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Horary Questions on Medicine and health For questions about health, illnesses and recovery, pregnancy and baby gender.


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  #1  
Unread 07-03-2018, 12:38 PM
Marizkora Marizkora is offline
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Ivf

After some rest im here again .(Tik hope you are well..)
Hello to everyone..
My question is: if i should use donor s egg( in order to have a reliable birth of healthy child ) in my next third and last attemp of ivf ..
I had 3 miscarrieges by physical conseption the doctors gives me hope despite the huge age ,but im already too much dissapointed.
I need help with the chart because i dont know which is the querent and which is the donor and which houses i should look ..
Thank you very much
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  #2  
Unread 07-03-2018, 10:59 PM
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Re: Ivf

Sorry, but I am getting a mixed testimony out of this chart. It seems to me that your real question is where you can have a healthy baby out of this procedure.

The moon is in the 5th house of children, in a fertile sign, applying to a trine with your first house Jupiter. That looks promising. But some of the other testimonies, not so much. Venus doesn't apply to Saturn, and Venus is in the sign of Saturn's detriment, for example.

Perhaps your best option is to discuss the situation further with your doctor, and then to decide whether the hope of a baby is outweighed by your unwillingness to go through the procedure.
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  #3  
Unread 07-04-2018, 04:55 AM
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Re: Ivf

I basically agree with Waybread, although I'd be a bit more optimistic.

Moon in fertile sign, dispositior of Moon is Jupiter (natural ruler of children) also in fertile sign and in H1, L11 (5th from 7th) also in fertile sign and dispositor of L11 is Jupiter again and in a fertile sign. There's an applying aspect between Moon and Jupiter by trine.

However, what doesn't bode well is L1 in barren sign, L5 retrograde in a neutral sign, no aspect between L1 and L5 or Moon and L5, plus Jupiter as natural significator of children peregrine and retrograde as well. Also, there may be an issue with your husband, his significator is retrograde and approaching the SN. So he may not be a cooperative component right now. Receptions don't look so good either, L1 in detriment of L5 and L5 in detriment of Moon and fall of Jupiter. You may be blocking it with your attitude.

So I'd say generally speaking, there's reason to remain hopeful but now is not the right time to do it.
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  #4  
Unread 07-04-2018, 07:12 AM
Marizkora Marizkora is offline
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Re: Ivf

Dear waybread Dear muchacho,

The question was exactly the following :
Should i do ivf with donors egg???
to have a healthy baby or i could do it on my own..??
Of course i dont want to use donors egg and my husband is opposite to this.
Noone doctor (about 5 ive visited ) told me to use donors egg but im afraid of age im very very very stressed , im very very very sad and all im asking is if the solution is egg donation.
Of course is not an issue that a simple horary could help me but i would like to take chance.
When i asked the question in my mind was the chart to have a clear yes go ahead with donors egg or a clear no be patient and try on your own.
So please you two tell me what??? the chart says yes to egg donation????
The question i repeat has nothing to do with the question if im having a healthy baby or if i could have a healthy pregnacy. Was exactly " must i use donors egg?
Im confused because i think thta we have to examinate L11 maybe??? L 7 is the husband ?? or is the donor???? L7 is the other generally ,so in this kind of question should we use L5 or something else?? also L 10?? which is the ivf technique??
Pleaase tell me the answer what do you think is yes or no??
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  #5  
Unread 07-04-2018, 07:24 AM
Marizkora Marizkora is offline
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Re: Ivf

Also please please tell me something ( to learn because im really trying to learn reading chart) why you say that the L5 has to do with the saturn???/

I couls say not only the saturn.
The house begins at the end of aquarius and has almost all the pisces inside it!
i mean it is at last 28 or 29 orbs of aquarius !!!
so the l of 5 th is not only saturn!!!!

AM i wrong???
also the reproductive system is the l of 8 th???
this is fertile.and the venus is not too bad situated.i mean i dont know if she is..leo is infertilebut is in the 10 house right??

