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Unread 05-20-2020, 03:51 AM
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Jesusistheway Jesusistheway is offline
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Is this the USA birth chart everyone?

I can't tell what hour and min they signed the declaration of independence on July 4...

what do you guys say?

I am not sure about the hour and min again.
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Unread 05-25-2020, 10:25 PM
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Re: Is this the USA birth chart everyone?

IDK, I read a number of different natal charts of the USA and a few countries to assigned signs to them (i.e. France is a Leo). The USA having a sun in Cancer in the 8th, but astrologers gave a sign to the USA as a Gemini or Sagittarius based on our cultural and social characteristics (and an empowered Aries which means the country has a very strong military). The USA does have an Aquarius moon 2 days after a full moon (July 2, 1776) ... and it happens to be my natal sun degree (26' Aquarius conjunct my 20' moon) opposite the true node in 28' Leo (it's thought that France has a 28' Leo sun and my father is from France, but I live in So CA USA).
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Unread 07-06-2020, 05:55 AM
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Re: Is this the USA birth chart everyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesusistheway View Post
I can't tell what hour and min they signed the declaration of independence on July 4...

what do you guys say?

I am not sure about the hour and min again.
Nope, this is the true chart.
I've made four accurate, to the day and what would occur, predictions using it since I figured it out that it is the only chart to use back in March of 2013.
Four correct predictions and no misses. Four for Four.
All four of those predictions are posted here in the forum, in unedited posts, made some months before the dates given.
In two different posts, in two different threads, one in August and again in September of 2012, one of the dates I gave was December 14, 2012... Pluto was conjunct both the USA's natal Part of Termination and the Part of Repression, that day. I gave warning to watch for a 'False Flag' event as the "termination" was about the second amendment, the "repression" was soon to follow.
The carnage at Sandy Hook took place that day.
The USA's natal Part of Termination [Asc. + Uranus - Neptune] is at 07* Capricorn 58' 12". [and please note that Uranus and Neptune are the "Significator" and the "Trigger" for this Part... which kind of stops that, "Uranus and Neptune aren't planets of astrological influence", protest movement to a dead halt, right in its tracks... or, at least one might think that it should've.]

The USA's natal Part of Repression [Asc. + Saturn - Pluto ...and please note that it is a Pluto "triggered" Part, so that kind of derails that whole "Pluto isn't a planet" campaign train, now, doesn't it?] is at 08* Capricorn 42' 41".
The first shot at Sandy Hook, that day, occurred 20 minutes in time before Pluto was in exact conjunction with the USA's Part of Repression. which amounts to one second of a degree in difference.
As it takes Pluto 247.9 years to make a complete orbit around the Sun, wouldn't you say that being within 20 minutes of the precise conjunction r.e. one second of one degree away, is either a very compelling piece of evidence that the chart I use is the real deal, or that I was the luckiest man on Earth that day and should have played every lottery I was able to get a bet on?
....and I've never won any big money on the lottery games even after 36 years of trying.

The other two dates, also given in a post in this forum, were made in October of 2012 [I think it was October, it may have been the month before, or after, of 2012] and they are April 15th, 2013 and April 18th, 2013.
Uranus was conjunct the USA's natal Part of Transformation [Asc. + Uranus - Mars ... and please note that the Part of Transformation is a Uranus ""Significator" Part. Which kind of derails that whole "Uranus isn't a Planet of Astrological effect', campaign train now, doesn't it? ... or at the least, should have.]on April 15th, and it was conjunct the USA's natal Part of Liberty, aka Part of Personal Liberty, on April 18th.
On April 15th, 2013 there was the bombing of the Boston Marathon and on the 18th near martial law was declared in Boston as the manhunt for the two alleged conspirators was on full tilt...not a civilian was on the streets...only law enforcement personnel.

The birth of the United States as a nation wasn't a physical birth as like that of a biological woman giving birth to a child, but rather it was a birth in the collective minds of the citizens of those 13 colonies
The agreement was that as of July 4th, 1776, the thirteen colonies were henceforth, from then on, 13 united States. The agreement was made a couple of days before July 4th, 1776... it doesn't matter when one got the news, heard the announcement, as like that of a child born to a biological woman...j because it doesn't matter as to when you get the birth announcement, the childs' birth time, and place, aren't changed.

