Astrology ethics

[Note: this is an off-topic discussion moved from another thread to create a new thread - Moderator]

Osamenor said:

I'm wondering how far I should delve into astrology before it's okay to start doing readings for pay.
I had an "aha" moment today: I'm currently studying herbalism, and last week, we had a class on herbs and astrology,
taught by a professional herbalist/astrologer, and as part of that, she gave everyone their birth chart.
Most of my classmates have little or no experience with astrology,
while I love to share what I know, so I end up just rattling stuff off.
Today, we were just hanging out having lunch, some people started asking about their charts,
and since I could answer their questions, I did...
and joked that I ought to charge for this.

Seriously, should I start charging people to interpret their birth charts?
I think enough people want me to read for them that I could spend a lot of time and energy on it if I chose,
and while I love astrology and love telling people about their charts,
I'm afraid that if I do too much of that for free (outside of this forum), I'll sell myself short.


But I'm not at professional level yet.

I know birth chart interpretation pretty well,

but barely have a sense of transits,

and I certainly can't rectify charts.

I don't know much outside of modern psychological astrology, either.

There's lots and lots to learn before I can comfortably turn pro.

I guess my question is, is it okay to charge money for this, as long as I make it clear that I'm amateur,
and I don't charge as much as a fully qualified professional?

And on that subject, how do you know when you're a fully qualified professional astrologer?
There's no specific certification you have to get, no government standards, so what's the deciding factor?

Click to expand...

Important feedback from byjove

byjove said:

Hi,

I've asked that my account is closed today so it will likely be done very shortly.

I'm cutting out astrology, tarot reading and psychics completely from my life.
It's not that I think any of it is wrong exactly.

So many things which were predicted happened right on time.


But, as seen in my last thread, as some of you are likely to pick up on,
over a period of a few years, advice and guidance given I feel led me massively astray which culminated in serious events earlier this year.
It seriously impaired my judgement, damaged me and I know I would have handled things quite differently.
Would things have all worked out perfectly without astrology etc.?
Not at all.
The general outcome could likely have been the same.
But I wouldn't have been so badly affected like this.
Note, strong words were given to me, indicating a near definitive outcome.
So I didn't imagine of my desire alone.
Expectations were blown out of proportion.
This is related to transits and progressions, not horaries.


I have a comment on horaries too. It's natural for many of us to turn to horary in times of need.
Some of us do it quite publicly here and others privately, but still do it.
It's important not to let the art of horary take over when things are tricky.
Also, I have noted that there is such a divergence on methods,
practically every person who comments on a horary can have a completely different opinion on the outcome.
Half may say yes, half no.
That speaks volumes to me. Rolling the dice has the same outcome.

Notes for other astrologers on the way!

Thanks all,

Goodbye

Click to expand...

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Stellium6th said:

What's the use or objective therefore?

Click to expand...

That's a good question because
the objective as stated
appears to be
to avoid


and in fact not just avoid but to

quote:

katydid said:

Obviously the main thing is to NEVER make any medical claims
or any kind of diagnosis
or any kind of solid, predictions
that can be misconstrued.
And do not let anyone try and steer you in any of those directions.

Click to expand...

clearly one is advised to NOT PREDICT ANYTHING
while "not letting anyone steer one into making ANY KIND OF SOLID predictions"

but instead
to practice what appears to be
a form of psychological guidance counselling loosely based on astrology

furthermore
no mention is made of the necessity or otherwise
of having any qualifications in psychology
i.e.
quote:

katydid said:

I think that if you are truly, sincerely helpful,

and

can guide them in some positive directions

then

charging a fee or making a trade/barter is totally fine.

Click to expand...

thus
it seems that since one is offering guidance
based on little more than one's own 'sincerely helpful' personal opinion

and clearly because
everyone's time is valuable

so in that sense then
"a fee
or trade/barter"
of some unspecified kind
based solely on the fact that one is giving the client some attention
is apparently considered justified

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Stellium6th said:

What's the use or objective therefore?

Click to expand...

At the time, we were college students. So there were many questions about what to major in, and what career to aim for. And a lot of questions about relationships and wanting to see their charts in synastry with potential partners.

The 'objective' changed as I myself changed. I grew and then my readings progressed. I went from looking at 'love synastry' to looking at more esoteric, spiritual musings, as this was UC Berkeley in the 70's. Dane Rudhyar gave a small workshop in my local Astrology Bookstore and he rocked my world.

So the objective changed as I changed. My readings that were given while I was a college freshman were valid for the time and place. As I 'developed', so did my clients.

