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  #1  
Unread 07-06-2020, 10:29 PM
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Aunt on Facebook

I have lots of extended family who I'm not that close to but keep in touch with on Facebook. Mostly, it's just a post here and there about what people are up to, an occasional hi-how-are-you message, things like that. One of my aunts likes to post viral political-religious memes, of the right wing variety. Which is the polar opposite of most of my views, but whatever, I mostly just ignore it.

Just recently, though, she gave me a perfect opportunity to step in, when she posted the rumor that Facebook has banned the Lord's Prayer. Her son, my cousin, said no, it's a hoax, while I obliged her request to post the Lord's Prayer by posting this translation.

My aunt didn't respond to that, but the next meme she posted was... pretty racist, and I'm not sure how to respond to that. You never win arguments on Facebook. You never win arguments with family, least of all distant family. But I feel a bit of moral obligation to not let stuff like this go. Unlike the Lord's Prayer hoax, I can't think of a good humored way to clap back.

What would you all do?

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  #2  
Unread 07-07-2020, 03:03 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

You've given a good example of why I let my Facebook account lapse.

If you've got your aunt's horoscope, you might be in a good position to sleuth out the best way to communicate.

Maybe thank your cousin, point out that social media are full of hoaxes, and post something inspiring by a member of the visible minority that most upsets your aunt.
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  #3  
Unread 07-07-2020, 08:51 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
I have lots of extended family who I'm not that close to but keep in touch with on Facebook. Mostly, it's just a post here and there about what people are up to, an occasional hi-how-are-you message, things like that. One of my aunts likes to post viral political-religious memes, of the right wing variety. Which is the polar opposite of most of my views, but whatever, I mostly just ignore it.

Just recently, though, she gave me a perfect opportunity to step in, when she posted the rumor that Facebook has banned the Lord's Prayer. Her son, my cousin, said no, it's a hoax, while I obliged her request to post the Lord's Prayer by posting this translation.

My aunt didn't respond to that, but the next meme she posted was... pretty racist, and I'm not sure how to respond to that. You never win arguments on Facebook. You never win arguments with family, least of all distant family. But I feel a bit of moral obligation to not let stuff like this go. Unlike the Lord's Prayer hoax, I can't think of a good humored way to clap back.

What would you all do?

What was the meme? I ask because everything can be considered "racist" nowdays.
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  #4  
Unread 07-07-2020, 05:10 PM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
What was the meme? I ask because everything can be considered "racist" nowdays.
I won't pass it on because it's racist enough to be against this site's rules. I'll just say it starts with a response to Black Lives Matter that says, essentially, no they don't.

For perspective, my aunt lives in a very white area, and pretty conservative, too. Think Bible Belt. I don't think she's consciously racist so much as falling for the ideology when she hears it. But, that's really how racism usually works. And to put it in perspective even more, I've heard some casually racist statements coming from left coast liberals closer to home. They just go about it in a different way. But that's not who I'm connected to on Facebook.
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  #5  
Unread 07-07-2020, 05:14 PM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

If you've got your aunt's horoscope, you might be in a good position to sleuth out the best way to communicate.
I don't. I'm not even sure of her birthdate. She's an aunt by marriage, and technically not even that anymore, she and my uncle have been divorced a long time. But she's my cousins' mom and I grew up knowing her (though not closely) as an aunt, so I still think of her that way.

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Maybe thank your cousin, point out that social media are full of hoaxes, and post something inspiring by a member of the visible minority that most upsets your aunt.
I hit the like button on my cousin's post, all right. I am thinking of putting something on my own feed about what Black Lives Matter does and doesn't mean.
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  #6  
Unread 07-07-2020, 05:33 PM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
I won't pass it on because it's racist enough to be against this site's rules. I'll just say it starts with a response to Black Lives Matter that says, essentially, no they don't.

For perspective, my aunt lives in a very white area, and pretty conservative, too. Think Bible Belt. I don't think she's consciously racist so much as falling for the ideology when she hears it. But, that's really how racism usually works. And to put it in perspective even more, I've heard some casually racist statements coming from left coast liberals closer to home. They just go about it in a different way. But that's not who I'm connected to on Facebook.

