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  #1  
Unread 06-24-2020, 12:43 AM
clip11 clip11 is offline
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Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

People say that Saturn in your chart helps you build character. So that justifies all of the hardships that it brings. But after you "build character" what then? Can you buy anything or get anything tangible with your newly built character. Its like working a hard job, but for monopoly money. Something that at the end of the day is worthless.

So how can any of the difficulties that Saturn bring be justified if there is no tangible reward at the end? It can't be unless you count reaching around and patting yourself on the back as a reward. So Saturn wants to "teach you patience", so what? What benefit does having more patience do for you? What can you buy with it? Can I trade it for goods and services? Do I get a harem of young women for my patience? If no, how am I or anyone else better off for "Saturn's lessons"?

That's why I call Saturn the devil's planet.

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Unread 06-25-2020, 09:09 AM
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Smile Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

It's not what you get for obeying Saturn's dictates. It's what happens to you if you don't obey them!
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Unread 06-26-2020, 03:44 AM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

I think your concept of "reward" is too limiting. Life owes you nothing. Life is inherently unfair. Start with the principle that you actually have no entitlements.

A "harem of young women"?? Please. You'll be lucky to have one lasting, loving relationship. Saturn teaches emotional maturity.

When you face tough times and have no money, Saturn shows you how to live frugally and get by with what you have.

When your loved one leaves and your friends aren't available, Saturn shows you how to enjoy the gifts of solitude.

Patience is a valuable virtue when instant gratification isn't going to happen.

Saturn rewards his apt pupils later in life. Saturn rules old age. So start saving now, read up on compound interest, and manage your money for the long haul.
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 06-26-2020, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I think your concept of "reward" is too limiting. Life owes you nothing. Life is inherently unfair. Start with the principle that you actually have no entitlements.

A "harem of young women"?? Please. You'll be lucky to have one lasting, loving relationship. Saturn teaches emotional maturity.

When you face tough times and have no money, Saturn shows you how to live frugally and get by with what you have.

When your loved one leaves and your friends aren't available, Saturn shows you how to enjoy the gifts of solitude.

Patience is a valuable virtue when instant gratification isn't going to happen.

Saturn rewards his apt pupils later in life. Saturn rules old age. So start saving now, read up on compound interest, and manage your money for the long haul.
What good is having a lot of money when you're old and your body is breaking down? Even if I got rich at 80 years old, so what when there are people who are rich at 20 or 30 years old, whether or not they earn it and live happy lives and still get to be old. Plus, what will you do with wealth at that age if you can't buy back your youth with some of it? Buy a top of the line coffin and decked out mausoleum?


And when you say life owes you nothing, I'll pass that message onto sick children at St. Judes Hospital and starving kids in Africa, they'll be happy to hear it. "What's that little Billy, you have childhood leukemia?? Stop complaining! Life owes you nothing! You're not owed good health even though 99.999 percent of kids your age are perfectly healthy. Suck it up and pull yourself up by your bootstraps!! You're not owed good health!"

Saturn is the devil incarnate in astrology.

Last edited by clip11; 06-26-2020 at 04:38 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 06-27-2020, 03:34 AM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

clip, do you mind saying how old you are?

I ask because you write like someone without a lot of life experience.

You seem to inhabit a fantasy world, where you are entitled to get what you want when you want it. Very unrealistic. Life does not owe you immediate gratification.

None of us has entitlements in this world. We may have been born to a life of privilege but that doesn't mean we get to keep it.

No, you are not owed good health. If you are healthy, count your blessings.

You are not entitled to a ripe old age.

Children living with illness and poverty know full well that life isn't fair. They wish it were otherwise, but blaming Saturn is totally irrelevant to their needs. Maybe you'd like to go to medical school and become a pediatrician, or become an aid worker in famine-stricken areas. That would be more helpful than thinking life owes you a harem of young women (who presumably can make up their own minds about whether they would want to do that with you.)

