Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Other Astrology > Astrological Parts

Astrological Parts A subforum dedicated to Arabic Parts, Hermetic Lots, and modern trans-saturnian Astrological Parts.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Unread 12-10-2014, 06:08 AM
piercethevale's Avatar
piercethevale piercethevale is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,801
Re: Parts derived from the April 2, 3 C.E. [A.D.] chart for Jesus{?}

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Venus View Post
I think i will think of a few threads first, to possibly get you to post, if you approve and are willing to do so, as you are right, having some material to showcase would strengthen my chances of being approved....

On another note, your posts regarding the categorization of sabians led me to thinkin....

The parts seem able to be categorized as well...

There are those that are actionary... Requiring an action or mode of expression from us.. The manifestation of our energy poured out...Such as the part of fortune, the part of spiritual service, the part of necessity, part of hidden identity & oration, part of nemesis, etc.

Then there are those that are reactionary... Innate talents and expressions that we are bestowed with, flowing to us from the universe via karmic influence... such as the part of soul, part of intuitive awareness of higher self, part of faith, etc. The karmic outer influences would fit into this category too such as the parts of destiny, catastrophe, and increase & benefits...

Then, there are those parts that seem to be the product of the other two categories... These are effectual.. How our actions, effected by our karmic influences, flow into society... Such as the part of trans of others minds, part of reverse noble acquaintances, part of psyche, part of tragedy... The recent part that we have been discussing, the higher octave of self sacrifice, seems to fit into this category as well,as it might deal with what we expect of society, and appeal towards...


There are some that seem to bridge the gap between the categories, such as the part of hidden identity & oration, which seems to represent an innate sense of being that can be activated towards influence of society.
I know what you're sensing and I used to think so too...but my Part of Fortune, I have found is totally Instinct and Emotionally governed. I have never had to really take any direct action to be the "loner"...it always worked out that way regardless...and more often that not, due to something emotional or instinctual that I did or reacted in that manner. Maybe a little bit of action at times, now that I'm remembering some events in my life years ago >>>

Man my date is a crazy ***** I gotta figure out someway to politely end this early and another so as to not have to ever go out on another one.


<<<Yeah, that's happened a couple of times in my life.

...hmmm?

well, having given it some more thought...

I'd say it depends on the part and symbolism and then the category of the triad, r.e. Actional, Instinctual, Rational {abrev. for brevity} that is the 'Trump" at this time... My neice's Part of Fortune is comj. my Sun and I just don't see that being an actional issue for her and I never saw it that way for my self as to my Sun, but the Sun is ego. Strange becase the 17th of Taurus iis in the Actional categoy but even the interpretation by Rudhyar notes that it is the "Great War of the Internal"...that purely Mental, there's no real physical battle or action. Some emotional too, but I just can't see that as Actional.

Now I'm really confused... Bur, I've also had a lon tiring day and I shouldn't have even attemped to answer this until I was bright eyed and ...u kno..

I think that you'll want to study a bit of Zoeller's book before you try to jump that far ahead and attempt to stick the landing.

...as I just realized that I had better review and read some of the chapters I should have more thoroughly and one or to that I never did

__________________
You Are A Divine Creation Of The Universe
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Unread 12-10-2014, 05:12 PM
Phoenix Venus's Avatar
Phoenix Venus Phoenix Venus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: via combusta
Posts: 3,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
I know what you're sensing and I used to think so too...but my Part of Fortune, I have found is totally Instinct and Emotionally governed. I have never had to really take any direct action to be the "loner"...it always worked out that way regardless...and more often that not, due to something emotional or instinctual that I did or reacted in that manner. Maybe a little bit of action at times, now that I'm remembering some events in my life years ago >>>

Man my date is a crazy ***** I gotta figure out someway to politely end this early and another so as to not have to ever go out on another one.


<<<Yeah, that's happened a couple of times in my life.

...hmmm?

well, having given it some more thought...

