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Electional and Event Astrology Discuss here astrologically good times to do things, and what's happening astrologically when something major happens. Includes sports astrology.


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  #26  
Unread 09-05-2021, 03:39 PM
AppLeo AppLeo is offline
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Re: Getting away with it

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Agreed, but I think there could be a lot of nuance here. For instance, Saturn could be safely tucked away in the chart of the moment but making a hard hitting transit to your birth chart. Hard hitting Saturn transits are times when, if you've been evading authority and getting away with something, authority catches up with you.

You can also lose big on a fifth house endeavor. Though that may be more likely if the condition of the fifth house ruler isn't so good.

However, Jupiter also deals with ethics and community morals. If what you're doing is unethical, or simply against your society's standards, Jupiter might not be on your side.

Now, if you come up with a moral justification for what you're doing, Jupiter may favor you.

It's also a house where "harmful" planets can do the least harm. Tuck Saturn safely away in the twelfth, and Saturn problems aren't so much of an issue. Or so it's been said, traditionally, as a reason why Saturn joys in the twelfth. That, and the isolation and endings.

I suppose Jupiter in the twelfth may be a lucky placement in this kind of event chart for the same reason. Plus, as katydid said:
That's a good point with Saturn being hidden in the 12th. For Jupiter, I would actually think the opposite. If Jupiter is in the 12th, then it can't be "out there" doing its good work.

I would imagine Mercury in the 12th would be a place of trickery. What people say and think is hidden away or isolated from other people. They could probably get away with stuff, compared to someone with Mercury on the angles.

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  #27  
Unread 09-06-2021, 04:25 AM
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Re: Getting away with it

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
That's a good point with Saturn being hidden in the 12th. For Jupiter, I would actually think the opposite. If Jupiter is in the 12th, then it can't be "out there" doing its good work.

I would imagine Mercury in the 12th would be a place of trickery. What people say and think is hidden away or isolated from other people. They could probably get away with stuff, compared to someone with Mercury on the angles.
Jupiter doesn't need to be 'out there' to be doing it's good work. The 12th house is Jupiter's realm. That's it's spiritual seat.

With the transit of Jupiter to the 12th, you will be under spiritual protection. You will also be more connected with your subconsciousness and you will be overflowing with empathy and compassion. That's it how it does it's work.
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  #28  
Unread 09-06-2021, 04:27 AM
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Re: Getting away with it

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Jupiter doesn't need to be 'out there' to be doing it's good work. The 12th house is Jupiter's realm. That's it's spiritual seat.

With the transit of Jupiter to the 12th, you will be under spiritual protection. You will also be more connected with your subconsciousness and you will be overflowing with empathy and compassion. That's it how it does it's work.
I thought 12th house was home of Saturn. But I see what you mean..
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  #29  
Unread 09-06-2021, 04:45 PM
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Re: Getting away with it

Again, we're talking about the twelfth house of an event chart here, not a natal chart.

For an event chart, when the event is you doing something you're aiming to get away with, my thought is that you'd want to tuck away any planets that would interfere. Saturn is authority. Jupiter is morals. If those planets are hiding, in a cadent house, they've got less power to manifest. Authority and morals aren't going to come down on you.

Except maybe when those planets have moved to a more active position, perhaps?
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  #30  
Unread 09-06-2021, 05:06 PM
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Re: Getting away with it

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post

I thought 12th house was home of Saturn.


But I see what you mean..
12th House is the JOY of SATURN

12th MAY be the home aka DOMICILE of SATURN

IF either CAPRICORN or AQUARIUS on cusp


.
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  #31  
Unread 09-06-2021, 05:44 PM
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Re: Getting away with it

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
I thought 12th house was home of Saturn. But I see what you mean..
Joys aren't the same thing as domicile, and we're looking at two different schools of astrology here. The twelfth house vibe with Jupiter is based on the natural chart and the idea of natural house rulers: the alignment of signs with houses based on Aries as the first house, Mars as the natural first house ruler, Taurus/Venus as the second, etc. That aligns Pisces with the twelfth, so gives the twelfth some Jupiter because of Jupiter's traditional rulership of Pisces. However, natural houses are a thoroughly modern astrology concept.

Houses of joy are a traditional concept, and they don't have the same basis as natural houses.

