Please Note: Lapis Did Not Create This Thread

"I will go through all the charts today and see which charts might be inaccurate, due to the planet concerned having close promimity to a cusp, and so being in that house, rather than the former....."
Draco

Draco,

It is so good to know that at age 24 Draco, you KNOW which natal charts might be inaccurate :!: :!: :!: For starters you or anyone else does NOT have my personal permission to change one tiny freaking thing in my natal chart, now or ever. That jobs mine and mine along thank you very much!

Now you Draco, and anyone else, DOES have the right to ***** with my natal chart to your hearts content - all in the name of what? Research? Curiosity? Self appointed Deity status? Possession? Science? Astrology? When I shared my natal chart here I expected some people would tweak it a bit by trying different house systems and so on out of curiosity. I've done this myself and don't see anything wrong with doing this privately. But what you're wanting to do publicly is so far beyond this that I'm shocked.........and I'm being really polite here!

You have your personal belief systems about things, astrology being one of them Draco, and so do all the other astrologers and people learning or trying to learn more about astrology. BUT because I have different beliefs about natal astrology than the next person, does NOT give me the right to change other people's natal charts on a public forum for any reason. Many of us are astrologers and have been for the past 20, 30, 40 or more years. I'm not saying that because of this the people who've been studying and loving astrology for more decades than you've been alive are 'all knowing' and have 'all the answers'. Far, far from it. So what are you doing and why seems to be the question?

Radu's been kind enough to create a space, a forum (Spiritual Area) where I and others who are interested, can share....keyword here is share our personal experiences and expanding belief systems on a number of topics. I'm profoundly grateful to him for this. But I'd never claim or expect or want anyone to have nothing else but my perspective, my personal belief's, available to them. That's not how learning works. That's how certain things and realities are controlled.

It is so good to know that at age 24 Draco, you KNOW which natal charts might be inaccurate

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No, no, no! Draco was not referring to the actual natal charts as being inaccurate, but rather the categories in which I placed them...

I shouldn't have posted this personal message without explaining the context in which it was written; I sincerely appologize to Draco and the rest of the community. I am willing to take full responsibility for my hasty actions and request that further comments be directed at myself instead of Draco.

Arian Maverick

Well, I've only just read through this thread, and erm...it's been interesting to say the least!

Firstly,

Draco, I hope you won't mind if I post a personal message you sent me in order to demonstrate this idea:

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I don't mind in the slightest Mav, it says just about what I would have said on this thread anyway.

Lapis,

It is so good to know that at age 24 Draco, you KNOW which natal charts might be inaccurate

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What has my age got to do with this? Oh, and by the way, I'm 23 not 24.

For starters you or anyone else does NOT have my personal permission to change one tiny freaking thing in my natal chart, now or ever.

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Now you Draco, and anyone else, DOES have the right to ***** with my natal chart to your hearts content

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:? :? :?

So which is it?

How can anybody change anybodies natal chart? :? I'm not sure whether you got the wrong end of the stick or not, but I suspect you probably have. What I was referring to in my post to Mav, was the categories in which our charts are placed according to planets in houses. You see, Mav categorised them so that, for example, if a person's Moon for example was a degree or two away from the cusp of a house, I was simply pointing out that such a planet would usually be considered as being in the next house, rather than in the former. I was merely pointing this out that's all, and as far as I was aware Mav appreciated me having told her that this would usually be the case, and so I forwarded a list of which planets might be considered in the next house. The reason that Mav forwarded the post was because it was particularly relevant to this discussion. Never once did I suggest altering a person's chart (which is impossible anyway isn't it?), I was merely indicating that in some of the categories it might be more appropriate to consider the person's said planet to be in the next house rather than the former for which it was categorised. I was thinking an orb of 5 degrees, although as I said, this thought comes from horary in which the 5 degree rule would be usual. As Frisiangal said, perhaps 3 degrees would be fairer. Perhaps different margins should be considered for different planets? Obviously this is a topic worthy of some debate. However, all I was pointing out to Mav, was that regardless of the amount of degrees used, it is usual, when a planet is closely approaching a cusp, to consider it as being in the next house. If you wouldn't, fair enough, that's up to you.