After 10 th july jupiter is not any more retrogate .
Should i ask again then???
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  #6  
Unread 07-04-2018, 08:24 AM
Marizkora Marizkora is offline
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Re: Ivf

Please let me give you my interpretation and then pleasee correct me as you are much more experienced.

I see a beautiful trine between sun fertile jupiter ferile and moon fertile..
jupiter is tradionally the baby moon is maybe me ..the mystery is which is the sun??
in the chart the house 11 which has to do i think with surrogacy is mercury or sun???
if it is mercury then the things are a little bit good for me .. but if it is sun then the answer im searching is that the solution is the egg donation but it would not work because of husband s denial.
????
or the answer which seems in the 4 th house is that i must not proceed to egg donation because in the near future something good would happen..???

Sun is in the moons sign and in the exaltation of jupiter.
Sun is definately the co ruler of 10 th ( doctor ivf techniques ) but i don t know if it is the donor ..
???
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  #7  
Unread 07-04-2018, 08:42 AM
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Re: Ivf

Astrology aside, just based on what you've told us about your current circumstances (your doubts and contradictory thoughts) this is clearly a "Hell, NO!" You see, you can have the best doctors and best donors in the world but this is always only one part of the equation. The other part is you. And you have to be a cooperative component in order to make this work. And in your current state of confusion and doubt you are not a cooperative component. If it doesn't feel like a "Hell, Yes!" then don't do it. It's not going to end well.

So I would suggest you first get clear about what you want and especially why you want it. And then you can do another chart.
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  #8  
Unread 07-04-2018, 08:59 AM
Marizkora Marizkora is offline
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Re: Ivf

OH MY DEAR MUCHACHO THANK YOU!!
NO I DONT WANT TO DOIT.

In fact i hate it!!!
BUT there is a huge but...
if i cant on my own then my self will force me to do it.If it is the only way to give birth that way then i will do it. But i hate it.
It would be like sucrifice for me. Im not in the time to do a decision . its too early . But but i wanted to see forward thts why i asked the question.. to know what to expect.. If the chart said yes go for egg donation its the only way then with cry and sadness i will do it...
Sacrifice. Thats the real word .
So now according to you i have to wait. Maybe sth would happen ..good maybe..
right?
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  #9  
Unread 07-05-2018, 07:50 AM
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Re: Ivf

Marizkora, I totally got your question the first time, but please realize that when you ask a question that does not fit a horary format, we have to pose the question in such a way that it fits.

Sometimes charts give a mixed testimony. They do not always give a clear, unambiguous "yes or no."

This was your OP question:

Quote:
if i should use donor s egg( in order to have a reliable birth of healthy child )
I didn't see anything on your OP about the alternative of your continuing to try to have a baby without this procedure. You're not contemplating IVF just to do IVF. Your goal is to have a baby out of this procedure.

There is such a thing as over-thinking a chart and a question. It's best just to look at what your chart is telling you.

Saturn is the traditional ruler of Aquarius, the sign on the cusp of the 5th house of children. This is true if you use a whole signs system, as well. So Saturn has a lot to say about the affairs of this house. It doesn't matter whether the sign on the cusp is at 0 or 29 degrees of this sign.

Look, I don't make up the rules of horary. I report and interpret them as best I can.

We can view the moon in Pisces as co-ruler of the 5th house. Pisces is one of the fertile signs, so that's to the good, as the moon's applying trine to Pisces' traditional ruler Jupiter, in the first house. I'm not sure if the sun translates light here, as the moon will get to Jupiter before the sun does. In any case, with the applying trine to the sun, I wouldn't see it as a prohibition. In the first house, Jupiter also co-rules you, the querent. Jupiter has some dignity, being angular and in its own terms.

Jupiter retrograde suggests to me that you are having second thoughts about the procedure.

The 8th house rules the reproductive organs. The 8th and your ascendant (you) are ruled by Venus. She's normally beneficially, but Venus at 22 Leo has no essential dignity, although it is angular.

But here is where other testimonies look less wonderful. Venus makes no aspect to Saturn, the moon, or Jupiter. Essentially we're looking for whether those 5th house planets or rulers will come to you, or you to them.

