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  #1  
Unread 10-20-2006, 09:16 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Pluto and Emotional Trauma

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Unread 10-21-2006, 07:43 PM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

"""""Pluto in the Sixth House or Virgo: emotional trauma can occur to these individuals for the following causes:

1. When life conditions occur in which the individual experiences an intense lack of meaning, or when their life conditions become meaningless. This sense of lack, of an existential void, generates a total state of crisis. This crisis is one of feeling totally displaced on an environmental basis, and a sense of acute inner aloneness in which they can feel victimized by the life conditions that they are experiencing.

2. When life conditions occur in which the individual feels intense persecution or criticism of an unjust nature. Not being able to understand why these conditions are contracted generates the trauma.
When Pluto transits the Sixth House, forms stressful aspects to Mercury, or to the planetary ruler of the Sixth House, or to planets in the natal Sixth House these issues and subsequent traumas can occur.""""(quote)


""""Pluto in the Eighth House or Scorpio: emotional trauma can occur to these individuals for the following causes:

1. When life conditions are created in which they experience severe and intense betrayal, and violations of trust.
2. When they experience being intensely used and manipulated by other(s).
3. When they experience intense sexual violations and misuse of such energy.
4. When they experience intense loss of those that are closest to them.
5. When life conditions are created in which they are forced to examine their own motives, intentions, and emotional agendas. This examination, at some point, will uncover the subtle and not so subtle ways in which they have manipulated others or situations in order to gain something that they need or want. The light of emotional honesty creates a cruel glare that exposes the inner lies that they create for themselves and others.
When Pluto transits the Eight House, forms stressful aspects to Mars and/or Pluto through transits, to the planetary ruler of the Eight House, or to planets within the natal Eight House it can generate these issues and subsequent traumas.""""(quote)


I have Pluto in Virgo in the 8th house (conjunct Uranus by 1 *). I have all had all of these things happen to me, and I am still traumatized by the majority of it. I realized while reading this that I am living in a state of crisis, and have been for years. I have post-traumatic stress syndrome, yet still living in it, so it can't really be dealt with. Key word being "post". If I'm still in the trauma, how can I ever heal until I get out of it????? I desperately need a qualified therapist, but have no finances or insurance to pay for one. Even more so, I need a support group that will help me out of the hole, instead of push me back in every time I try to climb out.

By the way, the Pluto in Virgo in the 8th, conjunct Uranus opposes my Saturn and Chiron in Pisces in 2nd. (The opposition from hell.)
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Unread 10-23-2006, 09:13 AM
Manic_Monday Manic_Monday is offline
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Does Pluto symbolise what you fear the most? If not, what planet does? Neptune?
I'm sorry for asking this here, but I didn't want to open a new thread for such a small question
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Unread 11-16-2006, 03:35 AM
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Smile Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Hi - Noticed you mentioned you had an article on Pluto and trauma. Could you email to me?

Tell me a bit about yourself also, if you like. I'm really palmist. Maybe I could look at your scanned palm.

Cheers - Brenda:cheers:
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Unread 11-16-2006, 03:57 AM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Interesting .. I have pluto in virgo in the 12th house. I struggle all the time trying to find meaning and with it saying in the 12th house about losing the will to live; the first time I tried to kill myself was age 10..and have struggled with the urge to give up versus the part of me that can't wait to see what tomorrow brings. So very interesting points on Pluto.
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Unread 01-25-2007, 05:29 PM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

If truama not resolved what happens?
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Unread 01-26-2007, 05:18 PM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Most intersting and thank you for sharing...

I have Pluto in 1st house...and let me tell you... balancing independence and relationships is definately a challenge... and there are times when I feel like chucking it all in... then I stop, think and get out to myself....
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Unread 03-07-2007, 05:36 AM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

I also have Pluto in the first, plus moon in the 11th.. so I really need time for myself.. but sometimes I also can experience a out of place kind of feeling when I'm amongst a group of people (that I don't really give a thing about).. I tend to loose my focus if the people around me are not my good friends..
But I need to be with someone who understands me, and yet I can feel trapped by relationship.. so what should be done then..
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Unread 03-07-2007, 09:09 AM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Pluto in the Third House or Gemini: emotional trauma can occur for the following causes:

1. When the water tight intellectual constructions that define not only these individuals' sense of reality in general, but also the very core of their emotional security which is based on their intellectual constructions, becomes unraveled through intense, cataclysmic life experiences. The nature of these cataclysmic events forces them to change their way of thinking, of how they have understood the nature of things.