Have you ever priced out what it costs an 80-year old to live in a decent nursing home (today usually called "assisted living.") Unless you live in a country where nursing homes are government-subsidized, they are extremely expensive.

Wealthy seniors have the option of donating generously to hospitals for sick children and overseas famine relief. They may plan to leave their children with an inheritance.

When you get too old to work, you better hope you can support yourself with a pension, savings, or kids who care about you.

You seem very prejudiced against the elderly.

Think about your values. What are they? Are they entirely materialistic and hedonistic, or do you hope to be of benefit to other people.

But you go right ahead and think of Saturn as the devil. See how well that works for you.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 06-27-2020 at 03:37 AM.
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  #6  
Unread 06-27-2020, 04:13 AM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by clip11 View Post
People say that Saturn in your chart helps you build character. So that justifies all of the hardships that it brings. But after you "build character" what then? Can you buy anything or get anything tangible with your newly built character. Its like working a hard job, but for monopoly money. Something that at the end of the day is worthless.

So how can any of the difficulties that Saturn bring be justified if there is no tangible reward at the end? It can't be unless you count reaching around and patting yourself on the back as a reward. So Saturn wants to "teach you patience", so what? What benefit does having more patience do for you? What can you buy with it? Can I trade it for goods and services? Do I get a harem of young women for my patience? If no, how am I or anyone else better off for "Saturn's lessons"?

That's why I call Saturn the devil's planet.
That's also why so many others call Saturn the same thing. Heck, in tarot the Devil card is Saturn.

Everything you're saying is thoroughly Saturn. You must be in an extremely Saturn moment.

There are other planets, too. That's what keeps Saturn in check, in the big picture. Every planet checks the others.

A small dose of Saturn could be beneficial, if everything else is making you flighty and noncommittal and not get anything done. Then that small dose of Saturn brings some discipline and stick-to-it-iveness. But too much Saturn is exactly what you're describing. It's not beneficial at that point. You need a dose of something else to help balance it.
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  #7  
Unread 06-28-2020, 04:22 AM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

Traditionally Saturn ruled most of the bad stuff that happened to people. That's what Saturn was for in a horoscope. The 12th house (and to a lesser extent, Mars, the 8th and 6th houses) pretty much ruled the bad stuff that was left.

This pessimism began to change with modern astrology. I highly recommend Liz Greene's book, Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil.

Saturn is my wisest planetary teacher. Learn his lessons, and you can get through much of what life throws at you.

When Life Isn't Fair, Saturn gives you strength to get through the unfairness. When you're broke, Saturn gives you the resourcefulness and resilience to get through the hard times.

Incidentally, I have had some Saturnian days recently. We just bought a "new" (to us) house in a 55+ community, in need of extensive renovations, including the landscaping. I spent days clearing out overgrown juniper shrubs, and pruning the 4 survivors according to Japanese garden principles (as I understand them.) The work was physically strenuous, hot, sweaty, and prickly. 3 pickup truck loads of branches to go to the dump. Very Saturn. Saturn rules hard work and old age.

But we recently had several neighbours tell us how much they appreciated the work we were doing. (A rough-looking yard affects the neighbours' property values, as well as their sense of aesthetics.) One man brought us a bottle of wine to welcome us to the neighborhood.

This may seem like a small reward, but Saturn deals with the long-term time frame. Good will from one's neighbours, especially in a small town like ours, counts for a great deal.

The other reward is seeing how an overgrown mass of shrubs can become a beautiful garden that lifts the soul.

So no, Saturn isn't the planet of get-rich-quick, or feel-good-now. Its message is more, put the hard work in now, and rewards will come later.

Saturn is in it for the long haul.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 06-28-2020 at 04:27 AM.
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  #8  
Unread 07-04-2020, 07:09 AM
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CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

The USA's Saturn Return (every 29 some years, now in 2020), the great teacher instructs the USA a very important lesson on what's happening, and a need to change the status quo to survive and renew itself as a nation.