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

JUPITERASC said:

That's a good question because
the objective as stated
appears to be
to avoid


and in fact not just avoid but to

quote:

clearly one is advised to NOT PREDICT ANYTHING
while "not letting anyone steer one into making ANY KIND OF SOLID predictions"

but instead
to practice what appears to be
a form of psychological guidance counselling loosely based on astrology

furthermore
no mention is made of the necessity or otherwise
of having any qualifications in psychology
i.e.
quote:

thus
it seems that since one is offering guidance
based on little more than one's own 'sincerely helpful' personal opinion

and clearly because
everyone's time is valuable

so in that sense then
"a fee
or trade/barter"
of some unspecified kind
based solely on the fact that one is giving the client some attention
is apparently considered justified

Click to expand...

I did not mean 'not to predict anything', in a literal sense. Obviously one can 'predict' that a new boyfriend with his mars opposed your native's moon might be a aggressive choice and he may be a difficult partner. You can make valid descriptions and interpretations of future trends.

I was speaking, in the post you are quoting, in context, in terms of a BRAND NEW ASTROLOGER, working with herbs and doing readings. It is a potentially dangerous situation because of the many potential 'medical' questions which would ensue. So I was speaking about predictions of a physical, medical nature. I was warning them not to feel pushed into making any medical claims or predictions.

Personally, I think handing out too many 'predictions' can be very detrimental. It limits the free flow of daily life, in my pinion. Predicting that some one is going to 'meet their future husband in their workplace in June' can be a nightmare of a prediction. Instead of just naturally developing a beautiful relationship with a co-worker, the person will often run around like a nutcase, looking at ALL of the people in their place of business. They try to second guess it and mess things up. I have seen it work out that way here a few times. People doing a dozen horazries on co-workers because some one gave them a reading and told them they'd meet their soulmate at work.

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Also, what is wrong with 'guidance counseling' based upon one's birth chart?

I would rather have deep discussions with a client, and ask them probing questions, based upon their most difficult aspects, than just give them predictions about what I think will happen to them. Discussing and guiding them into self awareness is a better option, in my opinion.

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Nothing wrong at all, just my curiosity playing it out. I mean, if I recognize art, I would be an artist counselor and so I can help artists with that, but if you recognize astrology, what is it? I think you responded it with your second post: ''Discussing and guiding them into self awareness is a better option, in my opinion.'' I still think there are people who will take any word from anyone; if you call them tall, they are tall; if you call them short, they are short, because they don't have a mirror. But well I hope there are people who know what they are and what they are not

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Also this :''People doing a dozen horazries on co-workers because some one gave them a reading and told them they'd meet their soulmate at work''.

This is probably what I totally don't like about how astrology is used, and what I relate to what I said above. Is that more fault of the science or the fellow?

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Stellium6th said:

Nothing wrong at all, just my curiosity playing it out. I mean, if I recognize art, I would be an artist counselor and so I can help artists with that, but if you recognize astrology, what is it? I think you responded it with your second post: ''Discussing and guiding them into self awareness is a better option, in my opinion.'' I still think there are people who will take any word from anyone; if you call them tall, they are tall; if you call them short, they are short, because they don't have a mirror. But well I hope there are people who know what they are and what they are not

Click to expand...

Quoted for truth. People don't pay me for my opinion as a man. They pay me to read what their chart says, and that often flies in the face of kitchen table advice. Granted, I do predictive work, but if you're doing counselling based on astrology, are you doing astrology or is it actually psychology or some other agenda with astrology kind of tacked on?

Not saying it always is, but I do think it's important to be mindful of this.

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Stellium6th said:

Also this :''People doing a dozen horazries on co-workers because some one gave them a reading and told them they'd meet their soulmate at work''.

This is probably what I totally don't like about how astrology is used, and what I relate to what I said above. Is that more fault of the science or the fellow?

Click to expand...

You and I both have 6th house stelliums. We see the world through a rational, logical lens, perhaps.

I see birth charts as a tool. I see them as a map to help one figure out 'how to' accomplish certain things. How to deal with one's mother and the emotional blowback from childhood [moon/saturn]----how to create healthy love relationships[mars/venus] ----how to succeed in one's work/career aspirations[Sun/Jupiter/Saturn]

Some people see birth charts as a way too foretell one's future life experiences. They want to look at a chart and say with certainty that one will have two marriages , with no children, and have a long list of failed career aspirations. That is not the way that I want astrology to be used.

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Oddity said:

Quoted for truth.
People don't pay me for my opinion as a man.
They pay me to read what their chart says, and that often flies in the face of kitchen table advice.
Granted, I do predictive work,
but if you're doing counselling based on astrology, are you doing astrology
or is it actually psychology or some other agenda with astrology kind of tacked on?

