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  #26  
Unread 07-16-2019, 07:47 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Mars as masculine AND feminine, to autumn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmiccradle View Post
Foolish me to answer in that context, no there wasn't, I mean the mentality to balance out for the sake of balance, 7 to 12, 10 to 12, 15 to 12. I would say go with what you have and stop when we have 12 to 12. I don't agree with a double placement, one planet for two signs, or two planets for one sign. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I've included two Domicile-rulers of an unusual sort--the Ascendant, which is easily linked to the ancient Greek god of Sunrise, Apollo; and the Age-indicator, linked to Gaia, Greco-Roman goddess personifying the Earth. I'm calling it 12/12, meaning one-on-one Domicile-rulerships.
It's the extreme importance of these 2 measured points that qualifies them to be considered "major players". The Asc is Domicled in Sagittarius, and the Age-indicator in Taurus.
Once the pattern is established using the 12 Domiciles, other rulership types fall into place in a regular manner.

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Unread 07-16-2019, 11:01 PM
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Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post

You got it exactly right, Tim.
The reason why the planets rule two signs
is

so they can have both a masculine expression in their day houses
and a feminine expression in their night houses.


The Sun and the Moon cannot have opposite-gender expressions,
so only have one sign.
Thanks for explaining the rationale of why planets rule two signs
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

The image of the Crab is feminine
The image of the Lion is masculine
The image of the Maiden is feminine
The image of the Scales is masculine
The image of the Scorpion is feminine
The image of the Archer is masculine
The image of the Goat-Horned One is feminine
The image of the Water-Pourer is masculine
The image of the Fishes is feminine
The image of the Ram is masculine
The image of the Bull is feminine
The image of the Twins is masculine

Such, then, are the observations of the effects of the stars as made by our predecessors..

Bibliography:
Ludwich, A. (Ed.). (1877). Maximi et Ammonis carminum De actionum auspiciis reliquiae: accedunt Anecdota astrologica. BG Teubneri. Retrieved from
https://archive.org/details/maximiet...00ludw/page/n3
Manilius, & Goold, G. P. (1985). Astronomica. BG Teubner.
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Schmidt, R. The Astrological Record of the Early Greek Sages. Project Hindsight.
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
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  #28  
Unread 07-17-2019, 02:23 AM
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Arrow Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Almost a whole decade went by and this thread had to be revived for goodness sake. IMO, there are 4-8 masculine, 4-8 feminine and 4 dual-gender planets, the 7 traditional or classics, 3 modern or outer, and 2 newly-discovered dwarfs:

Masculine: Sun, Cruithne, Mars, Jupiter, Chiron, Saturn, Uranus, and Pluto. Feminine: Moon, Mercury, Venus, Lilith, Ceres, Neptune, Eris, and Sedna. And dual-genders (can have qualities of the other gender): Mercury, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto.

Aquarius is ruled by a dual-gender planet, although in a masculine sign: Uranus and then there are proposals to have Eris a co-ruler, a feminine planet. And the traditional rulership of Saturn is still valid, that's a heavily masculine planet.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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  #29  
Unread 07-17-2019, 08:39 AM
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Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
Almost a whole decade went by and this thread had to be revived for goodness sake.
I'm not sure with regards to your first sentence, is this meant in a positive context or negative context?
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  #30  
Unread 07-17-2019, 09:31 AM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
Almost a whole decade went by and this thread had to be revived for goodness sake. IMO, there are 4-8 masculine, 4-8 feminine and 4 dual-gender planets, the 7 traditional or classics, 3 modern or outer, and 2 newly-discovered dwarfs:

Masculine: Sun, Cruithne, Mars, Jupiter, Chiron, Saturn, Uranus, and Pluto. Feminine: Moon, Mercury, Venus, Lilith, Ceres, Neptune, Eris, and Sedna. And dual-genders (can have qualities of the other gender): Mercury, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto.

