what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Evolving717223

Banned
UnluckyGirl said:
I can see your point, it feels like you're talking about emotional intelligence affecting someone's brain's intelligence. However based on so many charts I've seen from people I know (including others' views about them) when Mercury is weak the person is generally considered not smart.
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Well you hit the nail on the head with your interpretation of what I meant, however not sure how the fact that when mercury is weak the person isnt smart contradicts what I said.
 
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UnluckyGirl

Well-known member
Domna said:
My experience is rather the opposite of what you write. My 12th house Virgo Moon has always been the most difficult placement in my chart. My emotional nature is very restrained, almost to the point of repression. Yet I feel very vulnerable towards other people... I absorb and feel their emotions much stronger than my own. I can't remember the last time I got angry, sad or experienced any other strong emotion that was all my own. I cry because someone else is crying and I feel their sadness, not because of my own emotions. This absorbtion of feelings, that I definitely attribute to my Moon in 12th, is why I also blame this position for my other absorbing traits as well.
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You are right about this for blaming your Moon.. Sensing and absorbing others' emotions. But I think your Moon being in Virgo and the opposite house of what Virgo rules makes it even more difficult.

My Moon aspects both Mercury and Neptune (by sextile and trine), Moon is in a house ruled by Neptune and a sign ruled by Mercury, Mercury is in a sign ruled by the Moon, Neptune is in a house ruled by Mercury... There are so many connections between them, so I'll admit that it makes for a very complicated picture and I can't rule out that the Mercury-Neptune opposition influences my tendency to assimilate other people. But yes, for the most part I put the blame on my Moon, the trine to Neptune only increasing the intuitive qualities already present. Wherever these absorbing traits come from though, Pluto is probably a helpful grounding force. Pluto not only trines Mercury, it also sextiles both Moon and Neptune.

Here is the part I disagree for two reasons.
One is that I have met many Piscean in some way Moons (including myself) And they do have good intuition and absorbing their environment's moods and emotions.
However none of them has the tendency to adopt others' people ways of speaking, habits etc.

But the opposite is true for people who have no Neptunian energy at all except of their Mercury (like my mom and aunt) and they have this habit of adopting maybe unconsciously all the stuff you said.

Second reason is that it doesn't make sense to blame a trine and a sextile for giving negative results, especially when there are hard aspects/placements who are stronger than trines and sextiles. Neptune trine Moon is a beautiful asoect to have, your problem seems to be that your Moon a. is in Virgo (not of the best signs for Moon to be) and b. it is in the exact opposite house of the one that is Virgo's natural house which is the 6th H. It's natural for your Virgo Moon to feel uncomfortable in there.


My biggest caveat though is that I have a hard time seeing Neptune as such a negative force. My experience with Neptune is overall so overwhelmingly positive. If Neptune is confusion and passivity then that has definitely been secondary to all the positives I've gained from it, such as creativity, inspiration, imagination, intuition, compassion, artistic talent... Those Neptunian traits mesh perfectly well with my Cancer Mercury. Neptune also affords me some strong rose-colored glasses that have so far only made my life easier and helped me have a positive outlook on life.

It's not a bad thing seeing Neptune as a positive energy. Also the negative traits we were reffering too do not really affect the native per se unless there is confusion of what's real and what's not or bad memory, it just drives other crazy after getting to know them lol.
My friend has Cancer Mercury opposition Neptune too but a Cap Moon. I think I talked about her in my previous replies as an example. She has these traits but she was not aware of them as you are about them. It took a few of people pointing out to her. My mom innthe otherside isn't even aware of it at all even though she is a bit more than 50yo.
 
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UnluckyGirl

Well-known member
Evolving717223 said:
Well you hit the nail on the head with your interpretation of what I meant, however not sure how the fact that when mercury is weak the person isnt smart contradicts what I said.
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not exactly, for example the person may be intuitive and understand things but is not able to express them the right way, or their emotions could cloud/override logic when it's not appropriate. I've seen it work like this: they go with their hard even when sometimes it's obvious to a logic person that they shouldn't do something. So we could say they are kind of deluded by their emotions. This isn't always negative it depends on the circumstances.
 