Not saying it always is, but I do think it's important to be mindful of this.

Click to expand...

Certainly the client needs to be informed clearly and unequivocally
regarding whether the delineation is predictive
or simply pseudo-psychological councelling
pseudo because no astrologer is qualified as a psychologist UNLESS that astrologer has completed an accredited psychology course

in fact both traditional western astrology and Vedic astrology
have proven predictive ability

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Oddity said:

Quoted for truth. People don't pay me for my opinion as a man. They pay me to read what their chart says, and that often flies in the face of kitchen table advice. Granted, I do predictive work, but if you're doing counselling based on astrology, are you doing astrology or is it actually psychology or some other agenda with astrology kind of tacked on?

Not saying it always is, but I do think it's important to be mindful of this.

Click to expand...

Those are important questions. Let's say a grieving woman comes to you after a miscarriage. And she wants to know if she will ever become a mother. Is it productive and humane to look at her chart and say ' NO, YOU WILL NEVER BE A MOTHER. IT SAYS SO RIGHT HERE.'

Is it wrong to mix some counseling, some psychology and some kitchen table advice into the mix? Wouldn't it be better for her as a human being, to be counseled, consoled, and given hope that there are indeed options for her?

Just 'reading a chart' by itself, and giving out the POTENTIALLY bad news, with no bedside manner, no concerns for the client's well being can be a quagmire, in my opinion.

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

JUPITERASC said:

Certainly the client needs to be informed clearly and unequivocally
regarding whether the delineation is predictive
or simply pseudo-psychological councelling
pseudo because no astrologer is qualified as a psychologist UNLESS that astrologer has completed an accredited psychology course

in fact both traditional western astrology and Vedic astrology
have proven predictive ability

Click to expand...

I majored in psychology at UC Berkeley. And i spent 12 years helping to run a group therapy workshop for survivors of childhood sexual abuse. I had a lot of practical experience counseling others.

I think a lot of damage has been done to clients that have been 'TOLD' certain absolutes by their predictive astrologers. Sitting at a desk and telling someone they will never marry or never have children or never be a financial success can be a very destructive thing, in my opinion.

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Stellium6th said:

Also this :
''People doing a dozen horazries on co-workers because some one gave them a reading and told them they'd meet their soulmate at work''.

This is probably what I totally don't like about how astrology is used,
and what I relate to what I said above.
Is that more fault of the science or the fellow?

Click to expand...

Unrealistic expectations
of online forums populated by amateur astrologers with little or no experience
and therefore no skill or understanding of astrology
are at the root of your dislike of "how astrology is used"
and nothing can be done regarding online amateur forums
online forums are here to stay

An individual has the choice of reading the ancient texts on which all astrology is founded
instead of inventing delineation as one goes along
byjove is just one of many let down by unrealistic expectations

byjove said:

Hi,

I've asked that my account is closed today so it will likely be done very shortly.

I'm cutting out astrology, tarot reading and psychics completely from my life.
It's not that I think any of it is wrong exactly.

So many things which were predicted happened right on time.

But, as seen in my last thread, as some of you are likely to pick up on,
over a period of a few years, advice and guidance given I feel led me massively astray
which culminated in serious events earlier this year.
It seriously impaired my judgement,
damaged me and I know I would have handled things quite differently.
Would things have all worked out perfectly without astrology etc.? Not at all.
The general outcome could likely have been the same.
But I wouldn't have been so badly affected like this.
Note, strong words were given to me, indicating a near definitive outcome. So I didn't imagine of my desire alone.
Expectations were blown out of proportion.
This is related to transits and progressions, not horaries.

I have a comment on horaries too.
It's natural for many of us to turn to horary in times of need.
Some of us do it quite publicly here and others privately, but still do it.
It's important not to let the art of horary take over when things are tricky.
Also, I have noted that there is such a divergence on methods, practically every person who comments on a horary can have a completely different opinion on the outcome.
Half may say yes, half no. That speaks volumes to me. Rolling the dice has the same outcome.

Notes for other astrologers on the way!

Thanks all,

Goodbye

Click to expand...

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Do you correlate stellium and planets in 6th house with that? I would find it interesting. The explanations about 6th house and that are always so booooring


About your debate, I personally admire those who are not ambiguous. And I dislike those who come to astrologers as if they were psychologists. Otherwise, what's astrology? Psychology with different/more tools? If you take the cake, you eat it all

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

katydid said:

I majored in psychology at UC Berkeley.
And i spent 12 years helping to run a group therapy workshop for survivors of childhood sexual abuse.
I had a lot of practical experience counseling others.