I wouldn't do anything then. I presume she is from an older generation. Its not like you are going to change her mind.
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Unread 07-07-2020, 06:57 PM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
I wouldn't do anything then. I presume she is from an older generation. Its not like you are going to change her mind.
You're right, I won't change her mind. That's part of the dilemma. But I also feel that putting up another perspective could be useful, if not for my aunt personally, then for the others who see it. At the very least, it wouldn't be complicit silence on my part.
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  #8  
Unread 07-07-2020, 08:26 PM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
At the very least, it wouldn't be complicit silence on my part.
I don't get that expression "complicit silence". Why would you be responsible for someone elses opinion or action?

I think you are trying to convince yourself to go ahead and post something, even if you feel unsure if you should. The question you should ask, is why you think you have to say something to begin with.
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  #9  
Unread 07-07-2020, 09:38 PM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

Did she post "ALL LIVES MATTER"?

Because I have heard people say that saying ALL LIVES MATTER means the same thing as saying 'Black Lives Don't Matter.' Which is not what it means at all, in my opinion.
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  #10  
Unread 07-07-2020, 10:00 PM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

Well, it's like-- in the general universe, of course all lives matter.

But too often the slogan "all lives matter" is used in a way that undermines and discredits the very real and serious issues faced by African American communities in interactions with the police.

Here's a detailed discussion of the problem:
https://www.vox.com/2016/7/11/121361...l-lives-matter
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  #11  
Unread 07-08-2020, 12:50 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Did she post "ALL LIVES MATTER"?
No. All lives matter is within the rules of this forum. What she posted was a bit more of a push than that.

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Because I have heard people say that saying ALL LIVES MATTER means the same thing as saying 'Black Lives Don't Matter.' Which is not what it means at all, in my opinion.
In and of itself, you're right. The mere words "all lives matter" do not mean black lives don't matter. But using that as a rejoinder to "Black lives matter" is, well, like "all plates matter" in this video.

I actually saw the best rejoinder to "all lives matter" posted in someone's window the other day, and I did post that on my Facebook page: "All Lives Can't Matter UNTIL Black Lives Matter."

Now I'm getting an idea for starting a conversation on Facebook. Not directed at my aunt, though of course she'd be welcome to join, but discussing with whoever wants to participate what "Black Lives Matter" means and how people react if they find it uncomfortable. Which, I think, is really what pushback against it is about.

I'm glad you posted that, though, because it's complicated and it's helpful to have perspective from people who don't necessarily see it the way I do.
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  #12  
Unread 07-08-2020, 01:05 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
I don't get that expression "complicit silence". Why would you be responsible for someone elses opinion or action?

I think you are trying to convince yourself to go ahead and post something, even if you feel unsure if you should. The question you should ask, is why you think you have to say something to begin with.
I may not be responsible for someone else's opinion or action, but not countering helps give the impression that it's okay. Or that it's just a difference in political views. Black Lives Matter, and everything that's been happening to make it necessary, is much more serious than that.
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  #13  
Unread 07-08-2020, 01:17 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Well, it's like-- in the general universe, of course all lives matter.

But too often the slogan "all lives matter" is used in a way that undermines and discredits the very real and serious issues faced by African American communities in interactions with the police.

Here's a detailed discussion of the problem:
https://www.vox.com/2016/7/11/121361...l-lives-matter
Yes, this.
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  #14  
Unread 07-08-2020, 03:26 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

Osamenor, perhaps Dirius suggests that we need to pick and choose our battles. As well as teaching moments.

But I applaud what you wish to do. Sometimes we have to stand up for what we know to be right, even when nobody else gets it.

Let me paraphrase a Jewish joke, told by Elie Wiesel.

A man on a busy street corner was dressed in a white robe, shouting and holding up a sign that read, "Repent! The End is Near!"