No hard feelings Lapis, as you obviously got the wrong end of the stick, and evidently, you aren't the type to launch uncorroborated attacks and administer bad vibes.

I sincerely appologize to Draco and the rest of the community

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No apology necessary for me, I'm not at all easily offended, and I don't harbour grudges. Not that you attempted to offend me in anyway, but no need to apologise on behalf of those that did.

Draco

I just sent Lapis a fairly lengthy personal message further explaining the situation...hopefully, all will turn out for the best

Arian Maverick

Hi again,

I just sent Lapis a fairly lengthy personal message further explaining the situation...hopefully, all will turn out for the best.

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Cheers Sweetness.

The thing is, across a forum, we must communicate without the benefit of tone of voice or body language, and this may on occasion lead to misunderstandings. I should know, I've done it myself.

Draco

And I too have PMed Arian Maverick a couple of notes about this issue and in my opinion, she never had anything to apologize for! This isn't about her.

And Draco I'm not going to play word games wars with you for nothin'. Period. I haven't gotten the wrong end of anything actually.

DELETED, AND ADDED:

I have removed the unpleasnt things that I said to Lapis in this post. I do not want a dispute with Lapis over such silly things, when we never really had an argument with each other in the first place.

I deleted because this whole mess is all ****!

Lapis, I send you my love, and I apologise, I should have realised.

Draco

I want it known publicly that I did not start this thread and that I did not name this thread. The first post by me in this newly materialized thread had originally been an on-going post on the on-going thread entitled "The Empty House Blues". But someone decided to move it (the first post here by me) and created this new thread with it.

I can understand why that unpleasant discussion was removed from its original location and once again, I apologize benyaw, for derailing another of your threads. Obviously someone has provided me and Draco with a special new thread to continue to verbally duke-it-out if we so desire. What I want clearly understood is that I didn't create this thread even though it appears like I did.

My one post to Draco got moved here and given a thread all to itself and named even! And so now it appears like I started this thread when I didn't and of course it looks like I named it too, which I didn't. I can't even express how shocked, angry and disappointed I am because of this. What Draco and I were going through was painful and hard enough all on its own, but now for this to suddenly appear looking like I created it? This is too much........

If this thread must remain as is, then I'd like Radu to remove my name from the area indicating that I created it please, because I didn't.

I take full responsibility for what I've said to Draco publicly. And Draco if you continue to publicly make some statements claiming different things as utter absolutes then I and I hope others too will also confront you about making those type of claims publicly. We can all say what we want to say and express what we believe to be truths for us and that's how it should be I feel. But to publically claim, repeatedly on different forums and about different issues, that what you believe is THE way it is is just wrong I feel. That Draco, is what caused me to loose it in my first post at you. (the first one on this thread)

Lapis,

I sincerely appologize for upsetting you with the creation of this thread...I was simply attempting to keep The Empty House Blues on topic.

I am not sure how to insert a message before yours and thus remove your name as the "creator" of this board. If I cannot find a way to alter this, I will remove these posts should I also receive permission from Draco.

Arian Maverick

Hi,

What Draco and I were going through was painful and hard enough all on its own, but now for this to suddenly appear looking like I created it? This is too much........

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I'd have to agree on that totally. It seems that things are being stirred, which I only first suspected but now I realise to be plainly apparent.

Actually I was very relieved to see that our unpleasant exchanges had been removed, only to find that they had been reinserted again, many hours later, which frankly makes the awful situation a whole lot worse. Obviously.