Click to expand...

Then you are fortunate because quite clearly
the vast majority of so-called psychological astrologers
have NOT majored in psychology from UC Berkeley or anywhere else

neither have many, if any, spent 12 years helping running group therapy workshops
nor have the vast majority of astrologers much if any practical experience counselling others

also
of those who majored in psychology at UC Berkely
the vast majority did not then choose to be astrologers

katydid said:

I think a lot of damage has been done to clients
that have been 'TOLD' certain absolutes by their predictive astrologers.
Sitting at a desk and telling someone they will never marry
or never have children
or never be a financial success can be a very destructive thing, in my opinion.

Click to expand...

That is your opinion to which you are entitled

NEVERTHELESS
some people welcome these kinds of facts
but obviously not everyone would


FURTHERMORE

if you are basing your criticisms of predictive astrology
on random advice provided for free on an online amateur astrological forum
then your expectations are clearly unrealistic

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Stellium6th said:

Do you correlate stellium and planets in 6th house with that?
I would find it interesting.
The explanations about 6th house and that are always so booooring

Click to expand...

online forums have limitation
It's simply not possible to quote an entire volume on this forum
Although it is not a course, ITA is an invaluable reference and resource guide for students of all levels,
whether working solo or taking a course, whether fully traditional
or a curious student of modern astrology Preview the Table of Contents http://www.bendykes.com/ita.php

Stellium6th said:

About your debate, I personally admire those who are not ambiguous.

Click to expand...

An online forum is not the place for delineating charts in a public manner
much that an astrologer may interpret from a chart
is likely to be of a personal nature
and few want their personal lives discussed online

however
ambiguity when using simple so-called psychological astrology is not unusual

Stellium6th said:

And I dislike those who come to astrologers as if they were psychologists.

Click to expand...

rather than dislike those who approach astrologers as if they were psychologists
one could simply refer those people to a genuine and unambiguous psychologist

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Stellium6th said:

Otherwise, what's astrology?

Psychology with different/more tools?

If you take the cake, you eat it all

Click to expand...

Quite

The fact is astrologers are unregulated
which is why most consider astrology as on a level with fairground psychics

NEVERTHELESS
if one reads and studies and practices
then one can discover
precisely what astrology is for oneself http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf

our forum is a place for members to practice
the trade is a free reading

the level of reading is based on the skill of the individual member
most members are inexperienced
so it is considered a good way for inexperienced members to gain skills

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

katydid said:

Those are important questions. Let's say a grieving woman comes to you after a miscarriage. And she wants to know if she will ever become a mother. Is it productive and humane to look at her chart and say ' NO, YOU WILL NEVER BE A MOTHER. IT SAYS SO RIGHT HERE.'

Is it wrong to mix some counseling, some psychology and some kitchen table advice into the mix? Wouldn't it be better for her as a human being, to be counseled, consoled, and given hope that there are indeed options for her?

Just 'reading a chart' by itself, and giving out the POTENTIALLY bad news, with no bedside manner, no concerns for the client's well being can be a quagmire, in my opinion.

Click to expand...

I didn't realise that doing predictive work was synonymous with having no bedside manner. In my experience, it isn't, at least.

OF COURSE I am going to listen to people's concerns and respond in as compassionate way as possible. And that does colour the way you say things, but it is not psychological counselling. E.g., what you're going to look at and what you're going to say to someone who is 20 and will never have children is somewhat different to what you'd say to someone who's 50 and won't.

I suppose if everything is always cut and dry, that won't be the case for you. But if you can actually READ A FRIGGIN CHART and you're a halfway perceptive human being (I grant that that's a minority) you won't act horrifically - as you are implying predictive astrologers do.

This is not a simple business, Katy, and I would hope that you know that by now.

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

@Oddity:''what you're going to look at and what you're going to say to someone who is 20 and will never have children is somewhat different to what you'd say to someone who's 50 and won't.''

If a man with no teeth at all, a jagget racket and a cardboax box called bed, I can say homeless too. That's why I admire some reads Katy have told me she read from scratch

Re: Astrology for pay, when to start

Stellium6th said:

''what you're going to look at and what you're going to say to someone who is 20 and will never have children

is somewhat different to what you'd say to someone who's 50 and won't.''

Click to expand...

Clearly someone who's 50 is unlikely to have children, that's obvious
whereas someone who is 20 is more likely to be enquiring regarding the possibility of children
so that statement is sensible