From Ground Zero with Clyde Lewis (a radio program about the paranormal):
Some astrologers feel that on the date of the birth of the United States, July 4th, we are entering a Saturn Return where great changes are going to happen in the hexagonal matrix. Nostradamus warns that the beast is revealed in the Iron Sky and invasion is guaranteed, creating the blood rain. On this Independence Day, it is time to look to the moon as its eclipse is an omen to nations.


Saturn returns: 1776.50 divided by 2020.50 over a span of 244.00 years = every 30.50 years in the US, usually Saturn makes a 29.60 year orbit around the sun, there were 8 Saturnian returns - the last one in Capricorn in Jan 1990.

Saturn returns in US history starting with July 4, 1776 (America's natal saturn in 14' 47' or near 15' Libra on Dec 4, 2010) might predicted the decade from 2011-20 to move from the radical liberal Obama to radical conservative Trump eras. The current Saturn placement is in 29' 50 or near 30' Capricorn on the cusp with Aquarius, also in retrograde instead of moving direct at this time.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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  #9  
Unread 07-04-2020, 07:33 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
The USA's Saturn Return (every 29 some years, now in 2020), the great teacher instructs the USA a very important lesson on what's happening, and a need to change the status quo to survive and renew itself as a nation.

From Ground Zero with Clyde Lewis (a radio program about the paranormal):
Some astrologers feel that on the date of the birth of the United States, July 4th, we are entering a Saturn Return where great changes are going to happen in the hexagonal matrix. Nostradamus warns that the beast is revealed in the Iron Sky and invasion is guaranteed, creating the blood rain. On this Independence Day, it is time to look to the moon as its eclipse is an omen to nations.


Saturn returns: 1776.50 divided by 2020.50 over a span of 244.00 years = every 30.50 years in the US, usually Saturn makes a 29.60 year orbit around the sun, there were 8 Saturnian returns - the last one in Capricorn in Jan 1990.

Saturn returns in US history starting with July 4, 1776 (America's natal saturn in 14' 47' or near 15' Libra on Dec 4, 2010) might predicted the decade from 2011-20 to move from the radical liberal Obama to radical conservative Trump eras. The current Saturn placement is in 29' 50 or near 30' Capricorn on the cusp with Aquarius, also in retrograde instead of moving direct at this time.
I just don't see Saturn as a wise teacher. Not sure how that idea got started.
With Saturn, you have to learn from experience. Saturn forces one to "learn the lesson or die." So Saturn alerts one to an incoming bummer experience, that will leave one "sadder but wiser", if one can survive it. I wouldn't call that "teaching" , because it's just testing.
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Unread 07-04-2020, 08:07 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

Okay, first day in school and in walks Saturn, who "teaches" the class. Saturn proceeds to pass out the final exams, and says "Try your best and just hope it's good enough!", then leaves you to learn on your own.

Last edited by david starling; 07-04-2020 at 08:24 AM.
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  #11  
Unread 07-04-2020, 03:03 PM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

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Originally Posted by clip11 View Post
People say that Saturn in your chart helps you build character. So that justifies all of the hardships that it brings. But after you "build character" what then? Can you buy anything or get anything tangible with your newly built character. Its like working a hard job, but for monopoly money. Something that at the end of the day is worthless.

So how can any of the difficulties that Saturn bring be justified if there is no tangible reward at the end? It can't be unless you count reaching around and patting yourself on the back as a reward. So Saturn wants to "teach you patience", so what? What benefit does having more patience do for you? What can you buy with it? Can I trade it for goods and services? Do I get a harem of young women for my patience? If no, how am I or anyone else better off for "Saturn's lessons"?

That's why I call Saturn the devil's planet.
Looks like your mind is already made up against Saturn and character building in general because your objective is to get "anything tangible" like "goods and services". What you need to understand is that the tangible is not without the untangible. How you approach something tangible and carry it out will have to do with the untangible - your character and attitude. That could help you achieve better tangible results - like a higher position in your job, which gets you more pay.

