Right: the concept of profection came to Indian astrology from the West, no trace of the profection methodology being found in the Classical Vedic works of Parasara, Jaimini, Brighu, etc...
Profections and revolutions
- Thread starter tsmall
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Right: the concept of profection came to Indian astrology from the West, no trace of the profection methodology being found in the Classical Vedic works of Parasara, Jaimini, Brighu, etc...
Moog
Well-known member
I see.
So you are seeing Tajika as being technically 'non vedic', but rather coming under the larger umbrella of Jyotish?
tsmall
Premium Member
Well, I answered one of my own questions, and turns out I had read and not retained the significance.
From Introductions to Traditional Astrology, Dykes
Jupiter is not in great shape in the SR chart. He's on the wrong side of the ASC from the Sun (-), in masculine sign and degree (+). He's in detriment(-) but has some dignity for being in his own bound(+). Struck by Mars' ray for being within 3* of opposition (-) and he's sitting on the descendant (-). Oh, and he's retrograde (-). He's in mutual reception with Mercury. (+) Jupiter is out of sect. I can't tell if he's a functional malefic in this chart, but at the very least he is doing something that he wouldn't normally do, doing something inappropriate.
Venus applies to Jupiter by trine, and Venus is able to help Jupiter, but before that aspect perfects the Moon will interfere.
Getting back to the question of separating aspects, the Mars/Jupiter opposition is separating by about 3*. This should make the effect of the opposition still active, but color the interpretation. The quote above says that Jupiter is no longer paying attention to Mars. Which is seriously bad news because Mars is on the ASC and making his presence known. So whatever it is about Mars that Jupiter isn't paying attention to is going to bite him in the ***.
How to narrow it down? This is where I just started thinking. Because Mars is L12 and L4 (houses, not signs) and the exaltation ruler of 2. Ok, what houses from his position in Gemini can Jupiter witness? Or more appropriately, what are the houses Jupiter cannot witness? 12 and 2. So secret or hidden enemies and the second house of income.
From Introductions to Traditional Astrology, Dykes
Jupiter is not in great shape in the SR chart. He's on the wrong side of the ASC from the Sun (-), in masculine sign and degree (+). He's in detriment(-) but has some dignity for being in his own bound(+). Struck by Mars' ray for being within 3* of opposition (-) and he's sitting on the descendant (-). Oh, and he's retrograde (-). He's in mutual reception with Mercury. (+) Jupiter is out of sect. I can't tell if he's a functional malefic in this chart, but at the very least he is doing something that he wouldn't normally do, doing something inappropriate.
Venus applies to Jupiter by trine, and Venus is able to help Jupiter, but before that aspect perfects the Moon will interfere.
Getting back to the question of separating aspects, the Mars/Jupiter opposition is separating by about 3*. This should make the effect of the opposition still active, but color the interpretation. The quote above says that Jupiter is no longer paying attention to Mars. Which is seriously bad news because Mars is on the ASC and making his presence known. So whatever it is about Mars that Jupiter isn't paying attention to is going to bite him in the ***.
How to narrow it down? This is where I just started thinking. Because Mars is L12 and L4 (houses, not signs) and the exaltation ruler of 2. Ok, what houses from his position in Gemini can Jupiter witness? Or more appropriately, what are the houses Jupiter cannot witness? 12 and 2. So secret or hidden enemies and the second house of income.
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Yes (but in no way impugning the Tajik innovations in its synthesis of classical Indian astrology with its own Western-influenced traditions)
For me, Indian astrology (jyotish) blends several traditions; the purely "Vedic" traditions per se, I consider to be represented by the Parasara "mainstream", and by the Jaimini and Nadi minority branches; outside of this "purely Vedic" definition, but within jyotish, we have the Tajik stream, the KP stream (albeit very close to the Parasara mainstream), and the Lal Kitab stream (indeed, the hardly known Jain astrology might well represent another stream as well)
Note: Moog and I seem to be discussing matters rather off the topic of this thread
-we're not trying to hijack the thread though, we've simply gotten off on a related road
!
tsmall
Premium Member
Note: Moog and I seem to be discussing matters rather off the topic of this thread
I think it's fine.
