Empty houses´rulers?

[athair]

Hil, i would like to know whether is right to seek for a natal empty house´s planet by looking at the house´s ruler placement (for instance, I have empty houses 1, 2, 7, 8, 10: i have my 8th house in Cancer; then should i look for Cancer´s ruler, that is Moon, placement??).

Assumming that´s right; i´ve encountered two different meanings for such a placement outthere in the web (8th/Cancer´s ruler, that is Moon, in 12ve house);

1-Ruler of the 8th house in the 12th house: The native will surpass his own standards. There will be a need to be free and independent. He will like to be solitary. There will be a dislike to the old habits, old behavior and customs.

2-Ruler of the Eighth House is in the Twelfth House: A lonely death. Ending of life in a clinic, hospital, or nursing home.


Are those inclusive meanings at all? Are there additional meanings (i guess the second one is not a very happy one, indeed) Thanks! Greetings! Any insight would be great...

[ashriia]

Hi. Greetings.

Yes, you are always going to look for the ruler of the particular house, whether empty or not actually.

It would be easier if you posted your chart for astrologers to help you on how to interpret your moon. As there can be alot of additional factors not mentioned.

And most people end their life in a hospital. The lonely factor is too textbook for moon in the 12th. I have moon in the 12th also. I'm not lonely, quite love being alone and having time to myself. So it's all relative.

End of life is the 4th house. That's where everyone goes to die. As it's Home, the root.

[athair]

Thanks!! My moon is a Sag one, together (conjunct?) Neptune in the 12th; i am also Sag Rising square Pisces Sun (4th House). Plus, i have Mercury in my 4th house.

[Lin]

It's best to become familiar with ALL the houses...and their rulers, and the signs and houses those might reside in.
Because: by transits those empty houses will not be empty. Every years planets will transit all those houses. And eventually Jupiter will transit all your empty houses...so what does that mean? You will only understand the transits if you understand the houses.
LIN

[athair]

Thanks! It seems to be a sort of learning process of one´s natal chart (i guess it would take me a few years before i could have a broad overview of all those aspects)! Greetings!

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by athair

Hil, i would like to know whether is right to seek for a natal empty house´s planet by looking at the house´s ruler placement (for instance, I have empty houses 1, 2, 7, 8, 10: i have my 8th house in Cancer; then should i look for Cancer´s ruler, that is Moon, placement??).

Assumming that´s right; i´ve encountered two different meanings for such a placement outthere in the web (8th/Cancer´s ruler, that is Moon, in 12ve house);

1-Ruler of the 8th house in the 12th house: The native will surpass his own standards. There will be a need to be free and independent. He will like to be solitary. There will be a dislike to the old habits, old behavior and customs.

2-Ruler of the Eighth House is in the Twelfth House: A lonely death. Ending of life in a clinic, hospital, or nursing home.


Are those inclusive meanings at all? Are there additional meanings (i guess the second one is not a very happy one, indeed)
Thanks! Greetings! Any insight would be great...

keep in mind that the ruler of a house - for example in this case 8th House
may be in any of welve SIGNS
and that is an influential factor as well as the HOUSE LOCATION

because

A PLANET acts

A HOUSE shows the AREA of life
in which the planet acts

as well as
how strongly the planet can act



and the quality of the planet's expression
is influenced by the SIGN location of the PLANET

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by athair

Thanks! It seems to be a sort of learning process of one´s natal chart
(i guess it would take me a few years before i could have a broad overview of all those aspects)!
Greetings!

Definitely allow time to study these concepts

an analogy of a 'performance' or 'play' is useful

we have

12 basic 'backdrops' to the theatre or movie of a natal chart
Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces





and then

Each of those 12 'backdrops' - dependent on time of birth -
is pinned as an individual 'background or cusp'
on each of the 12 basic 'scenes' aka 'houses'





1. Birth/Self/Appearance/Vitality/Strength


2. Resources, material comforts, earnings
and all issues concerning wealth or of a financial nature
including the manner of attaining wealth, personal goods and belongings,
assets, income, gain, money lent to others, profit (or loss when afflicted),
support and assistance from others. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h2.html


3 Brothers and sisters, cousins or general members of the family
(not parents, they belong to the 4th scene aka house).
Neighbors and local neighborhood. The environment in which we live and work.
Short journeys or those made on a regular basis.
Letters, rumors, reports, messages and messengers.
Communications generally. Newspapers, magazines, telephones, postal service.
Written deeds and contracts. Speeches and debates.
Our ability to express ourselves and communicate to others.
Languages, mobility skills and self-expression http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h3.html


and so on..........