I'd say it depends on the part and symbolism and then the category of the triad, r.e. Actional, Instinctual, Rational {abrev. for brevity} that is the 'Trump" at this time... My neice's Part of Fortune is comj. my Sun and I just don't see that being an actional issue for her and I never saw it that way for my self as to my Sun, but the Sun is ego. Strange becase the 17th of Taurus iis in the Actional categoy but even the interpretation by Rudhyar notes that it is the "Great War of the Internal"...that purely Mental, there's no real physical battle or action. Some emotional too, but I just can't see that as Actional.

Now I'm really confused... Bur, I've also had a lon tiring day and I shouldn't have even attemped to answer this until I was bright eyed and ...u kno..

I think that you'll want to study a bit of Zoeller's book before you try to jump that far ahead and attempt to stick the landing.

...as I just realized that I had better review and read some of the chapters I should have more thoroughly and one or to that I never did
So are you saying that the part of fortune should not be interpreted the way we once were interpereting it....(an action that would most succesdfully bring about our spititusl wellneing...) And instead be given the interp of Christ Consciousness..?

My part of fortune at gemini 25 is in the "emotional" category but its all about pruning the mind..... Very "mentally" governed....

Mine definitely seems to be a state of mind that i need to employ to bring about a closer connection to Christ consciousness.... Maybe that comes easier for some than others....
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Unread 12-11-2014, 03:48 PM
piercethevale's Avatar
piercethevale piercethevale is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,801
Re: Parts derived from the April 2, 3 C.E. [A.D.] chart for Jesus{?}

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Venus View Post
So are you saying that the part of fortune should not be interpreted the way we once were interpereting it....(an action that would most succesdfully bring about our spititusl wellneing...) And instead be given the interp of Christ Consciousness..?

My part of fortune at gemini 25 is in the "emotional" category but its all about pruning the mind..... Very "mentally" governed....

Mine definitely seems to be a state of mind that i need to employ to bring about a closer connection to Christ consciousness.... Maybe that comes easier for some than others....
To be honest, I meant to delete that post last night a few moments after I had posted it but I was called away from my desk and then later on I thought that I had deleted it
My error...my bad.
I was going to get an ealier start today and mull all that over but didn't get the chance...more distractions as some issues arose with the landlard here.

Tonignt I've decided it would be best for me to reread the chapter in Rudhyars book in which he explains his concept of dividing the Zodiac with it's twelve signs and 360 degrees and why he titled those divisions as he did.
I'll get to that in the next few days. With the Holidays rushing in on me as fast as they are I've got lot to do before the end of the year and a few things that must be accomplished before the end of this week.

For the time being let's, just see if we can, agree to the following explanation.
(In the following explanation please note that the term, "Astrological Part", refers to all Parts or Lots of any kind, i.e. Arabic, Trans-Saturnian or Hermetic.)
The Astrological Parts have been discovered to be "Symbolically Active", but that is only by the set of degree symbols known as the Sabian Symbols. The degree an Astrological Part, or Lot, is particularly found to be in will have an effect on you as to the affairs pertaining to that which the Part is titled as being in governance of.

If the Part, or Lot, is of a benificient nature and you desire the influence of all affairs associated with that particular Parts' title you must then, deploy yourself accordinly in a way that is harmonious to those affairs or, employ them through, or into your daily activites that are in relation to the same.

If the Part, or Lots', title is associated with affairs that you find to be maleific in their nature to you, then you must avoid, deploying yourself in any manner of way by in the make-up of your being or, employing it by any means of activity, that by which, you possibly could actually employ it in.

..and if it is the Part Catastrophe that is your concern, remember that it has been consistently shoing itself to be of affect on ones life regardless of what you may or may not do to avoid it...but also remember that being forewarned is to be forearmed and your goal then is to mitigate the circumstances concerning to the affairs governed by the Part to "soften the blow".
For example; as my Part of Catastrophe is in the 17th degree of Capricorn , and by Rudhyar's interpretation is, [ibid.]
"A REPRESSED WOMAN FINDS A PSYCHOLOGICAL RELEASE IN NUDISM.
KEYNOTE: The escape from bondage to social inhibitions and a reliance upon the wisdom of the body." {and his summation is} " RELEASE FROM INHIBITIONS", then I should best retain some degree of social inhibiton in my activites and if even let myself be completely inhibited if the consequences are severe for even the slightest regression.