Moog
Well-known member
Yes (but in no way impugning the Tajik innovations in its synthesis of classical Indian astrology with its own Western-influenced traditions)
For me, Indian astrology (jyotish) blends several traditions; the purely "Vedic" traditions per se, I consider to be represented by the Parasara "mainstream", and by the Jaimini and Nadi minority branches; outside of this "purely Vedic" definition, but within jyotish, we have the Tajik stream, the KP stream (albeit very close to the Parasara mainstream), and the Lal Kitab stream (indeed, the hardly known Jain astrology might well represent another stream as well)
Note: Moog and I seem to be discussing matters rather off the topic of this thread
Yes, thank you for clarifying. I see it similarly.
I think though that to those not entirely familiar with the different branches of astrology employed under the umbrella of Vedic astrology/Hindu astrology/Jyotish, it's all one thing.
And I thought it would be useful to make the distinction, and connect the dots between traditions, as is my preference, rather than create more separation.
Moog
Well-known member
Note: Moog and I seem to be discussing matters rather off the topic of this thread
My 'problem' is that all roads are related in some way
My 'problem' is that all roads are related in some way
I think so too-which is largely what has made me an eclectic
!
tsmall
Premium Member
My 'problem' is that all roads are related in some way
Ok, we're all eclectic. Meanwhile tsmall is talking to herself again over here. If all roads are related in some way, does anyone have anything to say on if I'm doing it correctly or not??
Answer is, does what you are doing "work" in providing what you consider to be correct or accurate delineations and predictive outcomes? I think that is the only criteria in assessing whether what we are doing (ie what road/s we have chosen to follow) is right (correct) or not! Of course you have been studying only 2 years, so it is rather too early to make such an assessment-you have just been learning certain basic elements and approaches, just been getting information about various delineative and predictive models "under your belt": see how well trying to APPLY the models, ACTUALLY works out! The continue, or (if it doesn't work all that well for YOU), change roads!
BobZemco
Well-known member
The Ascendant axis tells the length of day (or night) at your Latitude at a given time in the year (Diurnal/Nocturnal Hours). The only thing going on here is this time is divided in half to show how long it would take the Ascendant to rise to the vertical point and that is roughly 2 "units" (I'm reluctant to say "hours"), 2 units and then 2 more units to the vertical point.
We're factoring in Signs of Short and Long Ascension, so if you happen to be at Latitude 34°03' and if the Obliquity of Earth happens to be 23°26' and if you happened to be staring at 27° Aries rising, then it would take 5 minutes before you see 29° Aries come up, but if you were looking at 27° Libra, it would take 10 minutes to rise to 29°.....hence Signs of Short and Long Ascension.
If I had to guess, I'd say it didn't really add anything that wasn't already known or inferred from the chart, so they used a simpler method of profecting in 30° increments, which is just fine and dandy.
I threw it out there so people would know there is an alternative method. Neither method is "right" or "wrong" or better than the other. Sometimes charts are "funny" and you need all the help you can get.
Uh, yeah, something like that.
But don't over-look the signification of the House Types.
Remember that Angular Houses signify the beginning of everything. In a Natal Chart the beginning of your life; in a Solar Return Chart the beginning of this year of your life; in Horary/Electional the beginning of the Question; and in Mundane the beginning of the event.
Specifically the angles show areas of your life; 1st House - you; 10th House - career/job/profession/reputation/honor/standing; the 7th - others; and the 4th - parents, home and family, and what begins there.
In Solar Returns, the 7th would represent new relationships, but it should not be construed so narrowly that the focus is only on conjugal or marital relationships. Likewise the 10th should not be limited to "job" only, even though that is where you'd look in a Solar Return for a new job (but a "new" employer could simply be your company being taken over by another, or sold to another etc).
