Saturn in 12th house

Vyri said:

When you consider that Saturn rules the 10th house, a place of the Mother's influence and standing, the nurturing effects early in the formative years we integrate she offers us to become whole individuals, as the Mother helps us indwell to aid us to create attitude's of love and emotional strength that help us face the world we would emerge in, then we may think upon the aspects from Saturn to other planets as well to consider distance relationships the sign Capricorn (ruler of destiny) will have in proximity to the other houses and signs within the map..as to why we shouldn't have to consider very hard why Saturn joys in the 12th house? It is a place where fine metals are developed from the elimination of un-needed dross.

The subject matter generally ruled of Saturn as an ambassador of the 10th being sent here, the understanding is that some prior karma sent the individual, (a self awareness house) indwelling in the sector of pondering and circumspection. Think of the house as a chrysalis which contains the butterfly before emerging into the light to once again rise to gather experiences in a new form. Where upon your other houses in your chart reside the dwellings of Capricorn and Aquarius in your map? Consider the new sign there as=a blend, of a tool that helps you dawn a different cloak of expression for that house or as some new drape of element/sign upon the 10th and 11th house with the place where Capricorn or Aquarius now dwells within the map. There is most generally why you will note why Saturn is within the 12th house.

For example with Capricorn on the 10th house and Saturn within the 12th the Mother image in your life must undergo many situations of readjustments of thinking and activity/planning on your part, she might (Mother) will be your hidden source of strength or a power which helps you to overcome much guilt that needs to be worked on. In a more sorrowful way you may suffer some secret losses by her you must learn to reconcile within the life span you are experiencing now.

Here Saturn (the Mother image of authority, career attributes best suited for..a house of polished attributes of character.. etc) will give you the best opportunities to work upon developing emerging acumen that help you achieve the process of becoming a finer being of expression. Saturn in Pisces might be an inherited physical attribute of a club foot with congenital difficulties emerging or stemming from the maternal side of the family. Water signs would be sources of aid to understanding the reasons and areas in the map-of your guilt sources, as well squaring and opposing signs and planets, for with great struggles develop greatness. You've heard the old adage, "adversity develops character." These water houses would serve as a limiting avenue or a source of redemption areas=activities that would ease the concentrated physical strife of the malady.

It is an understanding of the blending of powers in the chart that tells us why we have Saturn in the 12th.

All the best

Vyri

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jangle said:

this morning I have been looking all over for 12th house saturn/sun threads online. and you posted this thread today, we aren't alone after all

I have capricorn sun and aquarius saturn in the 12th. those are my only 12th house planets (everything else is capricorn in the 11th - and a gemini moon in the 3rd)

the discontinuity between my capricorn need for admiration and the 12th hs appreciation for solitude is really conflicting at this time in my life (mid twenties). saturn is ruled by capricorn, as well. I don't like using social media, and at times feel like I am experiencing agoraphobia ...not that I fear crowds, I would just prefer to be somewhere alone or with one other person/a small group.

I just read this about saturn in the 12th : "so if you have this placement try to be honest to yourself about your life route. Do you really enjoy your seclusion? Do you really want to get rid of your fears, or are they a comfortable excuse to continue your anti-social patterns? Being a solitary person is not something negative by itself; yet experiencing the burden of self-martyrdom is not the wisest choice." Lol! except, like I mentioned, I don't 'fear' socializing... I just find it much more rewarding to go deep with one or a few people who really 'get' me (Aquarius rising). I've been perceived as shy most my life, which I wouldn't disagree with but I mostly feel like I'm conserving my social energy, I have empathic perception and it can be wearing on me to spread myself thin through socializing. I sound like such a grinch! at parties you will find me in the corner giving astrology readings. I also get really turned off by people who aggressively try to be my friend, especially coworkers, I feel that I simply need just a few friends. it's hard to have more than 3-4 at a time and commit to them, or find people who understand me on the deep level of connection I desire.

we must have a lot of karmic debt or something with saturn here?? since saturn represents karma and the 12th culmination of karma. my saturn is well aspected, at least. I have a bQ, two semi-sextiles and a trine to my mercury. I had someone tell me that I've had many lives as a woman with many people dependent on me and in this life i'm like F off! mama needs to meditate!

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AtomsInPlace said:

Does anyone have Saturn in 12th natally?

How does this effect your personality? Do you find yourself to be very reserved? Depressed? Anxious? Guilty? Despite any other more outgoing placements/aspects?

Do you feel like your life is a perpetual dark night of the soul? Like you can't quite reach that mystical experience you might yearn for?

I would love to hear experiences from anybody who has this placement, plus any others aspects/placement that might modify how you experience it.

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When you consider that Saturn rules the 10th house, a place of the Mother's influence and standing, it bears witness and testimony of the responsibility she must take in the nurturing effects early in the formative years-we learn to integrate Saturn’s best lessons by the Mother’s care Saturn rules. She as lord of the 10th offers to us the ability to become whole individuals, these are just a few of the lessons that Saturn (one of the signets ruling the Mother) helps us with. Here lessons indwell in us to aid us to create attitudes of love and emotional strength that help us face the world we would merge into successfully. Considering these gifts Saturn infuses in us we may also think upon the aspects/energies to Saturn from other planets/signs forming with her by way of proximity from her; the trine, sextile, opposition, square. These energies of the signs on different houses influence us by creating elements of relationship triads, or triplicities. For instance the sign Capricorn (ruler of destiny) will have a solid form or a foundational earth effect to to other houses and signs within the map whom associate in harmony i.e., water and earth, as lets say the sign Taurus has being in affinity with Capricorn. The sign having the lord Venus as its ambassador will be strengthened by Capricorn as earth on the 10th. (the 10th to the 2nd forms a trine, money earned from the career) It is Saturn in the 12th house that tells we must work on the issue of wholeness of foundations in our lives as the earth is akin to referencing compact ground covering or rock to walk on, to steady us in our continued growth or journey in the life. It is no wonder then why Saturn joys in the 12th house, it is a place of weaknesses that need solidifying steadying, and constant reappraisal. (Saturn rules the skeleton, the spine, and aids the formation strength of the flesh, Venus) It is a place where fine metals are developed from the elimination of un-needed dross, Saturn then joys in the area where Pisces resides. Saturn will guide the nebulous Neptune and Jupiter mind to circumspection and discipline, strengthing them in resolve.

