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  #1  
Unread 09-24-2020, 05:54 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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How should I turn the chart here?

Someone I've communicated with for a while online (never met before, just chat about tarot etc.) gave me a horary question about a celebrity. First of all, I considered her as L7, but should she be L11? She's not exactly a 'friend', but it's not a romantic connection.. I considered her like a client, so is she L7?

Then if she's asking about someone she doesn't know, but 'the other' again, would the celebrity (an actor) also be her L7?

In which case am I correct to read it with the actor's ascendant at the chart ascendant? Or..

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  #2  
Unread 09-24-2020, 07:31 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

If she gave you the question, she should be the querent, therefore ascendent.
And asking about an unknown person, who would be the 7th.
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  #3  
Unread 09-24-2020, 08:55 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
If she gave you the question, she should be the querent, therefore ascendent.
And asking about an unknown person, who would be the 7th.
Oh right, so I donít insert myself in it at all. Should I use my location then, or hers?
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  #4  
Unread 09-24-2020, 09:03 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

If you ask the question, then you insert yourself, and use your location.
If she asks then she is the querent, and use her location.
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  #5  
Unread 09-24-2020, 11:20 AM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
If you ask the question, then you insert yourself, and use your location.
If she asks then she is the querent, and use her location.
Ok thanks. Iíve found lots of people saying different things on this.. Frawley says ĎThe place for which the chart is set is that of the astrologerí.. Maybe this one comes under personal choice..
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  #6  
Unread 09-24-2020, 11:26 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

I believe this refers to a situation when someone at a distance asks you a question and you calculate the moment when you heard the question as the moment of the question, and insert your location. And you as astrologer become ascendent, and location is where you are.
For example " I'd like to know if my boyfriend is sincere". So the moment of the chart becomes the moment when they expressed it to you.
If on the other hand, someone says, I have this question to ask that came to be at this time, day and place, then you in effect just do the calculation but the question belongs to the person asking you and becomes the querent.
Agreed, not easy.
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  #7  
Unread 09-24-2020, 12:04 PM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
I believe this refers to a situation when someone at a distance asks you a question and you calculate the moment when you heard the question as the moment of the question, and insert your location. And you as astrologer become ascendent, and location is where you are.
For example " I'd like to know if my boyfriend is sincere". So the moment of the chart becomes the moment when they expressed it to you.
If on the other hand, someone says, I have this question to ask that came to be at this time, day and place, then you in effect just do the calculation but the question belongs to the person asking you and becomes the querent.
Agreed, not easy.
Ok so do you mean:

a) if the client sends the astrologer the exact, clear question and time they thought of it.. (e.g. ď I woke up at 2:39am and the question for horary was clear in my mind: ĎWho stole my three prize cattle last Thursday??í Iím in Cornwall, England.Ē ..then the astrologer casts the chart for the time and location of the querent and their question, with the querent as ruler of H1.

But b), if the client (communicating from another location) hasnít decided on a specific question, but in the course of communicating with the astrologer, forms or clarifies the exact question.. the astrologer uses the time and location that *they* understood what was being asked, and casts the chart with him/herself as L1, the querent as L7, and the quesited as seen from the 7H cusp?
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  #8  
Unread 09-24-2020, 12:41 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

Yes, exactly
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  #9  
Unread 09-24-2020, 02:03 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

The answer must always be clear! The astrologer should cast the chart when he/she read and understand the question and then use the location and time of the astrologer. The querent is here always L1, not L7!
To use the time and location when the question came into the querent's mind could also be used but this can often be problematic (if we don't really know when the question came first into our mind)- that's why it's simpler to ask someone to cast a chart for us.
In your case: a friend/a client ask you to cast a chart, so you use your location and time and querent is L1. It's the same principle when you cast the chart for yourself. Not only Frawley-other astrologers do the same.