Succeedent Houses show a continuation of those things that already exist, while Cadent Houses show change or endings.
The ruler of an Angular, Succeedent, or Cadent House being in the same or another Angular, Succeedent or Cadent House doesn't really mean a whole lot.
It's when they are in other House Types that matters.
Cadent House Ruler in any Succeedent House indicates change; while in any Angular House it is something coming to an end. And here is where Retrogradation can help, because it often suggests slow painful change/ending (and the same would be true if the Significator Planet were impeded or otherwise distressed). When the Significators are in applying aspects, and Retrogradation is involved, then again, it can suggest something changing/ending abruptly, or forcefully, instead of simply dissipating.
Understand I'm talking about SR Charts and Mundane Charts mainly here, but in a Natal Chart, that will be a sort of Archetype or a Theme that plays out over and over in one's life.
With the 7th, it could be abrupt changes or forced changes in relationships, and that could be very broad as it relates to all relationships, or it could be very narrow, meaning only physical relationships, or only business/partnerships (think of musicians who were many different groups).
With the 4th, abrupt changes in family life, whatever they might be. You see that with adoptees, foster kids and sometimes people whose parents divorced.
Obviously 10th you're an hero, you're a goat, you're an hero....or changing jobs abruptly, changing career etc, and then of course, if the 1st House is involved, then life's a roller-coaster.
It's also applicable to health, wealth, travel, religion, friends, and of course death.
Succeedent Ruler in an Angular or Cadent House is same-same only maybe slightly more exciting, or slightly more dull.
An Angular Ruler in a Cadent House would be a slow start, perhaps even a "false start" and then in a Succeedent House something more balanced and paced (like a marathon runner would do), instead of being on a rocket-sled.
And don't forget the Signs.....the Signs can give hints to approximate time frames (up to 3 months, 3 to 6 months or 6 months to a year or longer) and then also show the "Degree of Rigidity."
A Fixed Sign suggests something straight and narrow, moving with a purpose and not a lot of flexibility. Moveable sights some flexibility -- which also hints that you have some control or input -- and then Mutable Signs which show very rapid fluid developments -- perhaps a little too much flexibility (to the point where one may be over-whelmed).
Not aware of that. I have Mercury On-Station. I don't think a few days would make a difference.
I seem to recall something about newborn infants looking ahead, but I don't remember why, and my brain is scrambledy eggs right now, so I couldn't even begin to piece together the logic.
The reason we look ahead, is because of the terminology used....Venus is seeking to join/aspect a Planet....as in Venus needs or wants to aspect a Planet.
How does that story end?
Does Venus get what she wants? Does Venus get what she needs? Does Venus find what she was seeking?
Is there really a Pot-O'-Gold at the end of that rainbow, or is it just Seinfeld ready with a snappy one-liner? Or maybe Officer O'Reilly -- you're busted.
And this success or failure to perfect the aspect, how well it succeeds or how badly it fails, is part of the archetypical life.
It detracts from a Planets strength and fortune.
A lot of people would look at the chart, assume that Mercury is applying to Venus and then misinterpret that, especially since they are in moiety.
In reality, Venus has separated from Mercury, and Mercury is not seeking or want to aspect Venus at that time.
Yes, they do. Great idea.
That's one way, and note those are all Human Signs.
Human Signs indicate human involvement, as opposed to animal Signs....I would not expect to be sued by a giraffe, however I might expect to be eaten by a bear.
Human-to-Human Signs indicates humans; Human-to-non-Human is people to things, and non-Human-to-non-Human is what it is. If your house were destroyed in a wildfire, tornado, earthquake, landslide, sink-hole, hurricane or flood, you wouldn't see Human Signs there, but if your house was destroyed by arson, then yes, an Human Sign would be involved.
Health/Illness same way. Human-to-Human, or Human-to-non-Human would be the case for sexually transmitted diseases, any diseases that involved humans, like Listeria or E. Coli outbreaks, and other communicable diseases, like Tuberculosis.