In my own opinion, and on a slightly different but relevant note, since we are speaking of Saturn - known as the planet of karma - I believe life is very fair - because I completely believe in reincarnation. I am not going to lecture here on that, but I will tell you that for those that have little idea about it, it s very worth researching and putting in effort to really understand that concept. Not many understand it and hence just condemn Saturn or life in general.
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Unread 07-04-2020, 11:08 PM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

Tonight, the lunar eclipse has Jupiter and again, Saturn form a visible triangle.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/202...ight/24545796/

Pluto is invisible in the triangle, but this stellium squares Mars in Aries.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 07-05-2020, 01:30 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

WHY did ancient astrologers label Saturn "the Greater Malefic", instead of a "helpful teacher"?
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Unread 07-05-2020, 02:58 AM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

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WHY did ancient astrologers label Saturn "the Greater Malefic", instead of a "helpful teacher"?
They had a fatalistic view of life that pre-dated astrology. The Greeks believed in the Three Fates long before they learned about astrology. There was't much upward mobility. If there was no point in trying to change your fate, the best thing you could do was to be stoic about it. Saturn stood in for most of the bad things that happened to people.

Or maybe they didn't figure it out as brilliantly as I did.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 07-05-2020, 03:38 AM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

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WHY did ancient astrologers label Saturn "the Greater Malefic", instead of a "helpful teacher"?
One simple answer to that is that before Saturn can be seen as a helpful teacher, it pulls you mercilessly through the mud first and teaches the lessons often in quite a lingering painful and tough manner. And this is quite true too and nothing deterministic about it. Of course all that helps in building one's character, but it does mean going through some rough stuff first, doesn't it?

Saturn is hard and harsh and that is how its effects are felt. Saturn rules everything that is hard and dark too, from the larger bones of the body to coal mines. Saturn also is connected with the aged and old age, in turn, is connected with suffering, limitations and decay. Saturn also rules chronic diseases, those that take long to heal and bring about a lot of pain and suffering, since they are chronic.

Saturn is connected with authority, but not in a benevolent manner like the Sun, rather in a despotic manner. For instance, it rules the career or work, which means there is a certain regimentation and discipline to adhere to. Saturn is the stern boss that will fire you if you don't regularly show up at work. Saturn is not the benevolent, radiant king - like the Sun.

Saturn also behaves authoritatively, like a principal, that punishes one for one's wrongdoings - hence it is known as the planet of karma.

Saturn is dark, cold and dry. Obviously this also has to do with it being far away from the Sun from an astronomical point of view. I do Western Astrology, but I find the teachings and reasoning of Jyotish Astrology more apt (and I hope that I can someday be disciplined enough to properly learn it). Saturn (Shani) was the estranged son of the Sun (Surya). Not sure if you are interested in Jyotish Astrology at all, so will not bore you with it, but if you are, you can read about it on the net to get some background on Shani/Saturn.
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Last edited by aquarius7000; 07-05-2020 at 02:20 PM.
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  #16  
Unread 07-05-2020, 03:51 AM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

My experiences of Saturn are more benign.

Natally I have Saturn in Virgo opposite sun in Aquarius. It's wide and out-of-sign, but Saturn in an opposition to the sun is always retrograde. By progression, my Saturn moved into Leo and continues to inch closer.

In most quadrant house systems, my Saturn is in the 12th house, wherein it joys. Planets opposite one's sun can be construed as enemies, but usually it is more helpful to consider what they are there to teach us.

Then Saturn is the traditional ruler of Aquarius. (I look at both modern and traditional rulers.) With my Mercury in Aquarius, Saturn and Mercury are in mutual reception.

Basically I've lived with the stern teacher all my life.

As astrologer Steven Forrest put it, no planet is in the sky just to hurt us.

Think of Saturn as a coach training an Olympic athlete. The coach can't be all nicey-nice. The coach's job is to get the athlete through grueling hours of training and lesser competitions in order to prepare for the Olympics. It's like tough love.