Last edited by kalinka; 09-24-2020 at 02:09 PM.
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  #10  
Unread 09-24-2020, 03:12 PM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
The answer must always be clear! The astrologer should cast the chart when he/she read and understand the question and then use the location and time of the astrologer. The querent is here always L1, not L7!
To use the time and location when the question came into the querent's mind could also be used but this can often be problematic (if we don't really know when the question came first into our mind)- that's why it's simpler to ask someone to cast a chart for us.
In your case: a friend/a client ask you to cast a chart, so you use your location and time and querent is L1. It's the same principle when you cast the chart for yourself. Not only Frawley-other astrologers do the same.
Ok so some people say the astrologer places themselves as L1 and querent L7 in certain circumstances -- querent as L1 in other circumstances. Some people say the astrologer is never in the chart.

I can find some *authoritative indications* for the time/location matter, but does anyone have a reference for the question of whether the astrologer should ever put themselves as L1 in the chart?
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  #11  
Unread 09-24-2020, 03:34 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux111 View Post
Ok so some people say the astrologer places themselves as L1 and querent L7 in certain circumstances -- querent as L1 in other circumstances. Some people say the astrologer is never in the chart.

I can find some *authoritative indications* for the time/location matter, but does anyone have a reference for the question of whether the astrologer should ever put themselves as L1 in the chart?
How do u think Lilly and Bonatti did cast and read horary charts? Ever see they discussed themself as astrologers as L1? Is it even necessary ? U can use L7 for the astrologer. Sometimes there are some strictures of judgements, for example Saturn in the 7th can mean maybe difficulties for the astrologer, that the astrologer casted the chart wrong or failed elsewhere. Or Neptune in the 1st house can show a querent,who is not able to Formulate a clear question or is confused or anxious. But these are just side hints. It is not necassary to put the astrologer in the chart.
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  #12  
Unread 09-24-2020, 04:53 PM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

Hmm yeah but Bonatti and Lilly never had the opportunity for real-time conversation, collaboration and clarification with a client on the other side of the world (nor the perusal of outer planets..) so there may be some questions their texts canít answer, even if we prefer to keep things as traditional as possible

However, if thereís no hard and fast rule.. I could be really wrong but Iím inclined to think that if we take the time and location of the astrologer, the astrologer should logically be set at the ascendant too
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  #13  
Unread 09-24-2020, 05:10 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux111 View Post
Hmm yeah but Bonatti and Lilly never had the opportunity for real-time conversation, collaboration and clarification with a client on the other side of the world (nor the perusal of outer planets..) so there may be some questions their texts canít answer, even if we prefer to keep things as traditional as possible

However, if thereís no hard and fast rule.. I could be really wrong but Iím inclined to think that if we take the time and location of the astrologer, the astrologer should logically be set at the ascendant too
If u want to reinvent horary- go with it! :-D especially, for what reason? Then u use querent as L7? ...you will always fail. I never heard that rule to use the astrologer as L1 and querent as L7. Only the other way around. Also vedic horary works with the same simple way.
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  #14  
Unread 09-24-2020, 05:33 PM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
If u want to reinvent horary- go with it! :-D especially, for what reason? Then u use querent as L7? ...you will always fail. I never heard that rule to use the astrologer as L1 and querent as L7. Only the other way around. Also vedic horary works with the same simple way.
Ok sure but reinvent whom? Show me a single source and Iíll go with it.. 🤷🏻*♀️

(And Iím not talking about Vedic)
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  #15  
Unread 09-24-2020, 07:36 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

the querent-the word say it, the one who ask the question,is always the asc. What source do u need? Frawley, as u mentioned, and who's knowledge is based on Lilly's, wrote it clear in his textbook.

Last edited by kalinka; 09-24-2020 at 07:40 PM.
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  #16  
Unread 09-24-2020, 09:39 PM
lux111 lux111 is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
the querent-the word say it, the one who ask the question,is always the asc. What source do u need? Frawley, as u mentioned, and who's knowledge is based on Lilly's, wrote it clear in his textbook.
Well maybe ElenaJ can respond as to her different view..

Yes Frawley talks about 7th house questions and says the person asking the question is L1...

But while says, for example "Your son's pet rabbit: your son is 5th, rabbit is 6th, 6th from 5th is 10th", in another example he talks about the neighbour's cat who had been coming over a bit, and when he asks where is is, it's L6, not 6th from the 3rd.

