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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #51  
Unread 07-16-2020, 08:09 PM
Keira Keira is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
I casted a birth time rectification chart with the methods of Kp. He could only be born under the Daylord Sun. This means that we can delimit the time frame from 0.00am til 5.40am. Further, the sign of one of the Ruling Planets, which are Ve, Su, Ma, Me, Ra, will rising in the Asc. Hence it could only be Sidereal Aries (from 0.20am), Taurus or Gemini. So he was born between 0.20-5.40am. By considering the Nakshatra lord of the Asc we can again delimit the time into 2 possible spans: Either between 0.52 and 02.10 am or from 03.05 til 4.55 am. These are the first steps and could help you further to find out his birth time via birth rectifaction (or other methods), if you are serious interested in it. good luck
Hi Kalinka!
I send you a private message here!

Keira

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  #52  
Unread 07-17-2020, 11:45 AM
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mania View Post

If we speak about suicide tendencies

then obviously
there should be formula 8-1

(for example lord of 8 in the 1st house)
then obviously

for example

vast majority of Lord 8 in 1st House have no such tendencies



.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #53  
Unread 07-17-2020, 09:01 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

More chart examples...

Sylvia Plath, writer, suffered from severe depression for most of her life.
She made several attempts at suicide, including car wrecks, until finally she gassed herself to death by putting her head in the oven. (Sorry for the grim details, but they may help with the interpretation).She was 30 years old.
There was some speculation at the time that it was in reality a cry for help, although the authorities declared it was a very intentional deed.
Her two children were asleep when she did this.
Her daughter is a writer, however her son also was a suicide and I'm posting his chart as well, not only to evaluate it on its own, but for possible connections with his mother's chart.
In Sylvia Plath's chart we see a repeat of a pattern from Hemingway.
Her 12th house ruler is saturn, which is found on the cusp of the 12th house.
The 8th house ruler is venus, in the 7th house, in trine with saturn.
Intercepted in the ascendent is pisces, co-ruled by neptune and jupiter, both in virgo, the sign opposing their natural position, in the 7th house, and conjunct south node.
The ascendent is at the 29th degree of aquarius.
Co-ruler of the ascendent, uranus, is near the 2nd house cusp of self esteem, squaring saturn on the cusp of self undoing.
Sun in scorpio rules the 7th but is mostly contained in the 6th house, and is in a wide square with saturn from the 8th house.
There is reference in her biography of a miscarriage, which occured a few days after being beaten by her husband. With the numerous contacts involving the 7th house, one wonders how much of an influence he might have had on her tendency towards self undoing.
Moon in 7th in libra, sign of partnership and marriage, lies on the midpoint of sun/neptune, reflecting her emotional instability. Neptune rules gas.
Jupiter and Neptune co- rulers of pisces, (intercepted in the ascendent), are with 8th ruler and South node in the 7th.
South Node in 7th conjunct the cluster of Venus/jupiter/neptune, makes one wonder if this was a Karmic death.

Moving on to her son's chart, we find the ascendent in libra, with his mother’s moon just in his 12 house.
Keeping in mind that he awoke as a small child to find his mother dead, this trauma evidently weighed heavily on his subconscious.
Ascendent is ruled by venus, as is the 8th house, and it is located in the 4th of the mother (house of the mother as nurturer and domestic foundation).
Venus in capricorn is not a warm loving position, and it is exactly inconjunct moon in the 9th.
Venus is also conjunct sun, mars, and saturn, so quite active, and quite a lot of energy in the house of his mother.
Mercury rules the 12h house, and is exactly conjunct jupiter in the 4th. Again, more emphasis on the contact with the mother. The mercury/jupiter conjunction is almost exactly conjunct south node, again an idea of karma.
The mercury/jupiter conjunction squares neptune, near the cusp of the 2nd house of self esteem.
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Last edited by ElenaJ; 07-20-2020 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Incorrect chart reference was used.
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  #54  
Unread 07-18-2020, 12:46 AM
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
...In Sylvia Plath's chart we see a repeat of a pattern from Hemingway. Her 12th house ruler is mars, which is found in the ascendent.
The 8th house ruler is saturn, also in the 12th house, and near conjunction with Neptune (gas).
Her mercury, ascendent ruler in the 10th of career (she was a writer), is square Neptune in the 12th. Mercury is also square Jupiter, which normally shouldn't bring on depression, but Jupiter is exactly conjunct Chiron.
Mercury is also inconjunct Uranus, perhaps this explains the failed attempts at car accident deaths? Uranus exactly trines Jupiter, lucky outcome.
Sun exactly squares saturn. Sun sits exactly on the MH (therefore opposing the IC) and rules the IC, house of endings.
I am very confused as to which chart you are looking at? Sylvia Plath had an Aquarius Asc. and her 12th house ruler is Saturn. Her Asc. is in Aquarius, so Merc. cannot be its ruler. At best Uranus if one doesn't like to go by trad. rulers.

Quote:
Moving on to her son's chart, we see ascendent at the 29th degree of Aquarius, with saturn ruler in the 12th, which seems to be a recurring pattern. Sun squares saturn, slightly wide at an 8 degree orb, reflecting his mother's natal aspect, at the root of depression.
Her son's Asc. is in Libra, at 15*, and Venus is in Cap. His 12th house ruler is Merc., which is in Aquarius actually.

Not sure you were looking at the correct charts.
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  #55  
Unread 07-18-2020, 01:09 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

You're right. I opened Vrginia Wolf's chart by error, that was on my desktop!
I'll rework my post.
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  #56  
Unread 07-20-2020, 03:46 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

Sorry for the confusion, I have now re-written the post based on the correct chart.
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  #57  
Unread 07-25-2020, 08:36 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

Am I the only one fascinated by this thread?