I take full responsibility for what I've said to Draco publicly. And Draco if you continue to publicly make some statements claiming different things as utter absolutes then I and I hope others too will also confront you about making those type of claims publicly. We can all say what we want to say and express what we believe to be truths for us and that's how it should be I feel. But to publically claim, repeatedly on different forums and about different issues, that what you believe is THE way it is is just wrong I feel. That Draco, is what caused me to loose it in my first post at you. (the first one on this thread)

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Lapis, you know, I really never wanted to fall out with you at all. I'm sorry. As for me saying that things are utter absolutes, I still hold that I do not understand what you mean about this, which is why I thought you had misunderstood me. I can be a fierce debater, I know that, but if some of my convictions (which can be swayed by a convincing counter-argument by the way) come across as forceful in the way I express myself then I can't help that, that's just me. As you have said, we can all say what we want to say, and that is all I do. In any case, even if you did feel that I was trying to 'lay down the law' with my opinions, which is what I think you are somehow feeling, then all you need to do is bite back! As long as it's civil! Debates often happen on forums, I am sorry if I have upset you, and believe me, I haven't enjoyed this myself and I too have found it upsetting, but like I said, it seems that things have been stirred.

So in light of that Lapis, I do apologise to you. I'm not being sarcastic this time, because I've worked this one out now. We have been cornered into this, regrettably.

Now I know what all this is really about, I can only tell you that I am so sorry, and I hope that we can forget about this. If you can forgive my personal attacks, I can certainly forgive yours. xxx

By the way, I was out of order with what I said before, but I'm not sorry for my opinions on other threads. That's just me!

A lot of trouble is caused by personal messages being posted on the forum. I don't think it should be allowed from now on.

No hard feelings Lapis. Can we forget it and move on?

Draco x

Yesterday evening I was surprised to find that the moderator had removed messages that may have remained hidden and unseen in a labyrinth of a post read only by those interested in the subject heading, because they were 'off topic', to display them under separate and different headings where they have become the focus of attention for all and possibly caused more embarrassment to the posters personally.

It brings up the question of when does a post go off topic in such a way that moderating is deemed necessary. Each astrologer has personal views regarding astrology's practice which will turn a topic off its main road onto a side street that, however indirectly, is still connected to the main thread. Apples, pears and bananas are all acceptable in a topic about fruit, but are cauliflowers and string beans therefore 'off topic' and must be excluded if someone attempts to explain the difference between fruit and vegetables? There can be no exchange of ideas without discussion and debate of the validity of personal perspectives, which I know from personal experience can become vehement in content. When the exchange becomes a confrontation of personal character in order to win a point, moderator intervention should be applied. As a spectator, from my view it looked as if L was challenging D's astrological focus regarding planets/house position, as per the thread heading, but not attacking him personally. As such the post was not off topic. IMO.

To add a touch of actual astrology to this post which I hope wil not be taken as OT, the transiting Black Moon Lilith in Virgo has provided me with umpteen examples of where unacceptable criticism, fault and blame has occured. Out of interest I looked at the 3 charts in the natal charts section around whom this thread revolves. Transting BML is now in 12 degrees Virgo sextile transiting Jupiter in Scorpio. Take a look see at what 'proof' it reveals in the charts concerned.

F.

Just to remind everyone here, I am seventeen years old. I am doing the best I can to fulfill my duties both as a moderator and an active participator of these forums, yet I do not yet possess much of the life experience and insight needed to make the best decisions.

I am also an unyielding perfectionist and have been since birth. I have struggled with OCD in the past and experience an unreasonable yet compelling desire to control every aspect of my reality. I cringe whenever I see a thread veer off in another direction, and it takes much effort for me not to take administrative action.

Now that I have been properly chastised, I would greatly appreciate it if I could wallow in my own misery in peace.

EDIT: This is my Personal Daily Horoscope for today--Monday, 15 May 2006.

A radical reappraisal

On this day you will probably have difficulty relating to others, feeling cool and reserved even toward those you love. The problem is that you will have to spend today reevaluating what you are getting out of your relationships and what you are putting into them. You will have a strong awareness of yourself as an independent, even isolated human being, realizing that no one can really get inside of you and feel what you feel. Obviously, this can lead to loneliness and depression, but it can also lead to a radical reappraisal of your life and to a sober consideration of yourself as a human being relating to other human beings. It is necessary to separate yourself from the illusions that run through even the best relationship and to look at what is really there.

The interpretation above is for your transit selected for today:
Venus Square Saturn exact at 06:22
activity period from 14 May 2006 to 16 May 2006.