Venus is in the sign of Saturn's detriment.

Marikora, I'm sorry not to give you the answer you want, but if you're ambivalent in your own mind about IVF, maybe the chart reflects your ambivalence.
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  #10  
Unread 07-05-2018, 08:33 AM
Marizkora Marizkora is offline
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Re: Ivf

Dear waybread
You mean that i would not have a baby whether i use donors egg or not??
But this would be another question i quess.

Also i ve read that the answer is given from the 4th house.
The forth house has the SN in it.
So we couldnt say that the answer to my question is "no dont proceed to serogacy and there is a trine applying could be a potential of a childbirth maybe with ivf but own eggs."???
I suppose that if moon sun and jupiter was not placed well without any aspect between them , then it would be easy to be absolutely negative to all.
But now we have a venus ( beneficial but barren )in the face of jupiter and we have a ferile moon lord of 10 th (ivf techniques maybe )into the fertile 5 th and a sun also in exaltation of jupiter.

Lets say that the worst scenario of not having a baby at all is the right one , then please tell me what do you believe is this trine???
Because something must shows . We are not talking about seperating aspects (which could be the past maybe)or with many orbs away.

I want you to excuse me for toomany qustions and please know that im gratefull for responding to me, really..I m asking because i want to learn the way to read and also please tell me in this chart which planet represents the donor?
Thank you waybread..
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  #11  
Unread 07-05-2018, 05:50 PM
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Re: Ivf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marizkora View Post
OH MY DEAR MUCHACHO THANK YOU!!
NO I DONT WANT TO DOIT.

In fact i hate it!!!
Yeah, I can see that reflected in the receptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marizkora View Post
BUT there is a huge but...
if i cant on my own then my self will force me to do it.If it is the only way to give birth that way then i will do it. But i hate it.
It would be like sucrifice for me. Im not in the time to do a decision . its too early . But but i wanted to see forward thts why i asked the question.. to know what to expect.. If the chart said yes go for egg donation its the only way then with cry and sadness i will do it...
Sacrifice. Thats the real word .
So now according to you i have to wait. Maybe sth would happen ..good maybe..
right?
I'd rather take a look at your birth chart. The birth chart should give the full picture about your ability/chances to have children.

But again, astrology aside, you should really get clear about why you want to get pregnant and have a child. Are you under some kind of cultural pressure to have your own biological child? I can tell you from personal experience that those miscarriages very likely happen for psychological reasons. I know several women who got married and then were expected to have children right away but psychologically weren't ready. First it took a long time until they got pregnant, and when they finally got pregnant, they had miscarriages. Things changed when they heard about other women conceiving easily and enjoying their pregnancy and then playing with their newborns. They actually spent some time playing with babies. And suddenly they were ready, they conceived easily, their pregnancies and births were all without complications and their children are all fully healthy. So my guess is for some reason you are blocking this.
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Unread 07-06-2018, 05:49 AM
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Re: Ivf

Muchacho, I think your theory might work in some cases (like mine,) but obviously too many women, over the course of history, have had babies they did not want for various reasons-- some of them pretty awful, like girls who were victims of gang rape and incest.

Marizkora, I would suggest that if horary interests you, that you make an effort to study it-- on some other questions. You've got so much palpable stress riding on this question that you're trying to wrestle the chart do things it just wasn't intended to do.

I have a lot of sympathy for your dilemma. I have two adult children, spaced 5 years apart. This timing wasn't deliberate, though: the "stork factory" simply shut down after my first child. After 3 years of "trying," I got my head around being the mother of an only child, and I told myself how fortunate I was to have that one healthy, wonderful little boy, and decided not to plan on any more children. Not long after that decision, I became pregnant with my daughter.

Stress is a big inhibitor to conceiving, as you know. So if you can tell yourself that you are fine just as you are, and fortunate to have the good things in your life, see if you can let go of all of the tension you are expressing.

The whole question of modern fertility treatments (donor eggs, donor sperm, IVF, and so on) just didn't exist when horary astrology was invented, so we have to try to simplify questions down to the point where a horary chart would be usable.