A friend of his happened to walk by, and said, "Mike, what are you doing? You know these people will pay no attention to you! You are not going to change them."

The man said, "I know. I do it so that they will not change me."
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Last edited by waybread; 07-08-2020 at 03:29 AM.
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  #15  
Unread 07-08-2020, 03:41 AM
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My husband’s uncle used to send us a lot of stuff that was racist, against, well everyone.

He is a nice guy in person, I enjoy him. But, he wouldn’t stop when asked. So we started writing him, explaining that we are of mixed races and don’t appreciate that stuff.

Then one day, we noticed, he had stopped, some of them are sexist, or blondist but, I will accept that he put in the effort. Now I look forward to 90% of his memes. Cool

I can’t change everything. But, I can try influence people without anger.

I don’t know how close you are to her. Do you care if you lose her? Do you can influence her, kindly? Depending on what you are willing to lose, may depend on what you can win.

Good luck Oz.
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  #16  
Unread 07-08-2020, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Osamenor, perhaps Dirius suggests that we need to pick and choose our battles. As well as teaching moments.

But I applaud what you wish to do. Sometimes we have to stand up for what we know to be right, even when nobody else gets it.

Let me paraphrase a Jewish joke, told by Elie Wiesel.

A man on a busy street corner was dressed in a white robe, shouting and holding up a sign that read, "Repent! The End is Near!"

A friend of his happened to walk by, and said, "Mike, what are you doing? You know these people will pay no attention to you! You are not going to change them."

The man said, "I know. I do it so that they will not change me."
I love it! 🙂
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  #17  
Unread 07-08-2020, 05:15 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
but not countering helps give the impression that it's okay.
To whom?

If you are doing it for popularity points, go ahead, but seems to me you are more worried about what other people may think, than what your aunt may have actually done. That never ends well.

I wouldn't recommend you to go out against your aunt on the public sphere. My personal opinion is family comes first, above everything else, even ideology. Family grievances are to be resolved in private, never in public.

I think your cousin, acting against his own mother in a public setting, was wrong.
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Or that it's just a difference in political views. Black Lives Matter, and everything that's been happening to make it necessary, is much more serious than that.
Na, BLM is just a marxists movement trying to cause chaos, which ironically is hurting their image even more, making them seem like petty activists. Outside the twitterverse, no one agrees with BLM.
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Last edited by Dirius; 07-08-2020 at 05:54 AM.
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  #18  
Unread 07-08-2020, 06:17 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post
My husband’s uncle used to send us a lot of stuff that was racist, against, well everyone.

He is a nice guy in person, I enjoy him. But, he wouldn’t stop when asked. So we started writing him, explaining that we are of mixed races and don’t appreciate that stuff.

Then one day, we noticed, he had stopped, some of them are sexist, or blondist but, I will accept that he put in the effort. Now I look forward to 90% of his memes. Cool

I can’t change everything. But, I can try influence people without anger.

I don’t know how close you are to her. Do you care if you lose her? Do you can influence her, kindly? Depending on what you are willing to lose, may depend on what you can win.

Good luck Oz.
I'm not close to her at all. I grew up miles away from extended family and only saw them a handful of times. After she divorced my uncle, I saw even less of her.

I did decide to make a post discussing Black Lives Matter and what it means on my own page. I don't know if my aunt will even notice or necessarily think it has anything to do with her, and I don't care either way. It got some positive feedback from several of my friends... and a HUGELY racist screed from a cousin on the OTHER side of my family, who I had no idea felt that way.

That cousin shares my last name, though, so at least when my friends see it, they'll realize it's an unchosen relationship.
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  #19  
Unread 07-08-2020, 06:24 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
I wouldn't recommend you to go out against your aunt on the public sphere. My personal opinion is family comes first, above everything else, even ideology. Family grievances are to be resolved in private, never in public.
Which is why I'm going gently and not calling out my aunt specifically. That makes it a statement of my own views, not a family grievance. Sure, my relatives inspired me to say it, but it's about the idea, not the person. That's also why I'm not blocking her even though I find some of her posts distasteful. Nor my other cousin, the one who posted a racist screed on my page.

