12th House-beginnings or endings?

Do you think the 12th house signifies the essence of life you have previously lived or how you will live your last years in this lifetime?

I have Jupiter in Sag in my 12th, I know that I lived a past of trying to figure out this riddle, but am thinking that maybe in this life I will be a recluse immersed in the Bhagavad Gita???......

Something about your post doesn't quite make sense to me and I'm having a hard time saying what it is. I need to sit and think about this some more. I have mercury in taurus, what can I say. L.

O.K. I think I figured out what was bugging me. I think you can look at the 12th to figure out what your senior years will be like, but I don't think you can assume you will be in seclusion unless there is something in the 12th that would sugget that you would be alone. I am with you about the Bhagavad Gita part. Your 12th does have the potential for that. I think you could also use your layter years to travel and teach religion and phiolosophy. I want to think some more about this as I munch on my bread and milk. Hmmm. L.

So maybe thousands of years ago some women were standing around looking at the stars and one of them says "Have you ever noticed that when ever there are a bunch of planets in that part of the sky people become sick and bedridden?" The other lady agrees that she has noticed the same thing. Then they agree that people often become sick and bedridden as they get older.
The 12th represents a time when return to the mother's womb and dream. Long sweet dreams. Safety is craved to nuture the dreams and longings of the soul. We need silence to grow sometimes. Some of us never want to leave this soft warm place, then the ascendent or death approaches. How can one house represent the senior years? It could only represent that time in our life when we are consciouslly preparing to leave. I'm not sure that I believe the 12th represents the layter years. I'm debating on this with myself right now. What if a person dies and they weren't going through that softening phase of the 12th house. I think that by saying the 12th represents old age, we are assuming that everyone experiences old age the same way. We are assuming that everyone mellows out and wants more quite time, which just isn't true. I'm wondering if this is a piece of astrology that needs to revisited under the light of modern life. I'm not sure why in modern times we associate the 12th with old age. Many older people are vibrant and have busy social lives. They write novels they are active in local astrology groups and are politically active. I think the 12th house can talk its magic to us at any point in our lives not just the senior years. Well I'm just thinking about this interestiog topic that you brought up. L.

My understanding is that the 12th house relates to so many things.

*One is how you will live out the last years of your life (7 years if we take the 84 year Uranian cycle as life).

*The other thing is it is one of those physic houses that relate to water signs and there's a psychic element to them

*The other is that it relates to various things connected to pisces - such as personal secrets and skeletons in the closet, spirituality, secluded spots - prisons, hospitals etc.

With Jupiter in the 12th in your chart, it seems to me that you are going to have a lot good stuff happening towards the end of your life; you're going to have a jolly good time. It would also mean that maybe you take a philoshopical bent to spirituality and that maybe your secretly excessive or moralistic using these three catagories.

Oh and I agree with Lillybelle, it is a return to the start, the last stage before new life and ressurection so to speak (Aries).

Hmm, I thought there was an association between the fourth house and the "later years" of life. Is the fourth house not the end of all things? Or am I confusing horary with natal astrology? . Probably it's both the fourth and the twelfth. The twelfth house confuses me. I have no planets there, but don't know how to read read other's twlefth house placements. It can't be as simple as: they are psychic/suceptible to psychic influence/have heavy karma/like time alone/or are likely to be forced into seclusion. There has to be something that ties all those ideas together!! What IS the twelfth house?

I've read an interesting interpretation of the twelfth saying that it is the house of pre-dawn, the darkest moment before the light, the time when things are conceived but unformed, before being born into consolidation. So what does it mean to have planets there? Are your planets in the darkest moment before dawn? Id that why they're sometimes considered more difficult to grasp and work with?

Here's the placement that stumps me. I know someone with a Capricorn (structure, achievement, discipline, boundaries) Sun (individual self) in the twelfth house. How does all that self/structure become absorbed into the embryonic, formless twelfth house, the darkest moment before the light? What do you do with this placement?

As for Jupiter in Saggie in the twelfth, I would also struggle to interpret that. It would seem that you have an insatiable, boundless thirst for learning, higher knowledge and wisdom, and that this thirst is placed squarely in the house where it is most difficult for you to "see" and "use" it. Maybe it is a formless thirst, a motivation that you don't easily identify as being your own, but its strong nonetheless. I don't know Twelfth house stumps me!