But we can certainly draw from both ideas. That connects both Jupiter and Saturn with the twelfth house.
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Last edited by Osamenor; 09-06-2021 at 05:49 PM.
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  #32  
Unread 09-06-2021, 06:09 PM
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Re: Getting away with it

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post


Joys aren't the same thing as domicile, and we're looking at two different schools of astrology here. The twelfth house vibe with Jupiter is based on the natural chart and the idea of natural house rulers: the alignment of signs with houses based on Aries as the first house, Mars as the natural first house ruler, Taurus/Venus as the second, etc. That aligns Pisces with the twelfth, so gives the twelfth some Jupiter because of Jupiter's traditional rulership of Pisces. However, natural houses are a thoroughly modern astrology concept.

Houses of joy are a traditional concept, and they don't have the same basis as natural houses.

But we can certainly draw from both ideas. That connects both Jupiter and Saturn with the twelfth house.

since we are "...drawing from both ideas..."

lets consider that originally,
traditionally
THEMA MUNDI
associates 12th House with SATURN and MERCURY
Saturn's signs aspect the signs of both the luminaries via OPPOSITION.
Capricorn opposes Cancer.
Aquarius opposes Leo.
So opposition traditionally is of the nature of Saturn.
because
It's denying and hindering.
A strong, blocking aspect

because

Saturn is the greater malefic

as the two images illustrate:






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  #33  
Unread 09-11-2021, 08:07 PM
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Re: Getting away with it

*


Since this is a big topic
podcast episode is three hours long:
In the first hour talking about the premise of electional astrology
and some conceptual and philosophical issues related to the topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5HHr0iBr00&t=313s

In the second hour technical details
of what to look for and focus on when trying to find a good electional chart


'
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  #34  
Unread 09-22-2021, 12:25 PM
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Re: Getting away with it

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post

Literal numbers aren't exactly relevant here.
The point is, plenty of crimes, including but not limited to murder, are gotten away with.
Fixating on the numbers is non-astrological. This is an astrological thread. Please tie in the relevant astrology.
And, as you point out, some unsolved crimes do get solved after decades.
There have been people arrested for murder after decades of getting away with it
and likely believing they'd gotten away with it for good.
Most other crimes, in most countries, have statutes of limitations
that preclude being arrested decades after the fact
otherwise there could be even more kinds of crime
that lead to arrests decades later.

I wonder about those cold case solves.

Do they inevitably happen when something in the culprit's transits
or progressions echoes their transits at the time of the crime?
Did the original crime have all the right conditions, astrologically,
for getting away with it, and then progressions interfered? Something else?
It's rare/unusual to have moment of murder timed reliably for electional work
and
progressions in those cases are not calculable
Also rare to have RELIABLE time of birth for murderer or victim
and
Certainly many decades may pass - SATURN and TIME
before cold cases are solved
but it does happen
a recent case being
Remains of suspected victim of worst ever US serial killer IDENTIFIED
FORTY-FOUR YEARS after being found


"....Although now deceased
Little died in December in California
where he was serving a life sentence for multiple counts of murder
Samuel Little is considered prime suspect in death of Clara Birdlong..."
statement from the Jackson County Sheriff's Office said.


January 2021 detectives began working with Texas-based DNA research company Othram
to create a family tree for Jane Doe.Othram quickly identified a distant cousin of the victim
who put them in touch with her 93-year-old grandmother
who was originally from Leflore County.
She said her cousin, Clara Birdlong born 1933
went missing in the 1970s.
Another distant cousin said Ms Birdlong was a small woman
WITH A GOLD FRONT TOOTH and wore a wig.

VICTIMS SKELETAL REMAINS provided FORENSIC clues to appearance
so PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS provided the means to ID

but no reliable ASCENDANT
there is no date of birth for the victim currently available








Investigators then spoke to a woman in Leflore County
who said Ms Birdlong left in the 1970s
with a man who claimed he was heading to Florida.
She was never heard from again.
Little had confessed to killing 93 people between 1970 and 2005
with most of the slayings taking place in Florida
and southern California.

Little's date of birth: Friday June 7th 1940

Time of birth: UNKNOWN
Place of birth: Reynolds, Georgia, United States
Name at Birth: Samuel McDowel

.



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  #35  
Unread 09-22-2021, 08:35 PM
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Re: Getting away with it

I would look for favorable Saturn aspects. Saturn puts the brakes on in life, and when the brakes are released, people feel that they have more leeway.