....each 'scene' aka 'house' features planets as 'actors' within any one of the 12 basic 'scenes' or 'houses'
'performing' before the 'backdrop' of the 12 'signs'

for example
Venus and Jupiter are in general thought of as the 'good guys'
Mars and Saturn are traditionally the 'villains of the piece'
Mercury can be the 'dodgy geezer', sometimes good sometimes not so good dependent on the company Mercury keeps


Scenes often 'merge' taking into account that planets in each others houses influence the 'script'

and then
we have our "travelling players"
aka transiting planets
putting in temporary appearances

for example
transiting MOON is "on the scene" for approximately only 2.5 days
before travelling on to the next venue

MERCURY puts in an appearance "for one week only" then on to the next scene
after nineteen days VENUS goes to the next stage
SUN sticks around for a month
MARS fifty-seven days
JUPITER a year
SATURN two and a half years


adding layers to the drama
an analysis may be as complex or as basic as one prefers




__________________

[athair]

Thanks! could you tell me what are the (12) houses´ rulers? Greetings

[IleneK]

Originally Posted by athair

Thanks! could you tell me what are the (12) houses´ rulers? Greetings

The rulers of each house in a chart depends upon the particular chart in question, with the time the native was born determining the rising point and thus the sign on all the other houses as well.

[athair]

Thanks! I´ve just got it! Does the house width have any meaning (that is, the fact that certain houses´ width is bigger than others´ ? And what about both lines anchoring a given house, i mean, are both of them called Cusps? For instance, my 6th house is is Taurus, yet looking at the chart shows it covers a bigger amount of Gemini than Taurus...Greetings!

[IleneK]

Originally Posted by athair

Thanks! I´ve just got it! Does the house width have any meaning (that is, the fact that certain houses´ width is bigger than others´ ?) Greetings!

The size of the house depends upon the house system you choose to use. If cast a chart at Astro.com you will see that you are offered a whole array of house systems to choose from. You will need to read a bit about the various systems to see why they differ.

[athair]

Ok, thanks!

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by athair

Thanks! I´ve just got it!
Does the house width have any meaning
(that is, the fact that certain houses´ width is bigger than others´ ?
And what about both lines anchoring a given house, i mean, are both of them called Cusps?


For instance, my 6th house is is Taurus, yet looking at the chart shows it covers a bigger amount of Gemini than Taurus.
..Greetings!

The fact is
the house location of a natal planet can change
dependent on the house system chosen

easily verify that fact at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page
there, fourteen of the more popular house systems currently in use are available options
Placidus is simply the default
to view for yourself how that works in practice
simply create your natal chart using Whole Sign Houses option
then create the same natal chart but this time using the Placidus option

EXPLANATORY ASTROLOGICAL HOUSES ARTICLE http://www.librarising.com/astrology...ignhouses.html


QUOTE

'...There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems
or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart" into twelve segments of life activity.
In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains, represent general areas of life activity
and are the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets.
Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable.
A planet in Aries was also a planet in the house of Aries,
so that in effect there were no real houses as we know them today....'




'….Artificial divisions now known as houses
were attempts by early Greeks and Hindus to measure strength "points" in the horoscope
which during 7th and 8th centuries AD were construed or confused as means of dividing the birth chart.
The ascendant and midheaven degrees and their opposites were definite power points or areas of intense focus
but not necessarily the beginnings of a house or quadrant.....'

[athair]

Thanks! I seem to be unable to find where to set the chart calculation according to Whole System (i´ve just got the Placidus one...) Greetings!

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by athair

Thanks! I seem to be unable to find
where to set the chart calculation according to Whole System
(i´ve just got the Placidus one...)
Greetings!

Extended Chart Selection Page is the link you need to click on astro.com
From there click on house systems - there is a small triangle
and select from the drop-down menu
which includes whole signs

[athair]

Thanks! Is the North Node supposed to be as valuable an indicator as the Houses, Signs, etc.?

Beside that, there are some issues i dón´t seem to fully understand.

Namely, on one hand i have Pluto in Libra in 11th house and also Uranus in Scorpio in 11th House; but on the other hand i have 12th house in Scorpio (this seem to be the 12th cusp, since i have Sag rising) plus Sag 12th house, and 11th house in Libra (**).

Could it be also that such an Uranus and Pluto transits were Retrograde ones (theres an R letter at the right)? If so, is this meanigful?

Greetings!


** I´m talking about a spanish based natal chart web...in there two schemes appears related to houses, one relating Planets in the Houses, and the other Houses and Signs according to Placidus system...

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by athair

Thanks! Is the North Node supposed to be as valuable an indicator as the Houses, Signs, etc.?

Beside that, there are some issues i dón´t seem to fully understand.

Namely, on one hand i have Pluto in Libra in 11th house and also Uranus in Scorpio in 11th House; but on the other hand i have 12th house in Scorpio (this seem to be the 12th cusp, since i have Sag rising) plus Sag 12th house, and 11th house in Libra (**).

Could it be also that such an Uranus and Pluto transits were Retrograde ones (theres an R letter at the right)? If so, is this meanigful?

Greetings!


** I´m talking about a spanish based natal chart web...in there two schemes appears related to houses, one relating Planets in the Houses, and the other Houses and Signs according to Placidus system...