Quote:
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I think your cousin, acting against his own mother in a public setting, was wrong.
Acting against her? Looked to me like he was trying to stop her from making a fool of herself. Incidentally, Facebook has since covered that meme with a false label.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Na, BLM is just a marxists movement trying to cause chaos, which ironically is hurting their image even more, making them seem like petty activists. Outside the twitterverse, no one agrees with BLM.
No one? That's funny, I know lots of people irl who are for it. To the point that they've marched and faced the tear gas.
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Unread 07-08-2020, 06:27 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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No one? That's funny, I know lots of people irl who are for it. To the point that they've marched and faced the tear gas.
And how many of them are part of the twitterverse/social media sphere?
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Unread 07-08-2020, 06:29 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Which is why I'm going gently and not calling out my aunt specifically. That makes it a statement of my own views, not a family grievance. Sure, my relatives inspired me to say it, but it's about the idea, not the person. That's also why I'm not blocking her even though I find some of her posts distasteful. Nor my other cousin, the one who posted a racist screed on my page.

Acting against her? Looked to me like he was trying to stop her from making a fool of herself. Incidentally, Facebook has since covered that meme with a false label.
That is a fair approach. I also think your racist cousin is in the wrong for disagreeing on your own post, in the sense he should just let you be.
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  #22  
Unread 07-08-2020, 06:46 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
And how many of them are part of the twitterverse/social media sphere?
I don't know. That's not where I know them from.

But if they are part of the social media sphere, they're putting out much more effort in the real world than there.
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Unread 07-08-2020, 06:57 AM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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I don't know. That's not where I know them from.

But if they are part of the social media sphere, they're putting out much more effort in the real world than there.
No movement which is based on paid activists protesting is ever genuine, and rarely attracts the interest of the larger public. And most people don't care about the BLM movement at all. A couple of thousand people marching, is not significant when you consider the ratio to the adult population.

Sure, companies are bullied into making pro BLM statement, so is the general population on twitter or facebook. Many just share or like BLM posts for popularity points with their peers.

Doesn't mean they care. The large majority of people see this as an act of police brutality, which occurs to people of any given ethnicity.

I don't think such issues are worthy of risking a rift within the family. Much less on a public setting were outsiders will get involved and be judgemental, and cast opinions on your family members.

But thats just my opinion. I like to discuss politics, but I would never do something that would risk ridiculing a family member, or making him or her the target of harrasment (like your cousin did with you). Not that I'm saying that you are, but as we know political discussions get out of hand.
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Last edited by Dirius; 07-08-2020 at 07:02 AM.
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
I may not be responsible for someone else's opinion or action, but not countering helps give the impression that it's okay. Or that it's just a difference in political views. Black Lives Matter, and everything that's been happening to make it necessary, is much more serious than that.
Absolutely agree with the words in bold.

I will admit that I have lost a close relationship with some in my social circle due to challenging their views (racist and others), as in their eyes, if I am a friend, I need to agree with everything they say and 'like' all their posts. Else, I am negatively affecting their popularity on social media by showing them the other side of the coin/argument.

Albeit only a handful, there have been cases that actually do understand other's perspective and make the effort of understanding that there can be information/ facts they failed to consider when making their assertions.
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Unread 07-08-2020, 09:30 PM
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Re: Aunt on Facebook

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Na, BLM is just a marxists movement trying to cause chaos, which ironically is hurting their image even more, making them seem like petty activists. Outside the twitterverse, no one agrees with BLM.
Folks, some responses to this comment have turned into a separate discussion. So as not to overwhelm one topic with the other, I moved those posts here. Feel free to follow up with that discussion over there, as long as you keep it respectful, about the issue not the person, and within the rules.

This thread's purpose is to discuss handling this kind of disagreement with relatives and other loved ones. I didn't intend to make it a debate on the BLM movement itself. Naturally, some opinions on BLM are being voiced, not all of which match mine, and that's fine, but let's not turn this whole thread into that debate.
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