I once had a coworker with a big Saturn trine. He got away with a lot of stuff that he shouldn't have.

Traditionally Mercury rules liars, tricksters, and thieves; but since Mercury also rules good communicative abilities, I'd look for how it is aspected.

A sextile aspect confers excitement. If other chart factors indicate someone Up To No Good, a sextile would probably push him/her into enjoying beating the system.

I note that all kinds of people do things they shouldn't, like thieves, not just notorious murderers.

There are probably some supportive fixed stars, as well.
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Last edited by waybread; 09-22-2021 at 08:41 PM.
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  #36  
Unread 09-22-2021, 08:38 PM
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Re: Getting away with it

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I would look for favorable Saturn aspects. Saturn puts the brakes on in life, and when the brakes are released, people feel that they have more leeway.

I once had a coworker with a big Saturn trine. He got away with a lot of stuff.
We're talking about an event chart, not a natal chart. Presumably, your coworker's Saturn trine was in his natal chart?
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  #37  
Unread 09-22-2021, 08:49 PM
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Re: Getting away with it

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

I would look for favorable Saturn aspects.
Saturn puts the brakes on in life, and when the brakes are released, people feel that they have more leeway.
I once had a coworker with a big Saturn trine.
He got away with a lot of stuff that he shouldn't have.
Traditionally Mercury rules liars, tricksters, and thieves;
but since Mercury also rules good communicative abilities, I'd look for how it is aspected.
A sextile aspect confers excitement.
If other chart factors indicate someone Up To No Good,

a sextile would probably push him/her into enjoying beating the system.
I note that all kinds of people do things they shouldn't, like thieves, not just notorious murderers.

There are probably some supportive fixed stars, as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post


We're talking about an event chart, not a natal chart.

Presumably, your coworker's Saturn trine was in his natal chart?

also traditionally
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Saturn is malefic....
....makes those born under him

concealing
deceitful
hypocritical.

Saturn controls secrets, strangulation....

Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
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  #38  
Unread 09-24-2021, 05:20 AM
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Re: Getting away with it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
We're talking about an event chart, not a natal chart. Presumably, your coworker's Saturn trine was in his natal chart?
Oops, got it.

But I will partially stick to my point. I mean, many people are not actually tempted to do something really bad. Opportune moments can come and go without triggering an out-of-character action. I think the natal chart has to show some kind of proclivity to do something immoral/unethical before the person would sieze a moment when they might get away with something.

Then I suppose it's one thing to commit an actual crime, and another thing for someone to, say, cheat on a spouse believing it was true love and therefore justified; or say something rude to a neighbor who had it coming.

Lots of gray areas.
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  #39  
Unread 10-04-2021, 01:43 PM
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Re: Getting away with it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
I wonder about those cold case solves.
SATURN is cold

and is also associated with TIME

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post

Do they inevitably happen when something in the culprit's transits
or progressions echoes their transits at the time of the crime?
Did the original crime have all the right conditions, astrologically
for getting away with it, and then progressions interfered? Something else?
SATURN rules bone structure


In California
a couple finds a skeleton in a shallow grave under their house
a missing person report filed 14 years earlier
may have covered up a murder.
Skeleton Of Missing Person Found 14 Years Later

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK1BCcLyRxk

and a search for a missing man
ends in the discovery of a cold blooded murder
A team of forensic scientists established the victims approximate TIME of death
after the skeleton of Chris Denoyer
was identified using dental records comparison
The suspected killer's car, when impounded by police
revealed dried blood
which was forensically examined using DNA technology
and matched Chris Denoyer
After 14 years "...getting away with it..."
the killer was tried and sentenced
Convicted killer Jackson Villarta won't see the light of day anytime soon.
The killer has been behind bars for more than two decades.
In 1984, Villarta, now 66, shot and killed his stepson Christopher Denoyer.
He then buried his stepson's body in a crawl space beneath their Salinas home on Navajo Drive.
It took investigators more than a decade to recover Denoyer's decayed body.
Villarta was convicted of second-degree murder in 2000
Tuesday's hearing was his third.

He was denied in 2009 and again in 2016.
While up for parole for the third time
the parole board denied a plea for freedom.
The Monterey County District Attorney's office said
Villarta will be eligible for an administrative review
and a subsequent hearing in 18 to 36 months


.
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