Aquarius is ruled by a dual-gender planet, although in a masculine sign: Uranus and then there are proposals to have Eris a co-ruler, a feminine planet. And the traditional rulership of Saturn is still valid, that's a heavily masculine planet.
Yin and Yang are better descriptions of the placements and Signs than masculine and feminine. The Fire and Air-signs supply Yang qualities to the placements. The Earth and Water-signs supply Yin qualities. Plenty of women who are predominantly Yang, and men who are more Yin. Yang sends, Yin receives.
As for Uranian Domicile-rulership of Aquarius, I no longer use the masculine version of the Ancient Greeks, who was deposed and dispensed with. His granddaughter Urania, daughter of Mnemenosyne, goddess of Memory, replaced him as the personification of the Heavens. She's also the Modernistic ruler of astrology, as befits her role as the Muse of astrology and astronomy. I have to write it Urania() to make that clear, though.
Urania() is both feminine and Yang. Mercury is decidedly masculine, and capable of being both Yang and Yin, a necessity for the planet of communication, which is about both sending and receiving.

Last edited by david starling; 07-17-2019 at 09:44 AM.
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  #31  
Unread 07-17-2019, 09:36 AM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

What could be more obvious than Earth-sign Taurus, "the Bull", NOT "the Cow", being both masculine and Yin?

Last edited by david starling; 07-17-2019 at 09:46 AM.
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  #32  
Unread 07-17-2019, 10:05 AM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Both Moon and Sun are obviously Yang, since they both send so much light. The gender isn't the issue. The original Moon-deity within recorded history was masculine, in ancient Sumeria. There are cultures with a Sun-goddess, which doesn't change its Yang nature.
The difference is in the Domicile-rulerships: The Moon (notice the gender-neutral names we use for both luminaries) is Domicled in a Water-sign, so it's a Yang-ruler of a Yin-sign. Whereas the Yang Sun is Domicled in a Yang-sign.
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  #33  
Unread 07-17-2019, 10:07 AM
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Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Would it be reasonable to say that androgynous planets are masculine in a masculine sign and feminine in a feminine sign?

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  #34  
Unread 07-17-2019, 10:10 AM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Both Venus and Mars are Yang-rulers. Both are Domicled in Yang-signs. Again, gender isn't the issue.
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  #35  
Unread 07-17-2019, 10:15 AM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmiccradle View Post
Would it be reasonable to say that androgynous planets are masculine in a masculine sign and feminine in a feminine sign?

Are you equating Yang and Yin with masculine and feminine?
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  #36  
Unread 07-17-2019, 10:18 AM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Siriusly
Moon REFLECTS light of the Sun - has no light otherwise
It's Sun that sends out so much light

so as a consequence Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn are visible
The Moon, like the Sun, is a Luminary.
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  #37  
Unread 07-17-2019, 10:21 AM
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Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post


The Moon, like the Sun, is a Luminary.
Moon is a Luminary ONLY BECAUSE MOON reflects sunlight

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Both Moon and Sun are obviously Yang,
since they both send so much light.
Siriusly false premise
Moon REFLECTS light of the Sun - has no light otherwise
It's Sun that "sends out so much light"
so as a consequence Moon as well as Mercury
and Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn are all visible
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  #38  
Unread 07-17-2019, 10:35 AM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmiccradle View Post
Would it be reasonable to say that androgynous planets are masculine in a masculine sign and feminine in a feminine sign?

Gender aside, you raise a good point. I singled out Mercury as being both Yang and Yin. But, it seems you're correct. All the Planets have that feature, it just stands it more with Merc.
In fact, I've become convinced that the best ancient personification of Planet Mars in its Yin function is actually the Greco-Roman goddess Demeter/Ceres, goddess of Nature, who had no ancient planet of her own.
The real question is, what causes a Planet to shift from Yang to Yin?
You're suggesting it's the Sign-placements.