If some finds that the 17th degree of Capricorn is their Part of Fortune or their Part of Sudden Advancement, then one should procede in the exact opposite as to that which is prescribed for myself in the paragraph above.
Those divisions in his concept are mostly terminology one finds associated with any "Play" of the kind that is performed on stage.
__________________________________________________ _

Heres an outline I assembled from the text of Dane Rudhyar's book on the Saian symbols, "An Astrological Mandala" of how Dane visualized the categorical breakdown of the Zodiac. It may help to find the degree of the Zodiac the Astrological Part of concern is found to be in and use that as a guide in applying or avoiding the affect of the Part

First off, Dane divided the Zodiac into two "Hemi-cycles", just as like the manner he saw the full monthly cyle of the Moon as being primarily composed of two half cycles.

Then of the full cycle He has it divided into four "Acts". Two Acts to each Hemi-cycle.

Each Act is comprised of three adjoining Signs.

Eact Sign is then divided into two "Scenes". The first fifteen degrees of each sign is one Scene and the second fifteen degrees is the next Scene.

Each Scene of fifteen degrees He divided into three "Levels" comprised of five degrees each.

The first level He labled as "Actional", the second Level, "Emotional-Cultural"
and the third Level as "Individual-Mental" and are always in that order and repreat in every "Scene" in the same order.

The first Hemicycle are the six signs of Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo and Virgo and the second Hemi-cycle contunues on with Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces.

Act 1 is comprised of the Signs Aries, Taurus and Gemini
Act 2 is comprised of the Signs Cancer, Leo and Virgo
Act 3 is comprised of the Signs Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius
Act 4 is comprised of the Signs Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces

Aries consists of Scene 1 & 2
Taurus consists of Scene 3 & 4
Gemini consists of Scene 5 & 6
Cancer consists of Scene 7 & 8
Leo consists of Scene 9 & 10
Virgo consists of Scene 11 & 12
Libra consists of Scene 13 & 14
Scorpio consists of Scene 15 & 16
Sagittarius consists of Scene 17 & 18
Capricorn consists of Scene 19 & 20
Aquarius consists of Scene 21 & 22
Pisces consists of Scene 23 & 24

And remember that every Scene of 15° is comprised of three Levels
1. "Actional"
2. "Emotional-Cultural"
3. "Individual-Mental"
and are always in that order and repreat in every "Scene" in the same order.

First Hemi-cycle: "THE PROCESS OF INDIVIDUALIZATION"
ACT 1: DIFFERENTIATION
ARIES
SCENE ONE: DESIRE
SCENE TWO: POTENCY
TAURUS
SCENE THREE: SUBSTANTIATION
SCENE FOUR: CONFIRMATION
GEMINI
SCENE FIVE: DISCOVERY
SCENE SIX: EXTERIORIZATION
ACT II: STABILIZATION
CANCER
SCENE SEVEN: DECISION
SCENE EIGHT: CONSOLIDATION
LEO
SCENE NINE: COMBUSTION
SCENE TEN: RELEASE
VIRGO
SCENE ELEVEN: CHARACTERIZATION
SCENE TWELVE: EDUCATION
Second Hemi-cycle: "THE PROCESS OF COLLECTIVIZATION"
ACT III: GROUP-INTEGRATION
LIBRA
SCENE THIRTEEN: TRANSFIGURATION
SCENE FOURTEEN: RECONSTRUCTION
SCORPIO
SCENE FIFTEEN: COMMUNION
SCENE SIXTEEN: FAITH
SAGITTARIUS
SCENE SEVENTEEN: ABSTRACTION
SCENE EIGHTEEN: TRANSFERENCE
ACT IV - CAPITALIZATION
CAPRICORN
SCENE NINETEEN: CRYSTALLIZATION
SCENE TWENTY: GROUP-PERFORMANCE
AQUARIUS
SCENE TWENTY-ONE: CONTRIBUTION
SCENE TWENTY-TWO: MANAGEMENT
PISCES
SCENE TWENTY-THREE: FEDERATION
SCENE TWENTY-FOUR: PERPETUATION
__