The Sabian Symbols for the USA's natal birth chart, i.e. the "WHO", "WHERE-TO", "HOW", AND "WHY" are spot on descriptive of what the nation was born as [the "WHO"] in the minds of its founders and as to how it developed [the "HOW"] and what it eventually became [the "WHERE-TO"]....as to "WHY", I find no fault in that Sabian Symbol, either.... and, OH that Part of Fortunes' Sabian Symbol... spot on, BULLSEYE, it is the description of the term, "Manifest Destiny" of the USA, for the USA.

Then, there's the timeline for the entire period of the Civil War... it's a cavalcade of corroborating evidence in the planetary aspects to the natal chart and the astrological Parts that were activated by the transiting planets at the time. It's really fascinating, mind boggling, almost overwhelmingly so... given what all was of Astrological effect to and by the USA's natal chart

I've hesitated to write a complete account of it as for the reason fellow member, Phoenix Venus, wishes to write a treatise, possibly a book, on the subject, and I don't want spoil it, or steal Her thunder.... even though I did produce the natal chart and gave the proof for its authenticity.
...but here's a little taste, a preview

...but if some of you members still refuse to accept it... [or maybe it's because you just can't recognize it?... but that would be pathetic.]

The USA's natal Part of Race & Racial Consciousness [aka Part of Galvanization, Asc. + Moon - Pluto] is at 10* Taurus 45' 14".
At the beginning of 1861 [the Civil War began on April 12, 1861] Pluto was at 07* Taurus 36' in retrograde. On April 12, 1861 Pluto was direct at 08* Taurus 35'. On June 14, 1861, Pluto, in direct motion, was within a one degree orb of conjunction to the Part of Race & Racial Consciousness at 09* Taurus 45'. Pluto went retrograde on August 9, 1861 at 10* Taurus 27'. It went beyond a one degree orb, in retrograde, on October 18, 1861.

At the beginning of 1862, on January 1, Pluto was at 08* Taurus 34'. It got within a one degree orb of conjunction, again, while in direct motion on April 23, 1862. It was exactly conjunct the Part on June 8, 1862. Pluto was still within a one degree orb of conjunction to the Part on August 10, 1862 when it went retrograde again.

On January 1, 1863, Pluto was still in retrograde at 09* Taurus 31' [just a bit beyond a one deg. orb.] It went direct again on January 24, 1863 at 09* Taurus 25' and was exactly conjunct the Part of Race & Racial Consciousness, again, on April 26, 1863. Pluto went retrograde on August 12, 1863 at 12* Taurus 20' and was exactly conjunct the Part, once again, on December 8, 1863.

At the beginning of 1864, on January 1, Pluto was at 10* Taurus 28' in retrograde. It went direct on January 24, at 10* Taurus 22'. Pluto went retrograde that year on August 12, at 13* Taurus 17'.

On January 1, 1865, Pluto was still retrograde at 11* Taurus 25', which was well within a one degree orb of conjunction to the Part of Race & Racial Consciousness. Pluto went direct again, on January 24, at 11* Taurus 19'.
On the day history books say the American Civil War ended, April 9, 1865 [although there were battles still fought in some parts of the country for months yet to come] Pluto was at 12* Taurus 12'... Mercury was at 09* Taurus 40' by the end of that day. Venus had been exactly conjunct that Part on March 16th, 1865, would go retrograde on April 16th and conjunct the Part again, in retrograde, on May 21, 1865... and conjunct once more in direct motion on June 7, 1865.

Now about the USA's Part of Retribution {Asc. + Sun - Mars] it happens to be at 13* Taurus 14' 47" ...and what the Union subjected the former Confederate States after the war was RETRIBUTION in all caps.

That's just what Pluto happened to be doing during the American Civil War... but, of course, one nust accept the real natal chart of the USA to be able to see it all for themselves. I have all the Astrological Parts derived from the USA's natal chart posted in a "Sticky" thread in the Astrological Parts sub-forum... which makes the study go so much smoother and swifter for anyone that wishes to take the time to do the timeline study and see for them selves...

...and, OH... I almost forgot to state what the data exactly is for the USA's true natal chart. I call it 'The Zero Hour" chart. Because it is cast for the first second of July 4, 1776, i.e. 12:00:01 a.m., Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

You might want to read my analysis of the Sabian Symbols for the charts' axis, it's in a thread n the mundane sub forum... posted back in March, or April, of 2013.

The USA natal chart, r.e. "The Zero Hour" chart.

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Last edited by piercethevale; 07-06-2020 at 08:23 AM. Reason: punctuation, spelling and clarity
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  #4  
Unread 07-06-2020, 06:03 AM
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Re: Is this the USA birth chart everyone?

