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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #76  
Unread 01-02-2020, 12:22 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd78 View Post
SO

on Jan.10th 2020

it`s gonna be a fatamorgana

because Moon will be eclipsed = opposing Sun by latitude AND longitude.

and Mercury will "only" be conjunct Sun by degree and minute of longitude in tropical zodiac.

what a tricky planet !


so shat`s the difference between cazimi and Sun eclipse?

if both require involved planets to be conjunct both by latitude AND longitude?
The planets aren't large enough to block the Sun. They can be seen on the Sun as black spots, with Venus as a "beauty mark".

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  #77  
Unread 01-02-2020, 12:58 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
The planets aren't large enough to block the Sun. They can be seen on the Sun as black spots, with Venus as a "beauty mark".
The (annular) eclipse last week also couldn't block the Sun. The Moon also has to be closer to the Earth, for there to be a total eclipse.
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  #78  
Unread 01-02-2020, 01:01 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
The (annular) eclipse last week also couldn't block the Sun. The Moon also has to be closer to the Earth, for there to be a total eclipse.
So, for the eclipses, it's the Perigee, not the Apogee?
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  #79  
Unread 01-02-2020, 02:25 PM
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Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
The (annular) eclipse last week also couldn't block the Sun. The Moon also has to be closer to the Earth, for there to be a total eclipse.
Right

so alone the fact that something isn`t visible to the human eye ( like any bacteria, not to mention viruses etc. ! )



OR from a certain location (like e.g. Earth cazimi as seen from Mars, if it is astronomically possible)

doesn`t DENY the existence of this thing or phenomenon

Last edited by dd78; 01-02-2020 at 02:39 PM. Reason: unclear sentence
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  #80  
Unread 01-02-2020, 02:58 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
So, for the eclipses, it's the Perigee, not the Apogee?
The perigee, there it is also faster, the perihelion of the Sun also helps slightly.

But it doesn't have to do that much with the distances, but rather with the total obscuration that causes enormous emanating amount of moisture, heat, dryness or cold by spilling it into the atmosphere.

Last edited by petosiris; 01-02-2020 at 03:03 PM.
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  #81  
Unread 01-03-2020, 11:50 AM
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Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Depends on what is your definition of ''exactly conjunct''?
I meant within 16 minutes from Sun in longitude.


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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Cazimi planets by 16 minute longitude are quite rare, I am one of the blessed children of mother nature. I even have it exactly at IC.
I had a cazimi Moon in my previous solar return chart.
Nothing of a blessed nature happened, though

The most important event of that period was my mom`s sudden death due to heart arrest, which may be interpreted as a blessing in a way, I must admit.
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  #82  
Unread 01-03-2020, 03:30 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Cazimi

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I meant within 16 minutes from Sun in longitude.
A planet is within 16 minutes of each angle for 2 minute and 8 seconds on average (depending on the rising time of the degree), but always for 8 minutes and 32 seconds with all four angles every day. Each planet is going to be within 16 minutes of an angle for 2.16 days over the year.

Saturn and Jupiter are going to spend a bit more than 12 hours in cazimi each year (because of their slow direct speed), Mars, Venus and Mercury as direct planets have almost 2 days (because they move along with the Sun), when Venus and Mercury are retrograde, they spend even less hours than Saturn and Jupiter (because they move in opposite directions). Thus the seven planets as whole in conjunction with the Sun are slightly more rare than in conjunction with the four angles, though Mercury and Venus individually spend slightly more time in cazimi.

The 16 minutes are arbitrary and do not have much to do with conjunctions per se, but rather with the average diameter of the Sun's disk.

Last edited by petosiris; 01-03-2020 at 04:47 PM.
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  #83  
Unread 01-03-2020, 03:40 PM
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Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Strange that when the two Luminaries are together, darkness is the result!

Just another of one of them paradoxes!
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  #84  
Unread 01-03-2020, 03:44 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Cazimi

The Moon blocks the light of the Sun, or is shadowed by the Earth, it is like a false luminary?!
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  #85  
Unread 01-03-2020, 03:47 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
As you may know
an Ephemeris is a checkable database
on which anyone may check for themselves whether or not


for those unfamiliar with an EPHEMERIS
planets are shown by sign location
and so

one may check
location of any planet or planets
and
in this particular case
one may then check

whether Mercury and Venus
are in same degree and minute of same sign
on any given date of any given year


nine thousand years EPHEMERIS FREE online
at https://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm

Thank you, JA.

And I wonder if you might say a bit about how you perceive that the ephemeris might answer a question like:

Does the explanation of the irregularity of Merc's and Venus' being cazimi have to do with Merc's and Venus' orbits being between Earth and Sun, while Earth lies between the orbits of the rest of the planets and the Sun?