Last edited by david starling; 07-17-2019 at 11:04 AM.
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  #39  
Unread 07-17-2019, 10:37 AM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Moon is a Luminary ONLY BECAUSE MOON reflects sunlight


Siriusly false premise
Moon REFLECTS light of the Sun - has no light otherwise
It's Sun that "sends out so much light"
so as a consequence Moon as well as Mercury
and Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn are all visible
In that case, there's only one Luminary by your definition.
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  #40  
Unread 07-17-2019, 10:44 AM
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Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post


The Moon, like the Sun, is a Luminary.
Moon is a Luminary ONLY BECAUSE MOON reflects sunlight

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Both Moon and Sun are obviously Yang,
since they both send so much light.
Siriusly false premise
Moon REFLECTS light of the Sun - has no light otherwise
It's Sun that "sends out so much light"
so as a consequence Moon as well as Mercury
and Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn are all visible


Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post


In that case, there's only one Luminary by your definition.
Clearly by any definition

"The Luminary commonly referred to as the Moon"
nevertheless is well documented as
"A Luminary that illuminates by reflecting the light of the Sun"
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  #41  
Unread 07-17-2019, 11:02 AM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Moon is a Luminary ONLY BECAUSE MOON reflects sunlight


Siriusly false premise
Moon REFLECTS light of the Sun - has no light otherwise
It's Sun that "sends out so much light"
so as a consequence Moon as well as Mercury
and Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn are all visible



Clearly by any definition

"The Luminary commonly referred to as the Moon"
nevertheless is well documented as
"A Luminary that illuminates by reflecting the light of the Sun"
It's still a Luminary, sending more light than the Planets, regardless of whether or not it's reflected.
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  #42  
Unread 07-17-2019, 11:24 AM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Both Venus and Mars are Yang-rulers. Both are Domicled in Yang-signs. Again, gender isn't the issue.
Venus, like Mercury, is an inner-planet Heliocentrically, so it appears as both a Morning-star and Evening-star. In ancient Sumeria, although personified as the same goddess (Inanna/Ishtar), she was both Yang, as goddess of Justice, which could include righteous violence; and, Yin as the Evening-star goddess of love and peace.
So, I agree, regardless of gender, all of the indicators, including the Sun, can have a Yin function, which is most noticeable to me with the Sun in Water-signs.
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  #43  
Unread 07-17-2019, 11:40 AM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

The reason the Moon and Sun are Domicled in only one Sign each in Traditionalistic astrology, isn't because of their being "too feminine" and "too masculine".
It's because they move in only one direction through the zodiac, whereas the Planets move in both directions. And, it makes for a neat, tidy, 7/12 diagram!
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  #44  
Unread 07-17-2019, 11:51 AM
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Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Yes. It seems that the usage of opposites is key. Nocturnal and diurnal have also been used in this thread. The thing that occupies me most is how it is possible that great astrologers could not find common ground and for example only Mercury is completely agreed upon bij all astrologers. The rest recieves different qualities depending on the astrologer. I am attempting to balance the Almuten, this is impossible if the distribution isn't realistic. I am also not in favour of two planets to one sign or one planet in two signs.
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  #45  
Unread 07-17-2019, 12:20 PM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmiccradle View Post
Yes. It seems that the usage of opposites is key. Nocturnal and diurnal have also been used in this thread. The thing that occupies me most is how it is possible that great astrologers could not find common ground and for example only Mercury is completely agreed upon bij all astrologers. The rest recieves different qualities depending on the astrologer. I am attempting to balance the Almuten, this is impossible if the distribution isn't realistic. I am also not in favour of two planets to one sign or one planet in two signs.
Same here, except for Horary, where it seems 7/12 is at its best.
My 12/12 system occurred to me for just that reason, along with what I consider the overwhelming importance of the Asc and Age-indicator. I use those in place of two additional planets, and as I mentioned, associate them with Apollo and Gaia, Domiciled in Sagittarius and Taurus, according to pattern. That moved Jupiter to being Domicled in Virgo, which I noted was the relationship of the Virgin goddess Athena/Minerva ruled by her father, Zeus/Jupiter. Venus is Domicled in Libra, and Mercury in Gemini.
The rest are standard Modernistic, which fit the pattern I used regarding rate of motion.
Since there are several types of rulership involved, it doesn't entirely abandon Traditionalistic. For example, one rulership category is "Regulating-ruler", which is the case for Jupiter relative to Sagittarius. Venus is Exalted in Taurus, and Mars is Exalted in Scorpio, which I call "Devotional-rulership".
The basic pattern is dependant on the Domicile-rulerships, and the rest follows from that.
I've done a LOT of work on the astrological Ages, which is what made the Age-indicator available as a Domicile-ruler. The current, conventional understanding of them is nothing short of abysmal--practically useless.[IMO]