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Arian Maverick

Life lessons

Maverick,

It is a challenge being a moderator, but a challenge you accepted. Consider this a life lesson about how to (and how not to) work out your 1rst house (being, also action) square (energy needs to be combined with) 10th house (duty, also authority). Sometimes the best action for an authority to take is no action at all! Also consider what Frisiangal suggested: moderators only need to moderate when there is a problem. When there is no problem, let the people (and the threads) alone!

Also consider this a test of your need to "improve" everything. When is a person improving and when is a person interfering? When is a person controling their own reality and when is a person interfering with another's ideas? When does a thread "veer off in another direction"? When you decide it does? As you know, with a stellium (collection of energy) in the 10th house in Capricorn (duty, also authority), you have a way of becoming the "authority" in things. So be the best authority you can...and learn from your mistakes. That IS why you decided to take on the challenge of being a moderator in the first place, isn't it?

Ecnouraging learning...not wallowing,

Tim

Hi all,

To add a touch of actual astrology to this post which I hope will not be taken as OT, the transiting Black Moon Lilith in Virgo has provided me with umpteen examples of where unacceptable criticism, fault and blame has occured. Out of interest I looked at the 3 charts in the natal charts section around whom this thread revolves. Transting BML is now in 12 degrees Virgo sextile transiting Jupiter in Scorpio. Take a look see at what 'proof' it reveals in the charts concerned.

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Interesting observation Frisiangal.

More interesting still, I found, is what transiting Mars, confrontational and argumentative as he is, was triggering in the charts involved.

When all this first started a couple of days ago, Mars (in fall) was at 16 degrees of Cancer. See how Mars was configuring itself by square aspect with the natal Mars and Mercury postions in the charts involved at 16 degree's Libra and Aries. Most interesting.

Mav,

Now that I have been properly chastised, I would greatly appreciate it if I could wallow in my own misery in peace.

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LOL. Don't worry about it. I'm sure it all forgotten now anyway.

The PHD from astro was interesting. I was curious to have a look at my own. This is my PDH for today, although I'm sure that this aspect was more significant yesterday, when all this was still ongoing:

Petty personal motives.

Weak, transient effect: Today during the day you may display great sensitivity and feeling in front of or when dealing with others. Or you may allow your thinking to be entirely overcome by personal and subjective considerations so that no one can communicate with you or understand you. This influence can go either way. On the positive side, it enables you to feel out the mood of a group of people so that you can appeal to their deepest emotional concerns. But on the negative side, this influence may make you shy away from groups or from people in general. The same energy that enables you to feel out moods also makes you feel vulnerable and exposed with others. Thinking and decision- making are not favored by this quality of time, because your mind is dominated by petty personal motives that cannot go beyond your immediate psychological necessities.

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Add that to what transitting Mars was up to in the charts, and: boom!

Draco

I'm so tired and depressed about all of this...I feel like I'm back in middle school, with a horde of girls surrounding my lunch table shouting accusations...

I'm sorry, but I simply can't do this anymore. Goodbye.

Arian Maverick

Hi Maverick,
Chastised? Accused? It's perhaps how you feel it to be, but it really isn't so. Only by pointing out how/where misunderstandings, errors, mistakes etc. occur can we learn to correct them so that we don't make the same mistakes again. Age has nothing to do with it. My children AND grandchildren regularly teach me that!
Fleeing from or leaving A.W will not make you feel better, but probably a lot worse. You will miss the participation in the forums just as much as your helpful presence and cheerful nature will be missed. Don't allow depression to overcome you when a simple act of swallowing your pride can prove to be more effective in getting past a temporary hurdle.

To-morrow is a new day, when to-day becomes history.

F.

NooOoOooo..AM don't leave meeeeeee!!!

MB fights are such" freakin bullcrap", as Napoleon Dynamite would say. :roll:

This will pass, and in a month everyone will be cool with each other again...Sun is close to Algol now, and so is Merc...I'm expecting more confrontations here & in RL, play it cool till the transit ends.

*Hugs*
Pixy

Instead of PMing Draco and Arian Maverick I'd rather do this publicly so we all can gain whatever it is that's in this for each of us. I'm a Cap, that "I Use" thing is true! To me everything is to be used as a learning tool for all of us no matter what its 'flavor'. And usually the more unpleasant, the more you learn.