I'm baffled how it might be the proper reference.
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  #86  
Unread 01-03-2020, 04:40 PM
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Smile Re: Cazimi

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Here's some information on the subject:

http://fallonastro.com/text-cazimivenus-04.html
This site explains the astronomy.
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  #87  
Unread 01-03-2020, 04:50 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post


Thank you, JA.



no problem at all - great to be appreciated

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post


And I wonder if you might say a bit about how you perceive that the ephemeris might answer a question like:
Does the explanation of the irregularity of Merc's and Venus' being cazimi
have to do with Merc's and Venus' orbits being between Earth and Sun,
while Earth lies between the orbits of the rest of the planets and the Sun?
I'm baffled how it might be the proper reference.
to clear the baffling nature of this issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Here's some information on the subject:

http://fallonastro.com/text-cazimivenus-04.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

This is true mostly for Mercury and Venus, and it has to do with their orbits.
Their stations also occur in only similar places for example,

Venus is retrograde only in five signs or so in a lifetime, though
in some hundred years, they will be different.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...4&postcount=55
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  #88  
Unread 01-03-2020, 05:29 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Thank you, JA.

And I wonder if you might say a bit about how you perceive that the ephemeris might answer a question like:

Does the explanation of the irregularity of Merc's and Venus' being cazimi have to do with Merc's and Venus' orbits being between Earth and Sun, while Earth lies between the orbits of the rest of the planets and the Sun?


I'm baffled how it might be the proper reference.
JA prefers quantity of information over quality.
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  #89  
Unread 01-03-2020, 05:34 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


JA prefers quantity of information over quality.
You're too kind
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  #90  
Unread 01-03-2020, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
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You're too kind
Siriusly
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  #91  
Unread 01-03-2020, 11:31 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Thank you, JA.

And I wonder if you might say a bit about how you perceive that the ephemeris might answer a question like:

Does the explanation of the irregularity of Merc's and Venus' being cazimi have to do with Merc's and Venus' orbits being between Earth and Sun, while Earth lies between the orbits of the rest of the planets and the Sun?


I'm baffled how it [the ephmeris] might be the proper reference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
<...>


to clear the baffling nature of this issue

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...4&postcount=55

I see, JA. Since you did not share your perception of how an ephemeris could answer the question I raised, but rather referred me to a narrative that does in fact give at least a partial explanation, I am no longer baffled :

the ephemeris does not answer the question I raised, as you demonstrate and as I suggested.


And I especially thank and value Petosiris, who answers questions as clearly and directly as he is able.
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  #92  
Unread 01-04-2020, 12:40 AM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post


I see, JA. Since you did not share your perception of how an ephemeris could answer the question I raised, but rather referred me to a narrative that does in fact give at least a partial explanation,

I am no longer baffled :
brilliant news - that's great - no more bafflement

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post


the ephemeris does not answer the question I raised,
as you demonstrate and as I suggested.

And I especially thank and value Petosiris, who answers questions
as clearly and directly as he is able.
we all thank and value petosiris
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  #93  
Unread 01-04-2020, 12:41 AM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

The Moon blocks the light of the Sun, or is shadowed by the Earth,
it is like a false luminary?!

moon eclipsing sun is transient - Siriusly

- tidal interaction between the Earth and the Moon means that
Moon is moving away from the Earth
at a rate of about four centimeters per year

Moon's gravity exerts a drag on the Earth that slows its rotation
and
Earth's gravity exerts a pull on the Moon that expands its orbit
https://www.space.com/3373-earth-moo...integrate.html
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  #94  
Unread 01-04-2020, 12:10 PM
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Re: Cazimi

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
A planet is within 16 minutes of each angle for 2 minute and 8 seconds on average (depending on the rising time of the degree), but always for 8 minutes and 32 seconds with all four angles every day. Each planet is going to be within 16 minutes of an angle for 2.16 days over the year.
I`d say it would be easier to elect a chart with a planet both in domicile AND on MC.
If it shall happen while the planet is also in cazimi, it makes only a few minutes of an appropriate time in a year.

AND the latter option is impossible for Mercury and Venus, since these planets can be cazimi only in certain signs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Saturn and Jupiter are going to spend a bit more than 12 hours in cazimi each year (because of their slow direct speed), Mars, Venus and Mercury as direct planets have almost 2 days (because they move along with the Sun), when Venus and Mercury are retrograde, they spend even less hours than Saturn and Jupiter (because they move in opposite directions). Thus the seven planets as whole in conjunction with the Sun are slightly more rare than in conjunction with the four angles, though Mercury and Venus individually spend slightly more time in cazimi.
They say "heaven can wait".

Humans can`t wait for the most appropriate time sometimes.
And humans are sometimes late.

Anyway, it seems that tHE EMPHASIS of a planet alone isn`t a guarantee of happily-ever-after.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
The 16 minutes are arbitrary and do not have much to do with conjunctions per se, but rather with the average diameter of the Sun's disk.

Yes, but It`s easier to compare cazimi planet to a conjunction of a planet to an angle if the latter is within 16minute orb.

Last edited by dd78; 01-04-2020 at 12:24 PM. Reason: unclear sentence
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