In fact, that doesn't look too bad just as it is, Phoenix Venus, if you should happen to agree maybe I should post that, as the definitive, in the thread on applying the Sabain Symbolism to Astrological Parts... or if you think it'll work if you tweek it here or there, then please feel free to do so.
__________________
You Are A Divine Creation Of The Universe

Last edited by piercethevale; 12-11-2014 at 04:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Unread 12-17-2014, 04:30 AM
piercethevale's Avatar
piercethevale piercethevale is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,801
Re: Parts derived from the April 2, 3 C.E. [A.D.] chart for Jesus{?}

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Venus View Post
So are you saying that the part of fortune should not be interpreted the way we once were interpereting it....(an action that would most succesdfully bring about our spititusl wellneing...) And instead be given the interp of Christ Consciousness..?

My part of fortune at gemini 25 is in the "emotional" category but its all about pruning the mind..... Very "mentally" governed....

Mine definitely seems to be a state of mind that i need to employ to bring about a closer connection to Christ consciousness.... Maybe that comes easier for some than others....
I'm sorry I didn't get back to this thread and your question sooner, Phoenix. I've been studying this since 4 am this morning and it is just now past 9 pm...and I've been casting a lot of composite charts using the triad of Hyleg Moon events we've been noodling with. I got some mind blowing results that I'm about to post in the other thread. So, I would've got back to this asap, but to be honest, first off, I got so caught up in reading up on the Hyleg of a chart, not the Pars Hyleg {or Part of Hyleg} but rather about the matter of the Hyleg planet.
The word Hyleg means "giver of life", so what the Part of Hyleg is, is the Part that "gives life" to all the other parts. So I was correct, it is as like I wrote, it is that from which all the others "sprout from"...it is the root that gives them life and they cannot exist without it. Yet as it is the root of life of all the Astrological Parts in the natal chart and being thus, just as Zoeller wrote, it can exist on it's own...it doesn't need the others to do so.
I found some excellent online Astrological encyclopedias: Here's some links, {the first I found to be probably the most well written, at least so far}
Nicholas deVore, "Encyclopedia of Astrology"
http://zaytsev.com/Devore/main.html
This one is helpful, it is the Astrology India website glossary:
http://www.vedic-astrology-prediction.com/astrology-glossary.html

This one looks to be quite huge and seems that it attempts to be both encyclopedia, dictionary and hand book. I didn't have the time to really explore it or check it for accuracy as to comparing it what I know to be accurate, what is questionable, and so on, but neither could I do much of that with those above either, I just never had the time. But they appear to be of, if not entirely accurate knowledge, they certainly seem to be from most earnest and sincere origins... and the websites appear to be very reputable as they have apparently stood some test of a respectable measure of time. I did compare a number of things to my own ref. books. My very first book on astrology, given to me by my brother, "The Astrologers Handbook", by Sakoian and Acker, along with a great tome,"The Astrology Encyclopedia" by James R. Lewis and "The A to Z Horoscope Maker and Delineator", by Llewellyn George...which is over one hundred years old but I like it to refer to old time "traditional" techniques, beliefs and etc. a lot of which modernist astrologers have tossed aside yet any source of astrological "knowledge", or forms of technique, should be considered on your own judgment of value for your own behalf, and not on the opinions of others, just as like any subject should be a matter of your own decisions based on whatever means you employ to arrive at such decisions. And of course, the more thorough the better. In fact half grasped, don't cut it. imho. But if you trust the source implicitly that weighed their evidence of research and test results then that's another matter. Just as I trust the readings of Edgar Cayce implicitly.