Why is this such a hard house for most of us, including me, to grasp? I don't think a lot of people understand this house because their words get vague when they describe it. I just recently had my saturn return in the 12th. I felt a huge softening of the ego. I felt like I was dissipating at times. I also had to encounter a lot of the fear that was stored in my body. On a daily level now I feel like some part of me is dieing. This is so hard to explain. A lot of feelings that I never gave voice to are screaming out now. I'm trying to work with my body to get the different chakras in sync with each other. I have moments when it seems like a whole part of my personality is dead and gone and I'm just viewing it as a memory. My sense of self isn't the same as it was one month ago. I feel like a calmer higher me is kicking in, but a lot of fear is still coming up. I'm starting to realise that I've never really felt safe and that I've lived most of my life in panic mode, and I was just never aware of it. Now I'm becoming very aware of it, and some calm part of me is starting to observe the situation. I think this 12th house transit has been one of the best gifts ever given to me. I guess a new self is emerging with this transit. I'm crying a lot, but I can see how needed it is for me to grow. L.

Lillibelle and all,
It is a very hard house to grasp! My thoughts - it is a house of the unconscious, an area of our life that is hidden, even to the conscious mind. However, once tapped into, it brings growth and spiritual progress. I am thinking that we have to open Pandora's box to start dealing with aspects that we don't want to deal with but have to. Somewhat maybe like dealing with the northnode?

I have pluto in my 12th now. The biggest change in my life, (by far!!!), is when transiting neptune conjuncted my sun. That opened up my whole 12th house can of worms. I just about faced all my fears, ripped me apart and am just beginning to figure out which way is east.

My gut is that the 12th house is the essence of our past spiritual life. I know as I was about crawling age I would even grab the Gita then. My whole life revolved around monothesism and eastern philosophy. I was also born into the Christian Science religion which was the gateway to exploring the concept of mind over matter. I was not born into a conservative traditional religion.

I wonder how someone with malefic planets, badly aspected in the 12th deals with 12th house issues? One thing I have learned is that you can't judge spiritual progress of yourself or others. You just never know someone's past lives, present karma and free will. I do think that the 12th house and aspects in our chart is a pretty good indication of the 'mess' we made before entering this incarnation.

It is hard to describe the 12th house because I suppose it is not a concrete area like the:

1st how other's see us, physical body.
2nd Money possessions
3rd Communications and so on......

But the 8th I find a little tricky because you can go from shared finance to the occult.

The 9th also with higher learning beliefs and travel.

But yes maybe the 12th is the most difficult to describe. I have my Mercury in Pisces and square Neptune, so it has connections to the 12th house meaning. I was so glad when I was looking at my son's Astrological chart and I had seen Mercury in Virgo, I thought yes he won't be like me and will have more clarity of mind although he may be a bit of a worrier. But then I had seen it had fallen in the 12th house and I thought noooooooo the curse continues. Just kidding he will have a beautiful mind just like his mama

Shining Ray

But then I had seen it had fallen in the 12th house and I thought noooooooo the curse continues

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haha this gives me the image of a mother-to-be refusing to push until mercury moves out of the twelfth house
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i have uranus in scorpio in the 12th, with a very tight semisextile to neptune in the first. strange to think that in my last days i will go through a sudden rebirth of sorts! the thought is daunting but i'm sure it will be ok..

The 12th house is indeed the most enigmatic cusp.

I'l try myself to explain.

Well we can discribe it as bieng the house of unknown, transcedental, outer world, past lives, long diseases, hidden institutions, channel between past life and recent life, psychic, intuition, real prisons as well the inner prisons, hidden enemies, thoughts, how you view the world unconsciously etc.

Past lifes?

Well the most famous example of past lifes reprezented by 12th cusp, is the Sun and Moon.

Example:

If you have Sun in 12th house, that means last life you were male and also a leader.
If you have Moon in 12th house, that means last life you were a female and also reknown in the public.
If you have Moon or Sun in first degrees of the house ( 5 degrees maximum ) that means you died very young last life ( Atention!!!... the house degrees, not the sign ).

Lots planets of particular gender reprezentation in 12th house reprezents what gender you were last lifes.
Retrogrades or Fixed Stars in 12th house is very good indicator of the past life activity!
If 12th is empty, check ruler or check other minor planets/asteroids/uranians.

There are lots to explain about this house, I see it as very complex and was the least studied by astrologers.

I have Chiron conjuncts Mercury conjuncts Sun all at 12th house, also Jupiter conjuncts the 12th cusp.

23 said:

My understanding is that the 12th house relates to so many things.
With Jupiter in the 12th in your chart, it seems to me that you are going to have a lot good stuff happening towards the end of your life; you're going to have a jolly good time. It would also mean that maybe you take a philoshopical bent to spirituality and that maybe your secretly excessive or moralistic using these three catagories.