2. Emotional trauma can also occur when these people experience intense intellectual confrontations with others that poke holes in the water bags in such a way that they have no choice but to question their underlying assumptions about the nature of reality. Once the underlying assumptions are questioned and changed, the rest of their complex intellectual network also falls and changes. The emotional trauma is defined by a core instability and insecurity because of the need to change the nature of their intellectual framework, and how they communicate their ideas and opinions. The period of insecurity or trauma is defined by the amount of time it takes for these individuals to evolve into new ways of understanding.

When Pluto transits the Third House, forms stressful aspects through transit to natal Mercury, or to the planetary ruler of the Third House, or to planets in the natal Third House these issues can be generated with the subsequent trauma.

I'm mentally very flexible and adaptable... so making changes in my way of thinking never felt traumatic to me...

Pluto in the Eighth House or Scorpio: emotional trauma can occur to these individuals for the following causes:

1. When life conditions are created in which they experience severe and intense betrayal, and violations of trust.
2. When they experience being intensely used and manipulated by other(s).
3. When they experience intense sexual violations and misuse of such energy.
4. When they experience intense loss of those that are closest to them.
5. When life conditions are created in which they are forced to examine their own motives, intentions, and emotional agendas. This examination, at some point, will uncover the subtle and not so subtle ways in which they have manipulated others or situations in order to gain something that they need or want. The light of emotional honesty creates a cruel glare that exposes the inner lies that they create for themselves and others.

When Pluto transits the Eight House, forms stressful aspects to Mars and/or Pluto through transits, to the planetary ruler of the Eight House, or to planets within the natal Eight House it can generate these issues and subsequent traumas.

I experienced betrayal, i lied and cheated in the past (but I was younger), it never came out, but may be cause i didn't continue the lie, i stopped the relation i was having, a few days after I cheated on her... I didn't want to manipulate or lie, although i wasn't honest about the reason of our break up...
Although I believe ppl aren't made to be monogamous, I became more prudent in relations since then and having a fear of relations... My belief in ppl not being monogamous doesn't give me the right to chase every skirt in town and i'm far from promiscouos (by my own standards)...
So may be the trauma here is having a fear of relations for the moment, knowing how I can be, knowing how I can be played by the other, and that paralyses my lust for relational contact... But one night stands don't do it anymore for me...
Oh well, may be I should learn to amuse myself and letting go of all these fears... And every experience is a good experience...

May be it helps that Pluto only makes a trine to the Sun, he is good aspected (if you don't count the 45° to Uranus and the quincunx to the MC)... So I'm not a very traumatized soul... I try to look at life positively and sometimes it helps...
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Unread 03-21-2007, 01:49 PM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiequix
Personally, I find that there is just something that's not quite right about Jeff Green's logic. Just recently I was reading some advice on where to find reliable information on subjects like karma and fate, and Jeff Green was specifically cited as someone whose interpretations were not to be trusted. ....I'm not trying to be nasty or argumentative or anything like that, I just wanted to share my perspective on the matter.
I don't see how you are nasty with sharing us that information...
But whether an author is cited as (un)reliable, i think we should have an open mind and think our own thoughts about what an author says, and not believing it without to think for yourself...

BMG
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Unread 03-21-2007, 03:08 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

I have also read a review on a site which said his book on Pluto never really fitted in with their experience, they never really connected to what Jeff Green had said on Pluto and advised people not to buy the book. I don't have any of his books so I can't really judge. I have thought of buying his book but have been unsure so if anyone has his book could you let me know if it is worthwhile buying or not.
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Unread 03-21-2007, 09:05 PM
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The Dark Side, to Ray

Ray,

Jeff Green gets into The Dark Side of Pluto...and I mean the REALLY Dark Side. Beatings, abuse, murders, it's all in there in his Pluto book (Volume 1). Not for the nervous, this book gets at all of those Pluto things most people don't talk about. So the book is useful for understanding what Pluto problems REALLY are...whether or not we personally have experienced the dark side of Pluto or not.