PLEASE NOTE THAT THE ABOVE CHART IS THE VERY FIRST ONE I EVER CAST AND AT THE TIME i USED 12:00:00 A.M. I'VE SINCE THEN COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE DAY DOESN'T ACTUALLY BEGIN UNTIL IT IS JUST AFTER THAT TIME. SO i HAVE USED A TIME OF 12:0:01 EVER SINCE THEN. IT'S JUST THAT i'M USING A DIFFERENT COMPUTER PRESENTLY AND IT DOESN'T HAVE A COPY OF THE 12:00:01 IN ITS FILES...JUST THE ORIGINAL.
THANK YOU, ptv
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Last edited by piercethevale; 07-06-2020 at 08:13 AM. Reason: spelling
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Unread 07-08-2020, 06:06 PM
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Re: Is this the USA birth chart everyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesusistheway View Post
I can't tell what hour and min they signed the declaration of independence on July 4...

what do you guys say?

I am not sure about the hour and min again.
I should have mentioned straight off, in my post above, that the Declaration of Independence was signed by all on July 2, 1776. But they all agreed to not make the announcement until July 4th, as they wanted to get the word out simultaneously that had to be sent ahead on horseback, a couple of days ride to the furthest colonies from Philadelphia. So the agreement was that all would post on July 4th.

One might say the mother started having contractions on July 2nd, but the birth wasn't until July 4th.
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Last edited by piercethevale; 07-08-2020 at 06:09 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 07-09-2020, 06:25 AM
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Re: Is this the USA birth chart everyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post


I should have mentioned straight off, in my post above, that the Declaration of Independence was signed by all on July 2, 1776. But they all agreed to not make the announcement until July 4th, as they wanted to get the word out simultaneously that had to be sent ahead on horseback, a couple of days ride to the furthest colonies from Philadelphia. So the agreement was that all would post on July 4th.

One might say the mother started having contractions on July 2nd, but the birth wasn't until July 4th.


astrologer Nina Gryphon joins Chris Brennan
podcast discussing the question of

what is the correct birth chart for the United States
and
review some of the different possible horoscopes
that are available.
While this sounds like a simple question
there are actually a number of different birth dates
and birth times
that are possible candidates
for the founding of the United States as country
and
each of these options yield slightly
or
sometimes extremely different
planetary placements.

This podast provides a broad overview of the issue
and reviews different charts that have been used
or proposed by astrologers
at different points in time.
Most of the research for this episode was compiled by Nina
we also wanted to give a special shout-out
to astrologer Gary Lorentzen for his contributions and advice
as well as the AstroDatabank entry on the chart of the US
and Nicholas Campion's Book of World Horoscopes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPMj_DC--gw


.
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Unread 07-09-2020, 07:54 AM
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CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
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Arrow Re: Is this the USA birth chart everyone?

I tend to go by the Parans of natal 13' Cancer on Descendant. The last July 4th when the Moon and Saturn are in Capricorn, the lunar eclipse is in 15' Cap and they're in the first house. On July 2, 1776, a full moon is in 15' Capricorn then on the 4th it was in 26' Aquarius, therefore in the 2nd house in aspect to the natal Saturn in 14' Libra in the 10th, exact squares to the sun and the moon.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 07-14-2020, 07:28 AM
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Re: Is this the USA birth chart everyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
I tend to go by the Parans of natal 13' Cancer on Descendant. The last July 4th when the Moon and Saturn are in Capricorn, the lunar eclipse is in 15' Cap and they're in the first house. On July 2, 1776, a full moon is in 15' Capricorn then on the 4th it was in 26' Aquarius, therefore in the 2nd house in aspect to the natal Saturn in 14' Libra in the 10th, exact squares to the sun and the moon.
First off, it's rather confusing as to what you are referring to regarding positions as it seems that you may be using the grammatical mark of an apostrophe for that of the character symbol of a degree. As the apostrophe mark is also used as the character symbol for degree minutes being the reason this usage of yours compounds confusion as to what you might be exactly referring to. If your keyboard and software is incapable of producing the character symbol for a degree then might I suggest that you use that for the asterisk as I, and many others, use instead?

Secondly Saturn was far from 14* Libra on July 4, 1776 as you can see from the chart I provided above. [Late Edit. My bad...you were correct. I had pulled the wrong chart from my files for reference rather than look at the image above.]