Let me start off with a quote I found a couple days ago by Barbara Hand Clow. It's from her April 2006 New Moon 'report'. When I read it a whole big bunch of things finally made more sense to me about one aspect of some things I've been going through. As with all things however, I also know that more was/is/and will continue to be going on, helping to give us all more opportunities to learn and grow from. Lucky us huh?

"The first Jupiter/Saturn square in mid-December 2005 was: 1) The time to identify what issue you felt compelled to work on, and 2) it occured just after Mars in Taurus went direct in 8 Taurus. First of all, please recall that the fixed grand squares lasted for months in late 2005 and early 2006 because Mars retrograded in Taurus, so those degrees in Taurus are worth watching. Now, Jupiter is retrograde in Scorpio which bring these forces back again. Well, notice that the New Moon in 7 Taurus is conjunct the deep retrogarde of Mars in Taurus (8 Taurus) that went direct exactly during the first Juptier/Saturn square! So, hidden in the folds of this astrology is the hint that this lunar cycle-only 29 days-is going to dredge up all of the personal and political issues that have been going on since November 2005. Ouch!

What can you do? First of all, take some time to remember what happened in your life during mid-December 2005. That is the only way you can use this lunar cycle to make signigicant progress on what you were working on this winter....." Barbara Hand Clow

Well for me December 2005 was emotionally horrible and I got into a........heated disagreement.......lets call it :roll: with Elianah. Then the other day I stumbled across a post by her where she said something that to me was SO wonderfully insightful and profound, I was moved to tears and I got it! The wild crazy seemingly disconnected pieces fell into place for me now because Elianah had made some personal self discovery! All of this was directly connected back to Dec. 05's mega fixed square energies.

Then about a month ago (that 29 day lunar cycle Clow mentioned?) I was psychically sensing many "stirrings" as you very correctly named them Draco. At first I thought that it was you I was picking up. In all honestly it dosen't matter who or what I was sensing really. No one person or group of people or Being or archetypal energies is to blame for anything in my opinion. We are simply living the astrology we all talk about! So in the end it dosen't matter to me really who becomes my 'Teacher' in the moment. Last December during that mother of a fixed square, Elianah became my 'Teacher' and I'm actually very grateful to her for the role she played to teach me different things.

This time around its been Draco and Arian Maverick. With my Libra Moon and all the rest, I really hate this type of business but there it is. Life......learning.......mirroring........projecting........whatever! We all take on subtle momentary roles for each other so that a brief little 'drama' can be acted out in the hopes that we actually learn and change!. How would we learn otherwise? This is Live Astrology in all its wild and wonderful colors! My personal goal is to not get so out of balance emotionally even though I'm connected to everything. I don't want much huh?!

Arian Maverick you did nothing wrong. And what I bitched about, you fixed. Thank you very much for that. In your place I would have done exactly what you did by moving the drama posts elsewhere. I'd have just added a brief explanation at the beginning, but you explained that you couldn't figure out how to do that. I wouldn't know how to do any of what you do! Please don't get all weird like I've been OK? How was that for Elder advice? :mrgreen: Or if you must, do it fast, learn all that you can, and get back in the perverbal saddle again with your new hard earned tools.

Draco I too think with you and I being the only people here with Pisces risings we could share some great stories/teachings/learnings etc. Some times shite builds up in me for different (psychic and energetic) reasons and most of the time I can figure it out before I make a public ass of myself and get all out of balance emotionally again and again and again. I didn't read between the energy-lines well this time and I'm sorry. We're living in amazingly wonderful and amazingly difficult times and honestly, I'm surprised at how good a job we all have been doing over the past 8 months or so. It's been so freaking intense on so many levels. I think we're all 'Golden' actually for not killing anything and riding these energies on out with only the occasional minor drama's like this one.

I apologize to everyone for still being human. I'm workin' on it. Deep thanks to you Draco and Arian Maverick for being Teachers for me so that I can deal with my shite faster. That's never an easy job when it comes up for us!

You're both right; I definately need to get over myself!

There is so much work still to be done...

Arian Maverick