One more chart, Marilyn Monroe, in theory a suicide, by overdose of pills.

Here we have 8th house ruler Neptune conjunct the ascendent.
Neptune opposes the 12th house ruler, moon, in the 7th of marriage/relationships. Conjunct moon is jupiter , co-ruler of the 8th.
Both Neptune and moon/jupiter square Saturn, ruler of the 7th, in the 4th of endings.
Neptune is drugs, she apparently took an overdose.
The involvement of the 7th house could point to the reason for her action, her difficulties with her partner at the time of her suicide.
In the 8th house we find mars, inconjunct the ascendent Neptune, and ruling the 4th of endings.
This is all so closely intertwined that it almost seems she could not have died any other way.
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  #58  
Unread 07-26-2020, 08:48 AM
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Am I the only one fascinated by this thread?

One more chart, Marilyn Monroe, in theory a suicide, by overdose of pills.

Here we have 8th house ruler Neptune conjunct the ascendent.
Neptune opposes the 12th house ruler, moon, in the 7th of marriage/relationships. Conjunct moon is jupiter , co-ruler of the 8th.
Both Neptune and moon/jupiter square Saturn, ruler of the 7th, in the 4th of endings.
Neptune is drugs, she apparently took an overdose.
The involvement of the 7th house could point to the reason for her action, her difficulties with her partner at the time of her suicide.
In the 8th house we find mars, inconjunct the ascendent Neptune, and ruling the 4th of endings.
This is all so closely intertwined that it almost seems she could not have died any other way.
Time of birth is not necessarily reliable
thus not possible to draw reliable delineation

There are questions about a mysterious bruise
and the lack of evidence
and political motives
mounted so heavily that
the investigation was reopened in 1982.
most agree death was by a fatal injection
— supported by the lack of pill capsules in her body

and

a small, mysterious bruise on her lower body
that was never explained.
also her will and an untold amount of mysterious documents
were stuffed into shopping bags
and removed by her business manager Inez Melson
within 48 hours of Monroe’s death.
This was all done while the police were taking statements.
.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #59  
Unread 07-26-2020, 09:12 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

Neptune would also be a fatal injection.
If this was not suicide, but murder, how do you delineate the chart? What is the significator for murder? Or violence. (bruises on her body).
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  #60  
Unread 07-26-2020, 09:41 AM
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post

Neptune would also be a fatal injection.
If this was not suicide, but murder, how do you delineate the chart?


What is the significator for murder? Or violence. (bruises on her body).

astrologers all have their own personal interpretations
of this famous person chart
such as for example at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-LKP4jvsWU

where discussion is whether murdered


.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #61  
Unread 07-26-2020, 12:19 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

I've seen some of his videos, he uses Vedic charts that I am not familiar with.
The chart he refers to for Monroe has a cancer rising, but the majority seem to agree on a Leo rising, which actually seems to make more sense.
The chart I posted for her is from astro.com
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  #62  
Unread 07-26-2020, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Time of birth is not necessarily reliable
thus not possible to draw reliable delineation

There are questions about a mysterious bruise
and the lack of evidence
and political motives
mounted so heavily that
the investigation was reopened in 1982.
most agree death was by a fatal injection
— supported by the lack of pill capsules in her body

and

a small, mysterious bruise on her lower body
that was never explained.
also her will and an untold amount of mysterious documents
were stuffed into shopping bags
and removed by her business manager Inez Melson
within 48 hours of Monroe’s death.
This was all done while the police were taking statements.
.
The time of 9:30 is taken from her birth certificate. I have never heard of Marilyn’s chart being disputed.
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  #63  
Unread 07-26-2020, 01:30 PM
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

If I may direct you to a horary I did asking if Marilyn killed herself, you can see it was a suicide but she probably did not intend to die. Verdict: accidental overdose.

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1048313#post1048313
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  #64  
Unread 07-26-2020, 01:31 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

In fact, but if you check the chart he evaluates in the link Jupiterasc sent, he puts the ascendent at cancer, not leo.
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  #65  
Unread 07-26-2020, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
In fact, but if you check the chart he evaluates in the link Jupiterasc sent, he puts the ascendent at cancer, not leo.
Is that because it is sidereal?
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  #66  
Unread 07-26-2020, 01:39 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
If I may direct you to a horary I did asking if Marilyn killed herself, you can see it was a suicide but she probably did not intend to die. Verdict: accidental overdose.

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...13#post1048313
Using the 7th for her gives pisces and Neptune, which has a certain logic to it.
Her 8th would be mercury, but it makes no aspects.
Mars in on the cusp of the 4th of endings, and moon just separates from a sextile.
Moon also separates from a conjunction with Pluto, co-ruler of the 4th.
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  #67  
Unread 07-26-2020, 01:40 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Is that because it is sidereal?
He used a Vedic chart.
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  #68  
Unread 07-26-2020, 03:04 PM
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Is that because it is sidereal?
Yes, sidereal, due to Jyotish Astrology
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  #69  
Unread 07-26-2020, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
He used a Vedic chart.
I thought Vedic was sidereal. There is usually a difference of a sign or two when changing over.
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  #70  
Unread 07-26-2020, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
Yes, sidereal, due to Jyotish Astrology
That’s what I thought.
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  #71  
Unread 07-26-2020, 04:05 PM
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Re: Suicide in the birth chart?

Hi,

If we look at MM's natal chart, her 8th house ruler, Jupiter (which on the downside always shows overdoing something- overdose here) is conj. Moon, which rules the 12th (drugs, esp. due to isolation and depression). Jup is ruled by Sat. - which shows something chronic and lethal. This Saturn is in a square to the Moon and Jup.
Moon and Jup trine the Sun (her Asc.) showing a proclivity to it. Mars conj. Ura shows it could be accidental leading to death.
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