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AtomsInPlace said:

Wow we have so many similarities...I wouldn't say I'm anti-social, or that I don't want to face my fears, I just get very easily overwhelmed by constant social interaction. I need solitary time to reflect and sort through feelings and impressions etc.

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jangle said:

All my planets are direct - except for Jupiter ... I have never looked into the implications of retrograde vs direct planets, do you have insight there?

I have a similar career problem, I am a creative person but I also crave power and respect with all that capricorn in me, also my pluto is in the 8th house so that's pretty power hungry as well. right now, I work in a position that I know is below my skill level and involves zero creativity - but it is steady and reliable so it suits me for now...I feel like there is no way I will ever have the career of my dreams because it's impossible - what a poor outlook! It's like I'm always waiting for my 'big break' but not taking the steps to get there. My Jupiter is square my moon and venus - I think this can lead to laziness!! laziness is certainly my biggest fault. maybe having Jupiter retrograde also affects this???

people say 12th hs folks do well 'behind the scenes', do you relate to that at all? I definitely do. I'd love to be a creative director.

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StillOne said:

I wouldn't blame this all on Saturn in the 12th! There's many forces at work here and it takes the whole natal chart to piece it all together. For example you have Moon in the 8th opposing Mars. Also Mercury square Neptune. These other energies will have an impact on this as well!

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JUPITERASC said:

SATURN IN 12TH NATAL HOUSE a previous discussion thread
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95170&highlight=saturn

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AtomsInPlace said:

Hi Jangle!

Thank you for your reply

Yes, I am inclined to be creative too (Write music, sing, paint etc) but with Capricorn on my 5th cusp, I tend to be somewhat serious about it, I feel like it needs to serve a purpose larger than just "having fun" LOL (what a drag!) Moon in 8th here, so I'm not particularily power hungry, but definately need substance, depth and to feel like I'm making a "powerful" difference I guess

I know what you mean about waiting for that big break and not taking the steps to get there...Jupiter is the apex of a T-square with Mars opposite Moon in my chart...So it's like I'll take the steps and then chicken out at the last minute...

Perfect example: I was offered a record contract a fews years ago, I went to the meetings etc and then turned it down. Part of the reason being, I felt like my duty as a mother would conflict with being a musician (Capricorn on the 5th?) but also because of terrible stage fright LOL.

Retrograde planets...
From what I have gathered,

some systems of thought say that retrograde planets are karmic,
in that the energies are turned inwards
so that we may better learn how to utilize them
or get to know them.
I wonder if anyone here has some more in depth,
experiential input on the subject of retros?

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never gets destroyed completely

AtomsInPlace said:

Hi StillOne

Yes you are absolutely right!

I'm trying to synthesize this Saturn stuff with the rest of the chart. That Mercury square Neptune (with Neptune also squaring Saturn) can be a bit of a bugger...Clouding my thinking and making it difficult to see myself clearly...

Also, I'm trying to understand t-squares...

Do you subsribe to the theory that one must use the "missing" leg
(the house/sign opposite the apex)
to find balance and get the best out of a t-square?

Thank you for taking the time to respond StillOne...'Tis very much appreciated

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'T' SQUARE:

Two planets in opposition are both in square to a third planet.
This brings tension and sharp, pressing problems,
the result of which may be great energy
and consequently a better than average chance of success throughout life.

When interpreting a T' Square all the factors involved
- planets, signs and houses
- must be taken separately
and then built up into a picture of the choices, difficulties
and solutions which each planet suggests.

When the 'T' Square is in:

Cardinal Signs, there is exceptional dynamism and energy;

Fixed Signs, people may be excessively stubborn,
fighting personal battles to the bitter end.

Mutable Signs, they may try to solve,
or even avoid,
the problems associated with the 'T' Square
by being flexible and adaptable.

JUPITERASC said:

A retrograde planet is no more "karmic" than a Direct planet

obviously everyone has their own personal opinion on this matter
HOWEVER
the fact is that
the word "Karma" is a SANSKRIT word that simply means "Action"
and
since actions have consequences
so
the term karma connects actions and results


Karma = Action

There are three BASIC types:

PHYSICAL action
VERBAL action
MENTAL action.

Every action leaves an imprint


Physical actions may produce tangible residue

whereas
verbal and mental karma create intangible imprints.


Analyze the trail of any karma
and one may be surprised

how it may wane
but

never gets destroyed completely
It is the residue of each karma that conditions one

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AtomsInPlace said:

I personally agree with the meaning of karma being action.
I've always had a problem with people interpreting karma
as some kind of cosmic punishment.

Thank you for the picture, I LOL'ed

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personal total freedom of action without consequences is a pipe-dream

JUPITERASC said:

It's as ridiculous as claiming that one has free will despite
"being created" by some cosmic omnipotent deity
who then forces one to plead with said deity for ones salvation

it's very simple
personal total freedom of action without consequences is a pipe-dream

even if

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AtomsInPlace said:

What house/sign is your Jupiter in?

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