However, since he DOES focus on the "dark side" his overall interpretations can be VERY dark and disturbing (such as the "mental trauma" discussions he has). It's useful to think of his discussions as about "archetypal" energy (energies which symbolize something we all understand), which helps us better relate to the sometimes horrific descriptions he has.

Archetypically,

Tim
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Unread 03-22-2007, 04:08 PM
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Other books, to Ray

Ray,

Here are some other books you might be interested in:
http://www.geocities.com/wilsontctc/Author_list.htm

As you see, the Sasportas-Greene books are a 4 volume series. If you haven't read all 4, you have some more reading to do!

Reading all the time,

Tim
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Unread 03-22-2007, 05:20 PM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Hi Tim,

I have been reading the Sasportas - Greene books backwards I have read volume 4 the inner planets because I thought it covered the Sun and Moon as well. When I realised there was more I bought the luminaries, I will have get the other 2 to complete the set . I have ordered Jeff Greens Pluto book, and I was looking for a good Composite book and synastry book, I was deciding between Robert Hands Composite book and Steven Forrest. I couldn't decide which one and ended up ordering something completely different - Saturn a new look at an old devil by Liz Greene, and another book destined for murder it was only 20p and it is about six killers and their charts. I will have to get my relationship astrology books next month, I will get Steven Forrest since it has been recommended. I want a few of the other books you have listed like Gods of Change and through the looking glass, they are a bit pricey on Amazon they must be sought after books, I will definitely get them when I can.
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Unread 03-22-2007, 07:48 PM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Tim
6 Murders is good ,but I think they might have gotten atleast 1 of the charts off in time of birth. That does not reflect the benefits of reading it though as the insight is right on.

I had read most all the profiler books and was interested to see how these people worked.

Dahmer was the embodiment of evil if you ask me. He had a T-Sq. to Pluto when using Chiron and involving the 8th\5th\11th. He was born 8 days after me. Richard Rameiz, not in the book ,is another Serial Killer born in my yr. and the Pisces NM was a big event in both of these cases IMO.
Both wanted control and domination over their victims so did Gacy.

Pluto can give the ability to regenerate or tear down strucures.These 2 wanted to tear down lives for their twisted benefits.
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Unread 03-23-2007, 11:44 AM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Should be an interesting read on the killers and their charts. The book had a few good reviews. I read on a site yesterday were they were doing an astrological study on the Murderers, he said the book destined for murder was not a big enough study and you need at least 20 - 30 charts for this type of study. But the book would be huge if you talked about that many charts and biographies in full detail. I don't think the book was intended as a large study. Although he used the midpoints given in the book the Mars/Saturn Mars/Pluto and Mars/Uranus I think it was those midpoints, sorry if I am wrong as It was late last night when I was reading it.

P.S My progressed Moon is currently going through the 8th house at the moment, I am ready now to read the deep, dark, and transformational issues. I have chosen light reading haven't I Saturn, Pluto and Killers. I might find more deeper insights into myself as a result of reading these books.
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Unread 03-25-2007, 11:50 AM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Just thought I would post a link to a study done on the natal charts of serial killers:

Really interesting info as to what planet/house/aspect have more significance. Seems Gemini, Sagittarius, Capricorn Sun stand out. Mars in 12H, 3H/9H axis (=Gem/Sag). Surprising stuff.

http://www.astrologyresearchjournal....0603/index.htm


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Unread 03-30-2007, 02:00 PM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Hi Twiggy,

Interesting article I'm not sure if Astrology will ever be able to read a natal chart and tell if a person is destined to be a murderer. According to the author of destined to kill she says you can't tell if someone is going to kill, but a professional Astrologer should be able to pick out of 10-12 charts at least three charts having the most potential for violence. This is not the same as predicting murder but astrology is not fatalistic. Astrology deals with probabilities - although many people wish it could be more fatalistic.
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Unread 07-26-2009, 09:20 PM
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Re: The Dark Side, to Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
Ray,

Jeff Green gets into The Dark Side of Pluto...and I mean the REALLY Dark Side. Beatings, abuse, murders, it's all in there in his Pluto book (Volume 1). Not for the nervous, this book gets at all of those Pluto things most people don't talk about. So the book is useful for understanding what Pluto problems REALLY are...whether or not we personally have experienced the dark side of Pluto or not.