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watcherofthesouth

Well-known member
I think it depends who is looking at the person and how that person "sees" you. For instance, a Mercury in Pisces (can never find keys, misplaces things), a Capricorn could find that person to be an unorganized head case. For someone else who is less grounded, they may find Mercury in Pisces to be downright brilliant. So it's hard to make a generalization in my opinion. :)
 
Domna

Domna

Well-known member
UnluckyGirl said:
Here is the part I disagree for two reasons.
One is that I have met many Piscean in some way Moons (including myself) And they do have good intuition and absorbing their environment's moods and emotions.
However none of them has the tendency to adopt others' people ways of speaking, habits etc.

But the opposite is true for people who have no Neptunian energy at all except of their Mercury (like my mom and aunt) and they have this habit of adopting maybe unconsciously all the stuff you said.

Second reason is that it doesn't make sense to blame a trine and a sextile for giving negative results, especially when there are hard aspects/placements who are stronger than trines and sextiles. Neptune trine Moon is a beautiful asoect to have, your problem seems to be that your Moon a. is in Virgo (not of the best signs for Moon to be) and b. it is in the exact opposite house of the one that is Virgo's natural house which is the 6th H. It's natural for your Virgo Moon to feel uncomfortable in there.

It's not a bad thing seeing Neptune as a positive energy. Also the negative traits we were reffering too do not really affect the native per se unless there is confusion of what's real and what's not or bad memory, it just drives other crazy after getting to know them lol.
My friend has Cancer Mercury opposition Neptune too but a Cap Moon. I think I talked about her in my previous replies as an example. She has these traits but she was not aware of them as you are about them. It took a few of people pointing out to her. My mom innthe otherside isn't even aware of it at all even though she is a bit more than 50yo.
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I think our views on the 12th house are somewhat different. But then there are many different views on that house, so that's understandable. This is probably not the place to argue about houses... Suffice to say that imo it's an uncomfortable place for the Moon to be in, regardless of sign. That my Moon is in Virgo does add to the issue though, you are right about that.

I guess our main disagreement here is that I don't necessarily see the absorbtion of other peoples habits, speech and such as negative traits... So I see no reason why they couldn't be the result of the trines and sextiles. I used the word blame before, which made it sound like I perceived it as a negative trait, but that was not my meaning. I don't enjoy the absorbtion of emotions and the difficulty I have with expressing my own emotions, but those are Moon issues alone, not related to any other planet. Absorbing habits is a lot more harmless imo. If the absorbtion goes so far as to strip a person completely of their personality and ideas, then it's definitely negative. But I often find that trait to be a positive thing in my life... I carry with me little pieces of people after they are gone. I still keep some habits, expressions and gestures that my grandmother used and now that she is gone I put a huge value on those because they keep her alive and present in everyday life.

I really liked what love-thinking wrote above about extroverted feeling:

love-thinking said:
There's this cognitive function. I think smarter people can use it more efficiently. But I think it's problematic if and when dumb or low IQed people have it in their cognitive stack. Extraverted feeling is a cognitive function in which people slowly divert their thinking/ways accordingly to those people around them. INFJs, ENFJs, ISFJs have this in their cognitive stack. It's not really a sign of being dumb. But it's more so a way they adopt to their environment. In my opinion it's a very neptunian trait.
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I do identify with that an I definitely agree that this trait in itself doesn't really have anything to do with intelligence... but is probably more difficult to handle if you aren't very smart or if you have a low self-awareness. I think it's probable that the cause for it involves more than just Mercury-Neptune in hard aspect, but I don't exactly have any research to base an argument on other than my own chart sono reason to argue further about that.


((As a general aside I don't make too much of a difference between so called hard and soft aspects... Imo the soft aspects are easy flowing and passive while the hard ones are dynamic and active. Both hard and soft aspects can have positive and negative results, though a positive result is more probable with the trines and sextiles since you usually don't have to work much to reap the benefits of those. Dynamic aspects are usually more of an issue in childhood, while we are still developing. If we are aware of the traits they indicate we can usually adapt and turn them to good. It's mostly just when we are ignorant of them that they work in a negative way. That's my experience anyway...))
 