Bottom line, is that you want to have a healthy baby, and you wonder if IVF will make that happen. This question lets us put you as the first house, and your hoped-for baby as a 5th house matter. I think everything else only serves to confuse your basic, fundamental question. It's not "either/or" with normal sex with your husband. It's not trying to locate an egg donor in the chart. It's not looking at planets that don't relate to your question and its significators.

With the moon applying to a trine with your sun, I think the key is getting your husband to agree to your having the procedure. The sun is a traditional significator of a woman's husband. Then both the sun and moon apply to a trine with Jupiter.

The 4th house traditionally shows "the end of a matter." I don't think it gets us somewhere we haven't already been, with Saturn ruling the 5th house of children.

You say that, "something must show;" but as I said, this isn't always the case. This chart shows conflicting testimonies. Some charts have considerations against judgement. Sometimes when this happens the chart actually doesn't show the question's true moment in time (which might have been earlier,) sometimes the querent doesn't know or won't say her real question.

But really, Marizkora, you want this decision to be between you, your husband, and doctor. Not based on some amateur astrologers' best guesses.

With all good wishes, W.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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  #13  
Unread 07-06-2018, 09:11 AM
Marizkora Marizkora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Muchacho, I think your theory might work in some cases (like mine,) but obviously too many women, over the course of history, have had babies they did not want for various reasons-- some of them pretty awful, like girls who were victims of gang rape and incest.

Marizkora, I would suggest that if horary interests you, that you make an effort to study it-- on some other questions. You've got so much palpable stress riding on this question that you're trying to wrestle the chart do things it just wasn't intended to do.

I have a lot of sympathy for your dilemma. I have two adult children, spaced 5 years apart. This timing wasn't deliberate, though: the "stork factory" simply shut down after my first child. After 3 years of "trying," I got my head around being the mother of an only child, and I told myself how fortunate I was to have that one healthy, wonderful little boy, and decided not to plan on any more children. Not long after that decision, I became pregnant with my daughter.

Stress is a big inhibitor to conceiving, as you know. So if you can tell yourself that you are fine just as you are, and fortunate to have the good things in your life, see if you can let go of all of the tension you are expressing.

The whole question of modern fertility treatments (donor eggs, donor sperm, IVF, and so on) just didn't exist when horary astrology was invented, so we have to try to simplify questions down to the point where a horary chart would be usable.

Bottom line, is that you want to have a healthy baby, and you wonder if IVF will make that happen. This question lets us put you as the first house, and your hoped-for baby as a 5th house matter. I think everything else only serves to confuse your basic, fundamental question. It's not "either/or" with normal sex with your husband. It's not trying to locate an egg donor in the chart. It's not looking at planets that don't relate to your question and its significators.

With the moon applying to a trine with your sun, I think the key is getting your husband to agree to your having the procedure. The sun is a traditional significator of a woman's husband. Then both the sun and moon apply to a trine with Jupiter.

The 4th house traditionally shows "the end of a matter." I don't think it gets us somewhere we haven't already been, with Saturn ruling the 5th house of children.

You say that, "something must show;" but as I said, this isn't always the case. This chart shows conflicting testimonies. Some charts have considerations against judgement. Sometimes when this happens the chart actually doesn't show the question's true moment in time (which might have been earlier,) sometimes the querent doesn't know or won't say her real question.

But really, Marizkora, you want this decision to be between you, your husband, and doctor. Not based on some amateur astrologers' best guesses.

