Saturn Karma and different aspects

i've read that in synastries where strong saturn aspects are present the realtionships tend to be karmic.

There are a couple of things i'd like to clear up
in synastries where saturn and say (venus/moon) are involved in 'hard aspect' does that mean one of the people 'owes' the other
of so, which one it is: is it saturn that's in debt to say the venus/moon person or is the venus/moon in debt to the saturn person.

regarding debt. would it be present within synastries with harmounious aspects as well as negative

karmicly speaking. what's the difference btwn synastries with hard vs harmounious aspects.
i know how the relationships are said to wrok out.
hard aspects you feel restricted more than you'd like.
easy aspects usually lead to a strong commited bond.
but KaRmically, ...
what's the significance of having easy aspects to saturn versus having hard aspects to saturn.

thx

That's a good question.

I assume since there is good kartma and bad karma, that's what the hard (bad karma) and harmonious (good karma) represents.

who do you think is paying the karma (in hard aspects i guess): the saturn person or the planet person.

specifically
what if in a synastry chart
one persons satrurn makes a whole bunch of 'positive' aspects to the other persons personal planets
but the other persons saturn makes a whole bunch of "negative" aspects.
how would you describe this particular dynamic, from a karmic perspective of course

hope i'm making sense

Hi. I think that any Saturn cross-aspects bring a greater possibility of long-term commitment. The hard aspects perhaps tend to involve greater challenges to both people in getting the best out of the relationship.

My understanding is that the Saturn person in the cross aspect is often owed some debt by the other person, but also that the Saturn person will tend to feel a sense of responsibility towards the other person. The Saturn person then is the 'elder' who guides the other, and the other may experience the Saturn person as an authority over the dimension of experience symbolised by their aspected planet or point.

But of course its not usually that simple, because the Saturn person is having their Saturnian sense of inadequacy triggered by the other, and so defensive behaviour on the part of Saturn can kick in before too long. One might expect the honeymoon period to be shorter in relationships where there are strong hard Saturn contacts. Then the guide becomes punitive and critical, and the other feels obliged to take it, at least for a while, due to the sense of discipleship and debt they experience around the Saturn person.

As always, the soft aspects can lead to things sinking into a rut, whereby there isn't enough tension building up to bring things to a head, and so the Saturn person may just keep their authority in tact. But probably with the hard aspects, if the Saturn person doesn't try to sort out where there defensiveness is coming from, the other will probably say 'enough is enough' (as they unconsciously decide that they have paid their debt) and move on.

Either way, the other will learn about the planet that has been aspected - and its largely down to the maturity of that Saturn person how this dynamic takes shape. But if someone keeps getting involved in whatever ways with people who's Saturn's are in hard aspect to their personal planets and points, and this is reflected as them being oppressed, then one might ask why this keeps happening - ie why does this person keep attracting negative authority figures - and of course the answers will probably be in the birth chart and in the early environment.

Its worth keeping in mind I think that whatever aspects your planet, it is your planet that is being triggered in you, and your relationship with that part of yourself is the most important factor in any synastry contact.

Also, transits and progressions, to the natal chart and transits to the composite chart are very useful in understanding how a relationship is developing over time.

Hope this helps. I would recommend Pauline Stone's Astrology, Karma And Relationships for further reading on all this and more. Its called something like that, anyway.

I don't know too much about karmic astrology but I would assume both people will pay the debt, not just the saturn person. I also would think that past life karma between people could be good/bad, say a loving and caring mother who dedicates her whole life to try and help her son who hurts her emotionally and disappoints her.. In the next life the karma would be switched. (Maybe not the next life, apparently karma can take many reincarnations before it's paid off)