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Evolving717223

Banned
UnluckyGirl said:
not exactly, for example the person may be intuitive and understand things but is not able to express them the right way, or their emotions could cloud/override logic when it's not appropriate. I've seen it work like this: they go with their hard even when sometimes it's obvious to a logic person that they shouldn't do something. So we could say they are kind of deluded by their emotions. This isn't always negative it depends on the circumstances.
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No. Mercury dominated by water and/or fire is less mentally strong.

They aren't deluded by their emotions, because the only way for that to happen is for their moon to be in hard aspect with their mercury, as moon is our emotions whereas mercury is our rational thinking.

Their rational thinking and way of thinking (mercury) is emotional and illogical, it is unorthodox and paradoxical, because their mercury is dominated by water and/or fire.

This is only bad for mercury and their logic is poor. There is no other way to argue it.

However if there moon is dominated by earth, air, or fire, which are all elements that grant emotional strength, this will balance things out, and they will be functioning human beings. I know that might sound cruel but thats just how it is.
 
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conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Not interested in taking part in another one of the 1,000,000 intelligence threads but just wanted to drop by to say that I've not seen any unintelligent nor deficiency in logic or rationality from any of the current crop of posters, and all elements of Mercury are represented. If only astrology were so black and white.

To evolving - Sam Harris, Elon Musk, Richard Dawkins and B.F Skinner have water mercuries. Ever heard of them?
 
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love-thinking

Well-known member
conspiracy theorist said:
Not interested in taking part in another one of the 1,000,000 intelligence threads but just wanted to drop by to say that I've not seen any unintelligent nor deficiency in logic or rationality from any of the current crop of posters, and all elements of Mercury are represented. If only astrology were so black and white.

To evolving - Sam Harris, Elon Musk, Richard Dawkins and B.F Skinner have water mercuries. Ever heard of them?
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Do they have nice aspects to malefics or uranus/saturn?
 
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Evolving717223

Banned
Lykanized said:
Logic/rationality is no means to truth anyway. More power to fire and water Mercuries
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Well you arent denying that mercury is more rational in earth and air, but water and fire mercury are more beneficial anyways? Please stop.

Why would mercury that is dominated by water and fire be better in any way than mercury that is dominated by air and earth?
 
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Evolving717223

Banned
conspiracy theorist said:
Not interested in taking part in another one of the 1,000,000 intelligence threads but just wanted to drop by to say that I've not seen any unintelligent nor deficiency in logic or rationality from any of the current crop of posters, and all elements of Mercury are represented. If only astrology were so black and white.

To evolving - Sam Harris, Elon Musk, Richard Dawkins and B.F Skinner have water mercuries. Ever heard of them?
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So ironic.

What you've failed to realise is that its not about how those peoples mercuries are in water signs that got them where they are, its that there mercuries are well aspected and they have good moon signs to help them socially as well.

This isnt even hard to figure out either lol.
 
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Lykanized

Lykanized

Well-known member
conspiracy theorist said:
Not interested in taking part in another one of the 1,000,000 intelligence threads but just wanted to drop by to say that I've not seen any unintelligent nor deficiency in logic or rationality from any of the current crop of posters, and all elements of Mercury are represented. If only astrology were so black and white.

To evolving - Sam Harris, Elon Musk, Richard Dawkins and B.F Skinner have water mercuries. Ever heard of them?
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You know what? I find it insulting you'd insinuate I don't have a deficiency of logic or rationality :mad:
 
Lykanized

Lykanized

Well-known member
Evolving717223 said:
Well you arent denying that mercury is more rational in earth and air, but water and fire mercury are more beneficial anyways? Please stop.

Why would mercury that is dominated by water and fire be better in any way than mercury that is dominated by air and earth?
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Why are you suddenly getting defensive?
 
conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Evolving717223 said:
So ironic.

What you've failed to realise is that its not about how those peoples mercuries are in water signs that got them where they are, its that there mercuries are well aspected and they have good moon signs to help them socially as well.

This isnt even hard to figure out either lol.
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I think you should take a look at their charts, hotshot. We're not taking about their "sociability" either.

And dial down the bluster. It's not impressing anybody.
 
conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
The rubber hits the road when you read charts. Analyse these 4 charts and their mercury's and explain how they lack in logic and rationality as a result of this condition. Don't tell me about their sociability or emotional strength because that is not what you are advancing with your "argument".
 
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