Non-human Signs would be things like the Bovine Sponge-Bob Brain Syndrome, Lyme Disease, Rabies and such.
Uh, I do it all the time.
I use SolarFire, and just pick a three-ring wheel, put the natal as the base chart, the profection around that, and then the return around that.
If I wanted, I could make the return the base chart, and then lay the profection and natal charts around that.
And, if I wanted, I could use a four-ring chart and throw Lots around the outside, or a Lunation Chart.
That is exactly right.
People said certain Planets cast light and additionally hurl rays at each other, not to mention they said that certain aspects are positive, while others are negative, and one can be either/or.
9,000 years later, science proved those people to be right.
Someone just recently said something about they have a Transfer of Light from Uranus to another......a Planet that doesn't cast/reflect light couldn't possibly transfer light to another Planet (which is one reason we don't use the Outer Planets......if you're waiting on a Transfer from Pluto, that just ain't gonna happen...not in this Universe).
Nicely done.
Okay, now I have something new to think about and research.
I use a simple scoring system of +1/0/-1 since something either aids a Planet, does nothing, or hinders a Planet.
If I were to use a weighted system, the only thing I would change is +2 for Exaltation or Fortune Degree, and -2 for Fall or Pitted Degree (so those either really help or really hinder) and leave it at that.
First, the doctrines about Exaltation are a wee bit muddled. There are at least three variations: a Planet is exalted in the Sign; the Planet is exalted only at the Degree of Exaltation; the Planet is not exalted until it reaches the Degree of Exaltation, and then continues to be exalted until it exits the Sign.
I consider the entire Sign. Seriously, the 27th (26°) 28th (27°) of Pisces are Pitted/Welled.
I fail to see how being Pitted in the 27th Degree of Pisces exalts Venus.
Likewise, the Degree of Exaltation for Mars in Capricorn is an Azieme Degree.
In a Day Chart, Venus in Pisces Below Earth is not the same as Venus in Pisces Above Earth. For one thing, Venus in Pisces Below Earth in a Day Chart is in Sect, while Above Earth she is not in Sect (which is not the same thing as being totally Out-of Sect).
An exalted Planet not in Sect tends to act haughty or arrogant (even more so when Angular).
Remember that Sect has to do with competence a great deal. An exalted Planet in Sect is going to be cocky/arrogant because of high self-esteem or self-confidence. And here's where applying aspects can modify that, because an aspect with Sun or Jupiter could lead to excessive pride, or over-confidence --- which can be harmful at times.
When not in Sect, that would be haughty or arrogant for other reasons, like short-comings, and here again, aspects with other Planets can modify that.
Sure, as always, separating aspects show what happened in the past.
"It's a Natal Chart...I don't have a past."
Yes, you do.
Obviously the separating Planet could not represent you (although if the 6th House were involved with the 8th it could indicate some kind of in utero medical procedure).
If it isn't you, then logically it would be your sibling(s), parents, maternal grandparents, paternal grandparents, your mother's siblings, your father's siblings and so on.
Some separating aspects with significators for mother/father can indicate violence, verbal abuse, conflicts do to financial problems, or extra-marital affairs, or the could even indicate that your parents only recently married (with you being the shot-gun baby).
Obviously in Revolutions, Mundane and Electional/Horary Charts, separating aspects will have other significations.
Here's where House Types come into play: separating indicating something recently begun? Something that has changed? Something that has ended?
And actually, it would be, "What is the Planet going to do next whilst in this Sign?"
I guess it depends a lot on how you view the whole Sign/House thing (no pun intended).
Myself, for all the research I've done, I conclude the Signs came first, but they did use an House System. It would have been elegantly simple and logical (I'm actually experimenting now with the system I believe they may have used).
Beginning in 2100 BCE, you have about 3,000 years of upheaval and conflict. Lots of disarray, and much knowledge is lost or forgotten. Then, more conflicts with the rise of the Amorite Kingdom, followed by the Assyrians and the Neo-Babylonians (not to mention conflict in areas on the periphery of Mesopotamia).