Last edited by david starling; 07-17-2019 at 12:25 PM.
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  #46  
Unread 07-17-2019, 12:30 PM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmiccradle View Post
Yes. It seems that the usage of opposites is key. Nocturnal and diurnal have also been used in this thread. The thing that occupies me most is how it is possible that great astrologers could not find common ground and for example only Mercury is completely agreed upon bij all astrologers. The rest recieves different qualities depending on the astrologer. I am attempting to balance the Almuten, this is impossible if the distribution isn't realistic. I am also not in favour of two planets to one sign or one planet in two signs.
Are you looking for the Exaltation-ruler of each Sign? This 12/12 system changes that from Traditionalistic. For example, Neptune is Exalted in Libra.

Last edited by david starling; 07-17-2019 at 12:34 PM.
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  #47  
Unread 07-17-2019, 12:32 PM
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Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

In that case, there's only one Luminary by your definition.
my response was:

Clearly by any definition
"The Luminary commonly referred to as the Moon"
nevertheless is well documented as
"A Luminary that illuminates by reflecting the light of the Sun"
Moon is a Luminary aka a light
SOLELY because MOON REFLECTS SUNLIGHT
ergo
obviously, Moon sends more light to planet Earth
because
MOON IS CLOSER TO PLANET EARTH
than the planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn
which ALSO send their REFLECTED sunlight from the sun

i.e.
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

The Moon, like the Sun, is a Luminary.
Moon is a Luminary ONLY BECAUSE MOON reflects sunlight
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Both Moon and Sun are obviously Yang,
since they both send so much light.
Moon REFLECTS light of the Sun - has no light otherwise
It's Sun that "sends out so much light"
so as a consequence Moon as well as Mercury
and Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn are all visible
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

It's still a Luminary, sending more light than the Planets,
regardless of whether or not it's reflected.

Moon IS a luinary aka a light
and it sends only reflected sunlight
as do the seven visible planets
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  #48  
Unread 07-17-2019, 12:41 PM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

I've been promising a comprehensive thread on 12/12, which you'd need to evaluate it for yourself. My excuse is, I'm waiting for Jupiter to station Direct.
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  #49  
Unread 07-17-2019, 12:45 PM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
my response was:

Clearly by any definition
"The Luminary commonly referred to as the Moon"
nevertheless is well documented as
"A Luminary that illuminates by reflecting the light of the Sun"
Moon is a Luminary aka a light
SOLELY because MOON REFLECTS SUNLIGHT
ergo
obviously, Moon sends more light to planet Earth
because
MOON IS CLOSER TO PLANET EARTH
than the planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn
which ALSO send their REFLECTED sunlight from the sun

i.e.

Moon is a Luminary ONLY BECAUSE MOON reflects sunlight


Moon REFLECTS light of the Sun - has no light otherwise
It's Sun that "sends out so much light"
so as a consequence Moon as well as Mercury
and Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn are all visible

Moon IS a luinary aka a light
and it sends only reflected sunlight
as do the seven visible planets
The Moon is brighter than the planets, and in some circumstances can be used to actually see by on an otherwise dark night. That's why it's a "Luminary".
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  #50  
Unread 07-17-2019, 01:16 PM
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Smile Re: The planets and their sexual gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Moon is visibly brighter than the planets
only because Moon reflects more sunlight than the planets do
because Moon is closer to earth than the seven visible planets

and
Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn
are also visible only because they also reflect sunlight

Moon is a Luminary aka Light
because

Moon REFLECTS SUNLIGHT
sufficient "to actually see by

on an otherwise dark night"
If not reflecting sunlight, Moon invisible
Like people, the Moon is brighter on some days than others.
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