http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/index_astrology.html

P.S. Here's another website that has the Nicholas deVore "Encyclopedia of Astrology"
http://www.cornerstone-astrology.com...edia.php?let=A
__________________
You Are A Divine Creation Of The Universe

Last edited by piercethevale; 12-17-2014 at 08:06 AM. Reason: spelling, grammatical errors, clarity and a P.S.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Unread 12-17-2014, 07:17 AM
piercethevale's Avatar
piercethevale piercethevale is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,801
Re: Parts derived from the April 2, 3 C.E. [A.D.] chart for Jesus{?}

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Venus View Post
So are you saying that the part of fortune should not be interpreted the way we once were interpereting it....(an action that would most succesdfully bring about our spititusl wellneing...) And instead be given the interp of Christ Consciousness..?

My part of fortune at gemini 25 is in the "emotional" category but its all about pruning the mind..... Very "mentally" governed....

Mine definitely seems to be a state of mind that i need to employ to bring about a closer connection to Christ consciousness.... Maybe that comes easier for some than others....
But, in answer to your question...
Yes! I do still say that we are interpreting it correctly but I'm just having my usual crisis struggling with semantics.
I just want to state it in a way that allows the most people the ability to easily grasp the concept and employ it.

Some of the Sabian Symbols are so abstract that if I found one of them to be my Part of Fortune, quite honestly, right now I would be at a loss as to what I am supposed to do to employ, utilize, or embody the precept. As for an example. Take the composite Part of Sudden Advancement {aka Hermetic Lot of Nemesis} that I share with the Yeshu'a chart, as the Part of Sudden Advancement is so much as like the Part of Fortune... Although it is a most challenging way of fortuitous progress towards spiritual evolution... leading to the "transformation" that is the goal.... and so much so... that it is the "Nemesis" that challenges you to best it!
It is at 00* Leo 12', that is to say in the 1st degree of Leo. [ibid.]

"LEO 01*
BLOOD RUSHES TO A MAN’S HEAD AS HIS VITAL ENERGIES ARE MOBILIZED UNDER THE SPUR OF AMBITION.

KEYNOTE
: An irruption of bio-psychic energies into the ego-controlled field of consciousness.

The occult tradition speaks of three kinds of 'Fire': Electric fire, Solar Fire and Fire by friction. The three Fire signs of the Zodiac correspond to these. Aries refers to the ‘descent’ of the spiritual energy of the Creative Word. In its material aspect we know this energy as electricity, and without electrical energy no life processes could exist. Leo represents Solar Fire, the energy which is released from an integrated person, either through spontaneous radiations of apparently nuclear forms of energy, or, at the truly human and conscious level (and also superhuman in more transcendent realms), through conscious emanations (e-mana-tions, from manas meaning ‘mind’ in Sanskrit. Sagittarius is related to the fire by friction, because all social processes are based on interpersonal relations, which imply polarization and often conflict.

The key symbol for Leo depicts a rising of energy from the heart to the head, a ‘mentalization’ process. However, this process is a potentially dangerous one. Thus the original wording of the symbolic scene seen by the clairvoyant referred to ‘a case of apoplexy’ just as a person standing with their head uncovered for a long time in tropical regions could get sunstroke. The sun can destroy as well as vivify. Without it’s symbolical mate, water, it produces deserts on earth. The realization of atman, the spiritual self, the existence of a formed and steady ego provided the ego can become a lens of pure crystal focusing the all-pervasive cosmic light of the Brahman without introducing the shadows of pride possessiveness and showmanship. But this ‘provided’ raises a very large question. The transmutation of ‘life’ into ‘mind’ is a difficult process.

This is the first stage of the twenty-fifth five-fold sequence of symbols which opens the ninth Scene. The keynote of ‘Combustion’ for the entire series of fifteen phases hardly needs interpretation. In a general sense the key word for this first degree of the sign Leo could be
CONFLAGRATION
. The energies of the biological drives as they irrupt, more or less forcefully, into the field of consciousness."