During that time period of conflict, it seems the only thing they were doing is calculating the Ascendant.
There's no Midheaven.
The problem with rituals, is that over time, people forget why they are doing what they are doing. Everyone hangs Mistletoe and puts out a Yule-log, but does anyone really understand why?
No.
But 400 years ago, the Puritans did, and that's why they banned Christmas (and birthdays and **** near everything else --- uh, when they weren't burning witches).
Think about that.
Really.
400 years ago, you had mechanical printing presses, followed by electromechanical printing presses, then radio, television, and the internet, plus wireless communication....
...and in the space of a mere 400 years, everyone has forgotten why we hang Mistletoe and why we light a Yule-log and why we do a lot of other things.
So....without all of those conveniences, how much knowledge do you think was lost in the space of about 1,000 years and in particular during periods of constant conflict?
Over time, they lost the many, many mathematical tables necessary to calculate the Midheaven and Houses and/or forgot how to do it -- because it wasn't taught or wasn't taught very well -- and then they forgot why they were doing it.
But then they learn the math again, start calculating the Midheaven again (probably because someone found a text or texts discussing the Midheaven) and that brought about Quadrants.
As you know, ever since then, people have been trying to figure out a way to crow-bar the Midheaven/Ascendant into an House System.
Very obviously, there's some over-lap, and the function of a proper House System is to show you how much (or how little) over-lap there is.
Nothing is "bad" about them per se. They indicate context, and here that would be human involvement.
Aquarius, Libra, Gemini, Virgo and the first 10° of Sagittarius are Human Signs, but note that Aquarius and Libra are also Violent Signs.
Aquarius and Libra are Violent Human Signs --- and so is Gemini if Saturn is in Gemini and if Saturn is also the Air Triplicity Ruler and he is Malefic (more so than usual meaning Sun is in an applying aspect to Saturn in Gemini and Saturn does not receive Sun, nor Sun receive Saturn, or Mars is in an applying aspect to Saturn in Gemini and there is no Reception). Similar for first 10° of Sagittarius --- depends on which Planet is sitting there, who is aspecting whom, and the level of Reception.
Detente.
Wow, I haven't heard that word since the days of idiot Nixon and the other duplicitous idiot Kissinger.
Oppositions are conflict. The level and intensity of conflict, and the way in which the conflict manifests itself is based entirely on the two Planets involved, the level of Reception, and the Signs involved.
Moon and Mars are Planetary Enemies, but Venus and Mars are Planetary Friends (and Venus is the only Friend of Mars).
Reception is about "allowing" or granting permission. Being in a place you don't really want to be, and then having restrictions placed on you, or being forced to do things, makes being in the place you don't want to be that much worse.
But, being received, and so being allowed to act, is at least tolerable to some degree, and then when there's Mutual Reception, there's an air of civility, even though there may be intense animosity.
The stronger the MR, the greater the level of detente. It would be possible for two Planets to be Planetary Friends, and in MR, and then also have mutual reception by Triplicity or Bound or Face (or a combination).
The Signs are important, because Human Signs indicate human-to-human contact. Yes, Aries is a Violent Sign, but it is not an Human Sign, and that violence or malice would be directed at you by other means -- like attacking your wealth.
Running to catch up to something is not the same thing as you running after something, and then that something turns around and starts running straight at you.
1st House, beginnings for you in this year; something new.
Jupiter and Venus can never be truly Malefic. They can be less Benefic, and perhaps less Benefic in a Malefic manner, but nothing like Saturn or Mars could ever be.
Temporarily.
DreamingTheSeas
Well-known member
Please allow me a question for me :
What about when in profection 5th house (sign) becomes 1st house involves Aries Venus, Saturn, NorthNode and 8th house becomes 4th house, but no planets there? Also 4th becomes 12th house (sign)
Also in Solar return chart 8th house is in Aries and i find Uranus there. And in 7th Mars, Venus.