He also says "Your mother's friend's child: Your mother is 10th, her friend is 11th from the 10th = 8th. Her child is 5th from the 8th = 12th" which seems to show every degree of separation from the querent, although it doesn't suggest the astrologer is necessarily that querent..

Anyway...
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  #17  
Unread 09-24-2020, 10:43 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lux111 View Post
Well maybe ElenaJ can respond as to her different view..

Yes Frawley talks about 7th house questions and says the person asking the question is L1...

But while says, for example "Your son's pet rabbit: your son is 5th, rabbit is 6th, 6th from 5th is 10th", in another example he talks about the neighbour's cat who had been coming over a bit, and when he asks where is is, it's L6, not 6th from the 3rd.

He also says "Your mother's friend's child: Your mother is 10th, her friend is 11th from the 10th = 8th. Her child is 5th from the 8th = 12th" which seems to show every degree of separation from the querent, although it doesn't suggest the astrologer is necessarily that querent..

Anyway...
although it doesn't suggest the astrologer is necessarily that querent..
This is what we are talking about. The question is: who is the asc in the chart ? or which house to use for the querent? Asc is always querent! it does not matter if the querent is the astrologer themself or the querent ask someone else to cast a chart for them.

But while says, for example "Your son's pet rabbit: your son is 5th, rabbit is 6th, 6th from 5th is 10th", in another example he talks about the neighbour's cat who had been coming over a bit, and when he asks where is is, it's L6, not 6th from the 3rd.

He also says "Your mother's friend's child: Your mother is 10th, her friend is 11th from the 10th = 8th. Her child is 5th from the 8th = 12th" which seems to show every degree of separation from the querent,

Now you mess up the subjects. Here you are talking about which house to use for the quesited. To find that out we have to go from L1. neighbour is 3rd from Asc. Let's assume your logic would be right (in the case that the astrologer is L1 and querent is L7), then neighbour of the querent is the 9th house= 3rd of the 7th. Or mother of the querent would be 10th of 7th=4th house. And mother's friend would be 11th of the 10th of the 7th ...
Can't answer to your "l6 or 6th from 3rd" question because I can't find the passage in the book.

Last edited by kalinka; 09-24-2020 at 10:51 PM.
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  #18  
Unread 09-28-2020, 08:08 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lux111 View Post
Someone I've communicated with for a while online (never met before, just chat about tarot etc.) gave me a horary question about a celebrity. First of all, I considered her as L7, but should she be L11? She's not exactly a 'friend', but it's not a romantic connection.. I considered her like a client, so is she L7?

Then if she's asking about someone she doesn't know, but 'the other' again, would the celebrity (an actor) also be her L7?

In which case am I correct to read it with the actor's ascendant at the chart ascendant? Or..
So in reply to the original post, the one who asked the question about the celebrity should be Ascendent.
Lux 111 would be 7th if necessary, as the astrologer who interprets the chart.
And, the celebrity, an unknown, would also be 7th.
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  #19  
Unread 10-10-2020, 01:18 PM
JoZi15 JoZi15 is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

Iím trying to understand before I post my own Horary Question. I couldnít find a thread about asking about other people so I tried to derive the information from this thread. I get thee explanation provided here for a person who alls an astrologer a question.

I am asking if my son will go to college. Mine is different, correct?

I (the one who cast the chart, am asking if my son will go to college) am ASC. My son is the 5th House Ruler. And college is the 9th House Ruler from the 5th (which would be the ASC Ruler).

Is that right? Because I am asking the question of my son. My son did not ask me to ask the question.

In this situation, where would I post the chart - in travel + moving because those are sort of related to college (since heíd like to go away for college)? Or is it relational (a stretch, but technically he is related to me 🤷🏾*♀️

Thank you!!! Jozi 😍😍😍
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  #20  
Unread 10-10-2020, 06:51 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: How should I turn the chart here?

you have the significators exact... you querent are ascendent, your son is your 5th, his college the 9th from the 5th.

The categories are somewhat limited, but maybe career?
Perhaps a moderator can help on this.
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