Although, having just really confronting myself with this question for the first time in earnest, I believe that finally this Sabian Symbol for the first degree of Leo, which has been from the beginning, the very first time I encountered it, a "nemesis" on its' own... being as that as I have always been so, very much, challenged by verbal and reading comprehension, and it being such an enigmatically ambiguous symbol that I have found it to be the most challenging of all the Sabians to understand... I now may have seen a possible means of employing it, Only because I was able to focus on, what I find to be the "the key phrase" in Rudhyar's text: "provided the ego can become a lens of pure crystal focusing the all-pervasive cosmic light of the Brahman without introducing the shadows of pride possessiveness and showmanship."

I must only look to my Quaker upbringing, and to my present yogic path as a sisya of the Bij, and need only to employ a mantra, and as a mantra the following affirmation:
"Lord, let me be the instrument of thy will and may your eternal Light and Word be my only guide"
__________________
You Are A Divine Creation Of The Universe

Last edited by piercethevale; 12-17-2014 at 07:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Unread 08-27-2019, 10:21 PM
piercethevale's Avatar
piercethevale piercethevale is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,801
Re: Parts derived from the April 2, 3 C.E. [A.D.] chart for Jesus{?}

I corrected the placement of the Part of Noble & Illustrious Acquaintances [those that He deemed as such] to the sign of Leo and not Libra.
I don't know how that one got by me and remained for as long as it did as for the reason it is the same sign and degree as my natal M.C. and Part of Fortune...i.e. the 25th degree of Leo.
__________________
You Are A Divine Creation Of The Universe
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Unread 08-28-2019, 04:19 AM
piercethevale's Avatar
piercethevale piercethevale is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,801
Re: Parts derived from the April 2, 3 C.E. [A.D.] chart for Jesus{?}

Greetings, I added the three additional Hyleg like Parts that We believe have revealed themselves to be as essential, or nearly so, as the formula given for the "Traditional Part of Hyleg... for more on that and as to why ...please see my thread titled "The King of Parts, the Part of Hyleg" at this link https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...ad.php?t=85891

Also, please note, that I long ago determined that the correct birth time is likely 15 to 20 seconds before 5:23 p.m. that day and that would reduce all the Parts by about 2' 30" to 3' 30" and the Asc. would be less about that much. When I first cast this chart in November of 2004 Astrodienst only accepted whole minutes in the data to cast a chart.

Also, the three additional Hyleg like Parts are using recently cast charts for the pre natal and post natal Moons and they aren't in sync with the original data and I trust the "original" data...but I believe they came out close enough or at least in the correct degree at least... the minutes and seconds of those degrees would likely be a bit less or more...depending which way astrodienst "tweaked" the results.... Someday that will all be straightened out, I'm rather optimistic that God will see to that it gets done.
__________________
You Are A Divine Creation Of The Universe

Last edited by piercethevale; 08-28-2019 at 04:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Unread 04-17-2021, 08:42 AM
piercethevale's Avatar
piercethevale piercethevale is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,801
Re: Parts derived from the April 2, 3 C.E. [A.D.] chart for Jesus{?}

Please note that I added some addendum to the list of Parts in this thread of which all are dated today, April 22, 2021 and in red text.

The reason for this action of mine is that I have finally made a long overdue determination that the actual birth couldn't have possibly been any earlier than 5:22:49 P.M. on that day. I am presently rather convinced that it did occur between 5:22:49 and 5:22:54 P.M. This rectification causes at least one listed Part to have actually been in the previous degree and more likely there probably were two, yet there may have been a third, as well.
__________________
You Are A Divine Creation Of The Universe

Last edited by piercethevale; 04-24-2021 at 10:54 PM. Reason: corrected 5:23:56 to 5:22:54
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
april, chart, derived, jesus, parts

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.