So there are ways in which the Old Man interacts in a chart making it more beneficial, even as it remains a strict task master.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 07-05-2020, 04:09 AM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

Just one other point.

Saturn (or any planet) is actually not "out there" apart from ourselves. Which is possibly why Steven Forrest called his first book The Inner Sky. We are all of the planets in our horoscopes. To dislike a planet is to dislike a part of ourselves that the planet represents.

We can either (1) own our Saturn and exemplify its positive traits; (2) exemplify its negative traits; or (3) deny and suppress it within ourselves. But the chart must manifest in some fashion. In which case, we are likely to attract unlovely Saturnine people into our lives.

I recommend option #1.

The essence of the positive face of Saturn is self-discipline.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 07-05-2020, 04:57 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

Handled poorly, Saturn's influence on the Chart is decidedly malefic.
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Unread 07-05-2020, 02:27 PM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

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Handled poorly, Saturn's influence on the Chart is decidedly malefic.
Saturn also is the planet of karma, so it will come back to bite you and make you pay for what you did. We don't like that part, do we? Hence also why people call it malefic. You see, astrologers of yore termed it malefic, but our contemporary astrologers still shudder when Saturn sits on one of the personal planets. The effects are seldom pleasant. So whilst we might have got rid of the word malefic more or less, our understanding of Saturn is not very different, but we have become more eloquent as to how we describe it these days
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Unread 07-06-2020, 04:12 AM
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Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

But isn't that thesis that "what goes around comes around" entirely predictable? We know that what we give out is what we get back, multiplied. Which is why Saturn's strongest lesson is self-discipline. There's nothing evil in that. It merely acknowledges predictable consequences of actions. Saturn isn't out to get us.

It's not a question of being more articulate, but a question of understanding the probable consequences of our actions.


(The unpredictable events are more Uranian.)
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 07-06-2020, 04:49 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

Saturn is the "bearer of bad tidings". A modern analogy would be Saturn as the "check-engine" light on the vehicle. The warning light didn't cause the problem, but it lets you know that if you don't get it repaired, your vehicle is headed for a breakdown with possibly disastrous consequences. Ignoring what Saturn is telling you is like putting tape over the light, and acting like everything is fine. No sense "hating the messenger"; but, sooner or later, when the "grim reaper" tells you that your "time is almost up", best to put your affairs in order (while you still can).

Last edited by david starling; 07-06-2020 at 05:11 AM.
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Unread 07-06-2020, 05:42 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn

I have to admit that I, myself, find it difficult to avoid blaming Saturn as the cause of misfortune, rather than correctly dreading the correlations that are synchronized to its placements and transits.
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Unread 07-07-2020, 12:51 AM
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clip, do you mind saying how old you are?

I ask because you write like someone without a lot of life experience.

You seem to inhabit a fantasy world, where you are entitled to get what you want when you want it. Very unrealistic. Life does not owe you immediate gratification.

None of us has entitlements in this world. We may have been born to a life of privilege but that doesn't mean we get to keep it.

No, you are not owed good health. If you are healthy, count your blessings.

You are not entitled to a ripe old age.

Children living with illness and poverty know full well that life isn't fair. They wish it were otherwise, but blaming Saturn is totally irrelevant to their needs. Maybe you'd like to go to medical school and become a pediatrician, or become an aid worker in famine-stricken areas. That would be more helpful than thinking life owes you a harem of young women (who presumably can make up their own minds about whether they would want to do that with you.)

Have you ever priced out what it costs an 80-year old to live in a decent nursing home (today usually called "assisted living.") Unless you live in a country where nursing homes are government-subsidized, they are extremely expensive.

Wealthy seniors have the option of donating generously to hospitals for sick children and overseas famine relief. They may plan to leave their children with an inheritance.

When you get too old to work, you better hope you can support yourself with a pension, savings, or kids who care about you.

You seem very prejudiced against the elderly.