Thirdly, the Moon was at 16* Aquar 49' at midnight, the very beginning of that day of July 4, 1776 and by half past the hour it was in the following degree. By my rough estimate it would've been around 7 p.m. that night when it was at 26* Aquarius and as you can see by the chart I provide that the Sun was at 12* Cancer 38' and by the very end of that day it was at 13* Cancer 36' and if Saturn had been at 14* Libra, which it wasn't, [Again, I apologize for my mistake. Saturn was at 14* Libra 47' to 14* Libra 49' that day] it might have been permissible to call it an exact square to the Sun, as long as it was within a one degree orb, but outside of that it is merely a conjunction.

Lastly, one must account for 244 years of Sidereal precession to make any considerations towards present ephemeral activity aspecting a natal chart for the USA... otherwise you're merely grasping at ghost images. I don't have the present exact adjustment necessary handy at this moment but it is somewhere in the neighborhood of plus 3 degrees and 25 minutes, if I remember correctly?

but as not all astrologers ascribe to the belief that adjustment to the Sidereal precession should be accounted for when dealing with older natal charts, it's understandable if that is your position on the matter?

As the rate of precession is at present approximation one degree every seventy one and a half years I even add nearly a degree to all my natal chart positions being that I'm now over 67 years of age.

A descendant at 13* Cancer would have occurred at 7:25 p.m. to 7:29 p.m. on the night of July 4, 1776 and the Moon during those four minutes was at from 28* Aquarius 32' to 28* Aquarius 34' and not at 26* Aquarius as you wrote. Yet if the true node at 28* Leo you wrote of happens to be your natal node, then you are correct sir in regards to that statement, that a Moon at the point of 28* Aquar. would indeed be in exact opposition.

For the life of me though, I haven't the least idea why anyone would believe the birth of the United States occurred at around 7:30 p.m. that night of July 4th, to begin with? All the more so after studying the chart I provided and the preponderance of evidence to the fact it is the true natal chart that it provides?
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Last edited by piercethevale; 07-14-2020 at 08:28 AM.
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Unread 07-14-2020, 08:41 AM
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Re: Is this the USA birth chart everyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
astrologer Nina Gryphon joins Chris Brennan
podcast discussing the question of

what is the correct birth chart for the United States
and
review some of the different possible horoscopes
that are available.
While this sounds like a simple question
there are actually a number of different birth dates
and birth times
that are possible candidates
for the founding of the United States as country
and
each of these options yield slightly
or
sometimes extremely different
planetary placements.

This podast provides a broad overview of the issue
and reviews different charts that have been used
or proposed by astrologers
at different points in time.
Most of the research for this episode was compiled by Nina
we also wanted to give a special shout-out
to astrologer Gary Lorentzen for his contributions and advice
as well as the AstroDatabank entry on the chart of the US
and Nicholas Campion's Book of World Horoscopes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPMj_DC--gw


.
Thank you but I am quite convinced of the chart I contend is the true natal chart...did I mention I've made three perfectly accurate predictions using that chart that are all posted here in the forum, and made months prior to the events? I believe I have a number of times, but perhaps you missed them all?

As to regarding Chris Brennan... really? The one that is a graduate of that brief existing college of Astrology that was somewhere iin the Northwest of the USA but only lasted about four years? One of the, so called, "Young Astrologers", and now not quite so young anymore, but all the same still preaching he same OLD Traditional Astrology... nothing young or new about it?
You mean that Chris Brennan?
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Last edited by piercethevale; 07-14-2020 at 08:44 AM.
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Unread 07-14-2020, 08:53 AM
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Re: Is this the USA birth chart everyone?

I know this isn't he degree symbols sub-forum but you all just don't seem to understand that the Sabian Symbols ARE THE REAL DEAL. If a chart doesn't jibe with the Sabian Symbols, it ain't squat...imho of course.

...and how many times have I, and Phoenix Venus, provided proof that the Astrological Parts can certainly be utilized for prediction? ...besides rectifying at least more than a dozen former titles given some of them and providing a true explanation as to what the Part of Hyleg is really all about and without a knowledge and belief in the Sabian Symbols you will never comprehend it... and without said knowledge and belief you won't hardly get anywhere as to understanding the nature of Zodiacal activity.

I think I will go ahead and do that thorough analysis of the American Civil War here in the forum after all.
Look for it in the near future in the Astrological Parts sub-forum.

Until then...
ptv
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Unread 07-16-2020, 02:45 AM
Bjorkstrand Bjorkstrand is offline
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Re: Is this the USA birth chart everyone?

for the upteenth time
usa
4 july 1776
philadelphia
11:08 am


source= john adams book by david mccullough page 136, "about 11 am"
libra rising
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