, the Sun at 1 Aries is obviously in opposition to an almost Whole Moon at 29 Virgo. You may technically even have a total eclipse in different signs.

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Unread 06-11-2020, 01:11 AM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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Is a "Sextile" also a Traditionalistic "Disjunct"?
Since it has neither Element nor Modality in common.
Hexagon or sextile signs have masculine or feminine incorporeal gender in common.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 01:40 AM
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Hexagon or sextile signs have masculine or feminine incorporeal gender in common.
Hence, the word, Sextile.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 01:50 AM
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Smile Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

Interesting, that in terms of magnetism, opposites attract!
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Unread 06-11-2020, 07:53 AM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

"I consider the term "Orb" in this context to mean "sphere of influence" "

Very well expressed.
Thank you.
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  #31  
Unread 06-11-2020, 08:49 AM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post


To answer the question, I'd say that the Orbs can be in opposition, even though the Longitudinal positions are not in opposite Signs. These would be labeled as "out-of-Sign Oppositions".
However, out-of-Sign Oppositions, while worth noting,

are less influential in the chart than in-Sign Oppositions. Same goes for the other Aspects.
"out-of-Sign oppositions" have considerable impact on the life of the native
dependent on the totality of testimonies of the individual natal chart
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  #32  
Unread 06-11-2020, 09:05 AM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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"I consider the term "Orb" in this context to mean "sphere of influence"
Very well expressed.
Thank you.
The difference between ORB and SPHERE

WHEN USED AS NOUNS - ORB MEANS A SPHERICAL BODY
i.e.

a spherical body such as a globe
especially, one of the celestial spheres - a sun, planet, or star

also
a circle - especially, a circle, or nearly circular orbit
described by the revolution of a heavenly body
an ORBIT

whereas

SPHERE means a regular three-dimensional object
in which every cross-section is a circle.
such as
a spherical physical object - a globe or ball


WHEN USED AS VERBS - orb means to form into an ORB or CIRCLE
whereas
SPHERE means to place in a sphere - or among the spheres
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Unread 06-11-2020, 09:38 AM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


In Hellenistic astrology, the most common element assigned to the sign was corresponding to the season - so dry and moderately cold Libra is opposed by moist and moderately hot Aries, hot and moderately dry Cancer by cold and moderately moist Capricorn and so on. Although this holds for the zodiac, it doesn't necessarily hold for the planets. For example, the Sun at 1 Aries is obviously in opposition to an almost Whole Moon at 29 Virgo. You may technically even have a total eclipse in different signs.
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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


Hexagon or sextile signs have masculine or feminine incorporeal gender in common.

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Hence, the word, Sextile.

fact-check

the word SEXtile is derived as follows
In geometry, a hexagon from Greek ἕξ HEX "six" and γωνία, gonía, "corner, angle"
= a SIX-sided polygon

from LATIN - the Roman Numeral 6 is written 'VI' & pronounced 'sex' in Latin



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  #34  
Unread 06-11-2020, 09:53 AM
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Smile Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
fact-check

the word SEXtile is derived as follows
In geometry, a hexagon from Greek ἕξ HEX "six" and γωνία, gonía, "corner, angle"
= a SIX-sided polygon

from LATIN - the Roman Numeral 6 is written 'VI' & pronounced 'sex' in Latin



Really?!? You mean it has nothing to do with Sextile signs being of the same gender? Well, I stand corrected!
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Unread 06-11-2020, 10:03 AM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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Really?!?

You mean it has nothing to do with Sextile signs being of the same gender?



Well, I stand corrected!


from LATIN

Roman Numeral 6 is written 'VI' & pronounced 'sex' in Latin

hence
SEXTILE an aspect of 60°

i.e.

one sixth of a circle
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Unread 06-11-2020, 10:05 AM
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Smile Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

Next thing you know, it'll turn out that Hexagons have nothing to do with witchcraft!
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  #37  
Unread 06-13-2020, 01:05 AM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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Next thing you know, it'll turn out that Hexagons have nothing to do with witchcraft!
Or one could say that witchcraft is all it is when aspects are understood based solely on "geometry"
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Unread 06-13-2020, 02:06 AM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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In fact, it seems the important factor is the number of degrees between the two, not whether they share sign or element.
A trine can also be out of sign.
When day is thought of as the opposite of night, it is because of its temperament. Night is cool and dark. Day is warm and bright. Not because there is any geometrical degrees to be considered.