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I also have Jupiter in 12th but in Scorpio----JEEZ I hope I have a jolly good time when I am an old codger.

I'm glad this thread got revived. I was just thinking today that I hope I can be released from my past as saturn passes through my 12th. It would be nice to see the men from my past under the light of reality. I want to step over the acsendant in a state of presentness. A presentness that is seeing others as they really are. I don't want to feel a diconnect with my past. I want to feel whole and integrated. I want my past to blend properly with my present to make a whole person who doesn't feel any fragmentation. I don't want to reject pieces of myself by rejecting the past. I want to breathe into a sense of one moment stillness that embraces all moments. At the same time that I want to integrate my past into my present sense of self, I want to see the men of my past in the light of reality. L.

Maybe the 12th house is the house of integration. Maybe it is the house where we merge our past into our present self and release what we don't need. All the houses get integrated in the 12th house. So maybe we integrate ourselves in under the influence of the 12th. L.

12th house Cancer Sun with 12th house Leo North Node here....

AWWWW the 12th house... personal unconscious... the parts of ourselves that we disown. Everything is hidden from our conscious. This is the house where all previous life 'kicks to the guts' live. You know...the ones you repressed and didn't deal with...but...guess what... you will! There are parts of you that will denyand will not express to others... but... guess what... you will!

Your worst fears could come to life in your life... for example... abused as a child, mother an alcoholic, father who didn't care, kidnapped brother... perhaps later in life you will find your self confronting these experience in your own relationships... married to an abuser, or an alcholic who is totally uncaring... and you wont' know your brother.

But for get that... because I believe on a higher level you will embrace your spiritual self... you will connect and all that came before will fade as a distant memory that you have learned and grown from...you will leave it in the past and evolve to a person everyone does a second take on.

Moving from the 12th to the first is the growth required and then the second part of life will be totally different... I think Pisces makes it difficult for anyone to interpret...

This house has it's challenges but I believe it has to do with Karma and reincarnation... if you have planets in here it's for certian you will experience spiritual growth. I liken it to an old soul leaping into consciousness. I also believe it is close to the last time on the earth plane...

The 12th house is loaded with gifts... angles, intuition, psychic abilities, healing hands.

I also agree with Edgar Cayce on this one... 'we can either imprison ourselves withour thougths or we can free ourselves".

If you have graduated from the 12th house you will understand this...

I agree...it's a difficult house to grasp but the 12th house includes those experiences that are beyond our control and disrupt our identification with our egos. It also represents our spiritual life, whether that means meditating, engaging in religious practices, reading spiritually inspired works of literature, or taking selfless action on behalf of others. The 12th house also relates to behind-the-scenes, secluded or confined activities such as in hospitals or prisons, intellectual work carried out in solitude, and matters that are conducted behind closed doors or swept under the rug, away from the general knowledge of the public...

One thing I know for sure it...when Saturn passes through the 12th house it is oftentimes, people simply close one chapter of their lives. They put a big part of their past behind them. They “wipe their slate clean” and make a fresh start. If you do that, then you’re like a woman who gets released from prison early, for good behavior, and gets married. You’re like a young man who gets a job on the other side of the country and relocates. He doesn’t necessarily set the world on fire early on, but he clears a path to start making a name for himself in the future.

So ending and beginning...yes.

I don't know about the jolly good time at the end of your lives....but certainly Jupiter in your 12th house grants you with divine protection. Incredible protection...exactly as if an angel were with you all the time to rescue you from the most dangerous situations.

Carole

Alice,

You mentioned something in your post being "jailed" and "confined". I have Pluto[in Libra] in my 12 house. It is trine my Jupiter in Aquarius in the 4th. Your post really had an impact me. I do feel confined. Especially in my own body. I discussed these feelings in one of the threads on this forum[I can't remember now.] In the post I discussed wanting to loose my body. I don't mean suicide or anything like that. I just feel like my physical form, is very restrictive sometimes, and I believe this explains my need to fast every now and then[I don't know if i'm making any sense!]

I was looking at my Solar Return chart for 2007/2008 March 12th. I have the Moon-jupiter-Pluto all in Sagittarius in the 12th house. My progressed Moon is working it's way to my 12th house also. I have a deep need to heal, and help people. Even members of my own family. As stressful as these situations are on me, I always manage to pull through! My mothers's Moon is in Libra, conjunct my Pluto in the 12th. My ex-husbands Moon conjuncted my 12th house Pluto also.

I work as a Home Health Aide, and I often work in Hospitals with Cancer/Aids patients. I also spend time in there homes[which I LOVE] I just really want to be around the sick and helpless. It brings me alot of comfort.

What if your 12th house is empty?