However, since he DOES focus on the "dark side" his overall interpretations can be VERY dark and disturbing (such as the "mental trauma" discussions he has). It's useful to think of his discussions as about "archetypal" energy (energies which symbolize something we all understand), which helps us better relate to the sometimes horrific descriptions he has.

Archetypically,

Tim
Where could one find information on the brighter side of Pluto?

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?;...rN-u1248634055

Last edited by sherrytatiana; 07-26-2009 at 09:23 PM.
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Unread 07-26-2009, 10:13 PM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Interesting article I'm not sure if Astrology will ever be able to read a natal chart and tell if a person is destined to be a murderer. According to the author of destined to kill she says you can't tell if someone is going to kill, but a professional Astrologer should be able to pick out of 10-12 charts at least three charts having the most potential for violence. This is not the same as predicting murder but astrology is not fatalistic. Astrology deals with probabilities - although many people wish it could be more fatalistic. by Shining Ray


This reminds me of an amazing study group I was part of 25 yrs ago. The facilitator gave a group of advanced astrology students 12 charts. We were asked to pick out the 'cold blooded killers' from the victims, and the homicide detectives. [ In those days there was no internet for us to run to either.]

We had one full day to figure out which was which. Nobody was 100% successful. Most people were able to pick out the detectives from the other 2 groups, because they had more trines/sextiles in their luminaries and personal planets it seems, and lots of earth trines.
But it was nearly impossible to differentiate a homicidal maniac from one of his victims. The malefics in tense aspects in air signs and cardinal houses were very evident in BOTH killers and victims. It was fascinating and very telling. And it blew my mind that Gemini and Sag were so prominent, and not so much Scorpio, although a very excessive preponderance of Plutonian people in both groups.
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Unread 07-26-2009, 10:16 PM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

What about Pluto on the DSC?Is it considered as in the 7h house or in the 6th?? Being it between the 7th and the 6th I suppose its influence can result in both?
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Unread 07-26-2009, 11:14 PM
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Re: Pluto and Emotional Trauma

Quote:
This reminds me of an amazing study group I was part of 25 yrs ago. The facilitator gave a group of advanced astrology students 12 charts. We were asked to pick out the 'cold blooded killers' from the victims, and the homicide detectives. [ In those days there was no Internet for us to run to either.

We had one full day to figure out which was which. Nobody was 100% successful. Most people were able to pick out the detectives from the other 2 groups, because they had more trines/sextiles in their luminaries and personal planets it seems, and lots of earth trines.

But it was nearly impossible to differentiate a homicidal maniac from one of his victims. The malefics in tense aspects in air signs and cardinal houses were very evident in BOTH killers and victims. It was fascinating and very telling. And it blew my mind that Gemini and Sag were so prominent, and not so much Scorpio, although a very excessive preponderance of Plutonian people in both groups.
I would imagine it would be difficult, I have found victims/killers have similar violent aspects, which you do expect, it is difficult to do. At least the detectives were picked out. I looked at some suicide charts the other week, but I don't think I prepared well, and never really kept focused. I did notice a very low emphasis on Capricorn planets. Unless it was Jupiter in Capricorn, or the odd Venus in Capricorn, but a very low number across the charts.

I did a murdered people study ages ago, with 100 charts, Scorpio was high, and it was was in my suicide study. I am sure Sagittarius was pretty high too. I just got the Jigsaw astrology research tool, but it looks complicated to run, I will have to focus on it when I am not tired, and see how it works. I might do a study for a few weeks, but set it up properly this time . Studies are fascinating, most are mine usually result in what is already printed in books. The Jupiter-Saturn did show up a lot for suicides. Sun-Pluto and Sun-Neptune were among the solar aspects, but my computer needed to be wiped clean and I lost the rest of the data.
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