With all good wishes, W.
Waybread and muchacho I love you ! Muchacho I'm full of negative thoughts and stresssssss.... Waybread you spoke like mother thank you. My natal is awful all barren. This stresses me more. Moon at ASc in Gemini, sun Leo, 5th house has Venus Mars NN and Pluto but the lord is mercury in virgin! Only a Jupiter in cancer . Wherever I turn I see Mercury.
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Unread 07-06-2018, 03:15 PM
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Re: Ivf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marizkora View Post
Waybread and muchacho I love you ! Muchacho I'm full of negative thoughts and stresssssss.... Waybread you spoke like mother thank you. My natal is awful all barren. This stresses me more. Moon at ASc in Gemini, sun Leo, 5th house has Venus Mars NN and Pluto but the lord is mercury in virgin! Only a Jupiter in cancer . Wherever I turn I see Mercury.
All barren signs doesn't have to mean anything. Send me a pm with your birth details and I'll check the vedic chart for you. There we can see your actual potential to have children and also a much more accurate timing.
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Unread 07-06-2018, 06:41 PM
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Re: Ivf

Marizkora, thanks for your kind words.

I wouldn't worry so much about the barren indicators in your natal chart. Mine looks fairly awful, but I did have two healthy children, now adults, and one adorable little grandson.

My 5th house does have Aquarian Mercury, Venus, and the sun, but they are ruled by Saturn in the barren sign of Virgo. My Saturn is in the 12th house (1st in whole signs.) My moon is in Leo, another barren sign, in the 11th house ruled by the moon--in Leo. Mercury has a tiny bit of essential dignity, but the other planets have none. My moon opposes my Mercury-Venus conjunction.

It's OK if you find this difficult to visualize: my main point is that I don't think the old fertility indicators always work today. Probably because most women have much better nutrition, medical care, and sanitary conditions than our foremothers did hundreds of years ago.

I think it's generally true in life that if we want something too badly, we tend to push it away. Medically I think stress does inhibit conception, which may be nature's way of shielding babies from all of the stresses that people had historically, like war, famine, and epidemics.

https://www.babycenter.com/404_can-s...ant_1336350.bc

https://www.webmd.com/infertility-an...ility-stress#1


I hope you can "Let go and let God" emotionally. This doesn't mean not talking to your husband and doctor about IVF, just letting go of all the stress in your own mind. If you don't believe in God, just think of this as letting the universe support you.

With all good wishes, W.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 07-13-2018, 09:48 PM
Marizkora Marizkora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Marizkora, thanks for your kind words.

I wouldn't worry so much about the barren indicators in your natal chart. Mine looks fairly awful, but I did have two healthy children, now adults, and one adorable little grandson.

My 5th house does have Aquarian Mercury, Venus, and the sun, but they are ruled by Saturn in the barren sign of Virgo. My Saturn is in the 12th house (1st in whole signs.) My moon is in Leo, another barren sign, in the 11th house ruled by the moon--in Leo. Mercury has a tiny bit of essential dignity, but the other planets have none. My moon opposes my Mercury-Venus conjunction.

It's OK if you find this difficult to visualize: my main point is that I don't think the old fertility indicators always work today. Probably because most women have much better nutrition, medical care, and sanitary conditions than our foremothers did hundreds of years ago.

I think it's generally true in life that if we want something too badly, we tend to push it away. Medically I think stress does inhibit conception, which may be nature's way of shielding babies from all of the stresses that people had historically, like war, famine, and epidemics.

https://www.babycenter.com/404_can-s...ant_1336350.bc

https://www.webmd.com/infertility-an...ility-stress#1


I hope you can "Let go and let God" emotionally. This doesn't mean not talking to your husband and doctor about IVF, just letting go of all the stress in your own mind. If you don't believe in God, just think of this as letting the universe support you.

With all good wishes, W.
I believe to God more than everything else . I'm grateful to God that I'm until now healthy and I'm trying every day to be better.
I remember when I was a little kid I was praying and I felt that God listened..sometimes felt blessed.
It's the first time that I'm feeling strange and alone.. I had a really bad luck in childbearing and I'm keeping asking why why ... really I have lost my faith in me. But I have still have faith in Him.only.
But then is the age...and feel devastated again..and so on..
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  #17  
Unread 07-14-2018, 05:04 AM
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Re: Ivf

Luke 22:42
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 11-12-2018, 11:36 AM
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Re: Ivf

Ohh god umm not seeing this pregnancy venus is barren .. wtf????
See u are barren
Venus u rejects lord of 5th saturn
Mars is not fertile either
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