Think about your values. What are they? Are they entirely materialistic and hedonistic, or do you hope to be of benefit to other people.

But you go right ahead and think of Saturn as the devil. See how well that works for you.
How am I "prejudiced against the elderly"? I'm just pointing out the reality that it's better to be rich at 30 than at 80, at least that would be the opinion of most sane people.

People like to say "life doesn't owe you x" but let's be serious, people don't really operate like that. Next time a Governor or President is running for reelection and their voting base is complaining about the lack of good paying, middle class job opportunities, I want to hear that candidate tell them "life doesn't owe you middle class jobs. Go work at McDonald's for minimum wage and if you can't make it, tough ****".

All my life is is a shitty *** job and hard work and more hard work that gets me absolutely nowhere. So yes I hate my life and sometimes wish i was never born. I've done everything right in life but have nothing to show for it. But there are sex traffickers who do all sorts of vile things and they are handsomely rewarded with everything I would love to have. But then people gaslight you by talking about how they "aren't really happy". Really?
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  #24  
Unread 07-07-2020, 12:55 AM
clip11 clip11 is offline
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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
That's also why so many others call Saturn the same thing. Heck, in tarot the Devil card is Saturn.

Everything you're saying is thoroughly Saturn. You must be in an extremely Saturn moment.

There are other planets, too. That's what keeps Saturn in check, in the big picture. Every planet checks the others.

A small dose of Saturn could be beneficial, if everything else is making you flighty and noncommittal and not get anything done. Then that small dose of Saturn brings some discipline and stick-to-it-iveness. But too much Saturn is exactly what you're describing. It's not beneficial at that point. You need a dose of something else to help balance it.
I have my sun in Capricorn, Saturn on my IC, Saturn in Sag opposing my midheaven and Chiron. Saturn square my ascendant, Saturn square my Mars and Jupiter in the 6th & 7th house and I have a stellium in the 4th with Saturn conjunct my stellium. And Saturn conjunct Uranus and moon in Sag. I thought Saturn got better after the Saturn return but i see it doesn't.
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  #25  
Unread 07-07-2020, 12:59 AM
clip11 clip11 is offline
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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Traditionally Saturn ruled most of the bad stuff that happened to people. That's what Saturn was for in a horoscope. The 12th house (and to a lesser extent, Mars, the 8th and 6th houses) pretty much ruled the bad stuff that was left.

This pessimism began to change with modern astrology. I highly recommend Liz Greene's book, Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil.

Saturn is my wisest planetary teacher. Learn his lessons, and you can get through much of what life throws at you.

When Life Isn't Fair, Saturn gives you strength to get through the unfairness. When you're broke, Saturn gives you the resourcefulness and resilience to get through the hard times.

Incidentally, I have had some Saturnian days recently. We just bought a "new" (to us) house in a 55+ community, in need of extensive renovations, including the landscaping. I spent days clearing out overgrown juniper shrubs, and pruning the 4 survivors according to Japanese garden principles (as I understand them.) The work was physically strenuous, hot, sweaty, and prickly. 3 pickup truck loads of branches to go to the dump. Very Saturn. Saturn rules hard work and old age.

But we recently had several neighbours tell us how much they appreciated the work we were doing. (A rough-looking yard affects the neighbours' property values, as well as their sense of aesthetics.) One man brought us a bottle of wine to welcome us to the neighborhood.

This may seem like a small reward, but Saturn deals with the long-term time frame. Good will from one's neighbours, especially in a small town like ours, counts for a great deal.

The other reward is seeing how an overgrown mass of shrubs can become a beautiful garden that lifts the soul.

So no, Saturn isn't the planet of get-rich-quick, or feel-good-now. Its message is more, put the hard work in now, and rewards will come later.

Saturn is in it for the long haul.
But is the juice worth the squeeze? Is the "reward" worth the **** you deal with? Or is it "lose 100 dollars so you'll get back 10 dollars in the future"? Sure getting back ten dollars is better than nothing but it isn't worth losing 100 dollars.
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