I use BOTH whole signs AND Alcabitius

and in fact
tsmall uses BOTH whole signs AND Placidus

some use whole sign AND Regiomontanus
there are multiple house systems
its a matter of personal choice

tsmalls has a comment
posted on another thread at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=94683

[athair]

ok, thanks!

[JUPITERASC]

Here's that comment from tsmall

Originally Posted by tsmall

I use both whole signs and Placidus.

The original idea of quadrant based house systems was to determine angularity,
and never to replace the concept of topics.

So I count signs for topics

and use a house system overlaid onto it.

Because, as I mentioned above,

capability and angularity/ability to act

are two different things.

keep in mind that
the current understanding of whole signs
differs from the way astrologers originally utilised whole sign houses

as dr. farr has stated many times
the 0 degrees beginning every sign in whole sign houses is the BORDER of the whole sign house NOT the CUSP

as you have said you are "leaning towards whole signs"
and want to learn more on that topic
then keep in mind dr. farrs synopsis
i.e.
that the original meaning of the word "cusp" meant "point"
such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword
-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,
and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the whole sign house meant its "point"
NOT THE BORDER BETWEEN ONE HOUSE AND ANOTHER
BUT INSTEAD
THE POINT (cusp) for EACH house was the sensitive point of that house
i.e.
the ascending degree.

So the 0 degrees of whole sign houses determines the INGRESS point of planets
while the SENSITIVE POINT of whole sign houses is linked to the ascending degree

[JUPITERASC]

here's dr. farr's original clear, succinct explication/synopsis
posted at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...413#post311413

Originally Posted by dr. farr

Cusps:

Today
(and for the past thousand years or so)
we define cusps as "borders" (coasts),

but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":
it means "point"

such as
cuspal teeth (bicuspids)
and
the point of a sword

-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,

and
in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";

now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning",
which later came to mean its "border",
ie, the "border" between one house and the other.

And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps)
for various prognostic applications
(Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results,
among the various quadrant house systems)


But now notice this:
in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning,
not as a "border"
but rather as A POINT

-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house,
was the sensitive point of that house,
viz,
the sensitive point in whole sign houses
-each house
-that is the "cusp" of each house
-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.


Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus:
what are the house cusps
(sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp")
in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps"
(sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point")
that are
(and were)
used for progressions, timing of events, etc,
and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well
(in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses
(always 0 degree of any sign) for anything,
but it DOES use "cusps"
(points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree)
for timing
(and other)
delineative purposes.


Whole sign suddenly vanished
(both in the West and in Vedic astrology)
during the same period of time
-ie, late 8th to early 9th century
-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices,
rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method
(whole sign)
by a new and more effective method
(rheotrius/alchabitius in the West,
and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)


I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something)
For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign
-it worked better (FOR ME)
I could care less if it were the oldest house system
(which it is)
or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:
only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me
(ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above,
does it work
(producing delineations and predicitions)
better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched;
but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it,
except for beginners
-to you who might just be starting out,
I would say: try whole sign first,
and see how well it might work for you...

[AJ Astrology]

Originally Posted by athair

Hil, i would like to know whether is right to seek for a natal empty house´s planet by looking at the house´s ruler placement (for instance, I have empty houses 1, 2, 7, 8, 10: i have my 8th house in Cancer; then should i look for Cancer´s ruler, that is Moon, placement??).

Assumming that´s right; i´ve encountered two different meanings for such a placement outthere in the web (8th/Cancer´s ruler, that is Moon, in 12ve house);

1-Ruler of the 8th house in the 12th house: The native will surpass his own standards. There will be a need to be free and independent. He will like to be solitary. There will be a dislike to the old habits, old behavior and customs.

2-Ruler of the Eighth House is in the Twelfth House: A lonely death. Ending of life in a clinic, hospital, or nursing home.


Are those inclusive meanings at all? Are there additional meanings (i guess the second one is not a very happy one, indeed) Thanks! Greetings! Any insight would be great...

Hi athair,

Those are terrible readings. Can you post your chart? When the ruler of H8 is in H12 and aspected badly, it can mean that there is excessive fear or some sort of anxiety about death. It is true that often people die in institutions, but that requires other aspects or placements of planets. The real reading depends on what else is happening in the chart.

[athair]

Thanks! I actually seem to have got that (in whole sign system) the so called Cusp is a given degree; i´m not sure anyway as if the criticall degree is given according to ascendant degree (rising sign degree?)?

AJ: thanks!; i do take for granted that web explanations from an insolated point of view are only very broad generalizations; i often use to take a brief outlook of a previously ignored aspect (or some other relation) within my chart, and thereafter try to put it gradually (within weeks, etc.) in context.

Regarding death, there´s a (spanish) quote that goes something like (i´m trying to translate from poetry): "Dying, such an intangible fate, doesn´t happen but beyond this world´s realm". Beside that, there is also the dying as a "lose this skin" point of view. Greetings!