In Astrology also, the reason two signs oppose each other is because of their temperaments, not simply because of the degrees or geometry, which is hardly a basis by itself to consider two signs in opposition.

Astrology is based upon the temperament, element and energies of signs and planets. That is the fundamental underlying concept and extremely important to understand. This is exactly the reason why we say that Venus is weakened in the hot and dry Aries. Therefore the energy of Venus, which supports partnership (two) is lost in the sign of individuality of Aries.
In Taurus, when the cold season is gradually turning to warm spring and nature is beginning to come back to life, Venus, which is all about beauty, tranquility and nature thrives in Tau. However, it is lost in the sign of Sco, where the temperament changes to cold, wet and dark perfectly reflecting transformation and endings. The flora starts withering away and loses its colour and beauty. These are the reasons that these signs oppose eachother because their energies are in opposition. Not simply because they are 180* apart. This is why understanding the fundamental concepts behind those planets and signs is so important, especially for those that practise Horary, where especially we talk about concepts of dignities and debilities.
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  #39  
Unread 06-13-2020, 04:43 AM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

Do oppositions occur at the equator then? If aspects are based on sign temperament, the answer would be no. Yet you see different phases relative to the Sun.

Day and night in astrology is not decided with temperament, but with the Sun rising or setting over the degree of the Asc/Dsc.

Last edited by petosiris; 06-13-2020 at 04:46 AM.
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Unread 06-13-2020, 11:46 AM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

So, Aquarius7000, two planets in opposition but one at zero degrees and the other 29 degrees of two different signs, you would not consider an opposition ?
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Unread 06-13-2020, 03:23 PM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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So, Aquarius7000, two planets in opposition but one at zero degrees and the other 29 degrees of two different signs, you would not consider an opposition ?
Since they will be in two different signs, whose energies and temperaments (how they play out) are not opposing each other, no, I wouldn't. It has nothing to do with degrees for me. It has everything to do with the energies and the temperaments for me - as explained in my earlier post. After all, it is not because of the 29th or 0 degree that the Sun is in detriment or feels uncomfortable in the cold and moist sign of Aquarius, where the fire of the Sun, which represents the ego - singular identity (I, me, mine) struggles to express it self properly. Aquarius is concerned with the expression of the group, thereby dissolving the singularity or ego. Where does the question of degree even arise here? This is why we say that the planet in a sign is coloured by the energy and element of that sign because the element, temperament and energy of the sign is very important to how a planet in that sign functions. Saturn in hot and dry Leo similarly cannot function properly because Leo is concerned about expressing itself uniquely - as if nobody compares to them - the ego is at the forefront, whilst Saturn, which is completely at the mental plane, feels uncomfortable with expressing itself singularly through its heart, putting in forefront its own identity. Saturn likes to stay 'cool' and act responsible. In Aquarius, it is concerned with taking responsibility of the group/ society.

Now, if we were to go by the concept of oppositions being merely a "geometrical" concept, it would mean that the Sun at 29th or 0 degree of Aquarius would feel comfortable, even though it is in the exact opp. sign to its own domicile sign of Leo. However, that is not the case. Sun is uncomfortable in all degrees of Aquarius.

The best way to approach this is to understand first thoroughly the energies and elements of each sign. Then understand the nature of each planet, and then you will be able to comprehend why the planet of a certain nature has difficulty expressing itself in the opposite sign
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  #42  
Unread 06-13-2020, 04:25 PM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

Thank you for the explanation.
I use the opposition with the idea that two forces of energy are opposed to each other.


"Now, if we were to go by the concept of oppositions being merely a "geometrical" concept, it would mean that the Sun at 29th or ) degree of Aquarius would feel comfortable, even though it is in the exact opp. sign to its own domicile sign of Leo. However, that is not the case. Sun is uncomfortable in all degrees of Aquarius. "

No. Opposition is contrast, there is a difficulty in relating to each other.
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Unread 06-13-2020, 04:56 PM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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Thank you for the explanation.
I use the opposition with the idea that two forces of energy are opposed to each other.


"Now, if we were to go by the concept of oppositions being merely a "geometrical" concept, it would mean that the Sun at 29th or ) degree of Aquarius would feel comfortable, even though it is in the exact opp. sign to its own domicile sign of Leo. However, that is not the case. Sun is uncomfortable in all degrees of Aquarius. "

No. Opposition is contrast, there is a difficulty in relating to each other.
Good point - in bold. Next step is to logically understand - why there is difficulty in relating? Because the temperaments are different, and so the Sun is not able to live itself/ its purpose of singularity (I rule, I am king) out in the sign that lives on the mental level, Aquarius, whose energy serves the purpose of bringing equilibrium and order to the group. That is the reason there is difficulty in relating, not because of the 29* or 0* theory.
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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Good point - in bold. Next step is to logically understand - why there is difficulty in relating? Because the temperaments are different, and so the Sun is not able to live itself/ its purpose out singularly in the sign that lives on the mental level, Aquarius, whose energy serves the purpose of bringing bring equilibrium and order to the group. That is the reason there is difficulty in relating, not because of the 29* or 0* theory.
After all, if we were to go just by geometry as the concept for opp. etc - we could forget about Horary. In Horary, we don't say Mars is in detriment in Libra because it is at 0* or 29* of Libra. It is in 0* or 29* in Scorpio and Cap also, but why is it not in detriment in Cap; rather on the contrary, it is exalted there.
Same with the Sun, why is Sun not in detriment in Aries, but it is in Aquarius (as explained in multiple posts). Degrees are there in every sign, but Mars or the Sun or Venus does not feel detrimented in 0* of every sign. It is because the energies are different of every sign, and in the sign in opposition to its own domicile's energies, the planet is able to least fulfil its true purpose. Therefore, if a planet thrives (is dignified) in its domicile, how can it not feel uncomfortable in the opposite kind of energy. This really is the fundament of Astrology and key to practise it properly, IMO.
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  #45  
Unread 06-13-2020, 05:52 PM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

So if a planet is in 0 Aries and another is in 29 virgo, how should we interpret the aspect?
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Unread 06-13-2020, 06:19 PM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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So if a planet is in 0 Aries and another is in 29 virgo, how should we interpret the aspect?
They have no meaning in terms of opposition - this is the short answer - as I have to run and errand and will respond elaborately later.

However, referencing the above posts, in the meanwhile, you might want to have a go yourself and I will chime in later.
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Unread 06-13-2020, 06:56 PM
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Smile Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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They have no meaning in terms of opposition - this is the short answer - as I have to run and errand and will respond elaborately later.

However, referencing the above posts, in the meanwhile, you might want to have a go yourself and I will chime in later.
Their Orb-fields are in opposition. Sign divisions aren't "hermetically sealed" imo. Meaning, that the Orbs are extensions of the longitudinally-located postions, and can have influence in two Signs at once.
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Unread 06-13-2020, 07:27 PM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

Here is another insight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXkbOqxPNMk
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

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Their Orb-fields are in opposition. Sign divisions aren't "hermetically sealed" imo. Meaning, that the Orbs are extensions of the longitudinally-located postions, and can have influence in two Signs at once.
This is still using geometry to justify, which has nothing to do with energies, but since it seems Elena and you use geometry as the justification, I will leave you to it. We are all feel to believe what we want to, so I will end my effort of explaining signs and energies.

It is just always very interesting how people belie their ownselves when trying to do Horary Astrology - where suddenly they use the sign-energy concept, in Horary to say Mars is in detriment in Tau (not because it is in at a certain degree).
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Unread 06-13-2020, 08:03 PM
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Re: How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

Following your reasoning, a planet in zero Aries is not conjunct a planet in 29 pisces.
A planet in zero Aries is not squared a planet at 29 sagittarius.
It is difficult to accept the fact that a one degree change in position will annul an aspect, just because it crosses over a sign border.
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