My husband had an heart surgery, a triple bypass and a valve plastic 2 months ago. Suddenly and unexpectedly, but it went well and its ok now.
Am i done with these return and profection or i have to be ready with other(s) incidents?
p.s. If anyone think that my post is inappropriate here i could move it to another thread.
What about when in profection 5th house (sign) becomes 1st house involves Aries Venus, Saturn, NorthNode and 8th house becomes 4th house, but no planets there? Also 4th becomes 12th house (sign)
Also in Solar return chart 8th house is in Aries and i find Uranus there. And in 7th Mars, Venus.
My husband had an heart surgery, a triple bypass and a valve plastic 2 months ago. Suddenly and unexpectedly, but it went well and its ok now.
Am i done with these return and profection or i have to be ready with other(s) incidents?
p.s. If anyone think that my post is inappropriate here i could move it to another thread.
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tsmall
Premium Member
Bob, I hope you (and others) realize that your posts are solid gold. If, in between changing a diaper, planning an invasion, butchering a hog, conning a ship, designing a building, writing a sonnet, balancing accounts, building a wall, setting a bone, comforting the dying, taking orders, giving orders, cooperating, acting alone, solving equations, analyzing a new problem, pitching manure, programing a computer, cooking a tasty meal, fighting efficiently and dying gallantly you ever decide to write a book you'll make a fortune. You have a gift for explaning things.
"If you can't explain it to a six year old you don't understand it yourself." Since I have about as many questions as a six year old (and have some experience of answering six-year-old questions, and how important they are to the questioner if not to the one being asked) I do very, very much appreciate your answering.
My brain is also scrambeldy eggs at this moment. I'm going to sit with this a bit and let all the lightbulbs finish coming on since currently the connections are firing faster than the fireworks at the Hatch Shell on the 4th of July.
Thanks. Sincerely.
tamara
"If you can't explain it to a six year old you don't understand it yourself." Since I have about as many questions as a six year old (and have some experience of answering six-year-old questions, and how important they are to the questioner if not to the one being asked) I do very, very much appreciate your answering.
My brain is also scrambeldy eggs at this moment. I'm going to sit with this a bit and let all the lightbulbs finish coming on since currently the connections are firing faster than the fireworks at the Hatch Shell on the 4th of July.
Thanks. Sincerely.
tamara
tsmall
Premium Member
I've spent a bit reading in IA (Dykes' Introductions to Traditional Astrology) about Transfer and Reflection. Here is another instance of a distinction, at least in how the descriptions are worded, that in order for there to be either transfer or reflection the planet that wants to reach something it cannot otherwise needs to be applying to another planet. Is there ever an occasion when a heavier planet applies to a lighter one? For example, does Saturn ever apply to anybody?
Moving away from my random musings, there is a hint that in the cases of collection transfer and reflecting, applying = ability to regard.
Clearly, Venus is the planet for the job. Once the Moon crosses over Jupiter, Venus will move to perfect the trine, and reflect Jupiter's rays into Capricorn.
In this case, pretty nearly everyone is helping us. However, we have already established that Mercury, as Year Ruler, is running straight into legal trouble because Jupiter was sleeping at the wheel (in detriment and backpeddling.) Venus is posited in the 9th house and 10th sign, dignified by being in domicile, rising ahead of the Sun in a day chart (which I believe is better than coming behind.) In bright degree and a degree increasing in fortune (I especially like that part) and she receives Jupiter by term--some of the older texts seem to place as much importance on the bound ruler as the do the domicile ruler.
I am so happy to hear that this is your opinion. I've been having an on and off discussion with a friend about reception. The gist of it is that Bonatti required reception for perfection of the question, which makes a heck of a lot of sense when you consider that the "perfection" would be for the question to be answered in a way that is favorable to the querent. The point though is that even without reception something is going to happen.
One thing Dykes did bring up about reflection vs. transfer or collection is that with transfer and collection, the reflecting planet is bringing together two other planets (or in this case a planet and a house) that are able to regard each other by sign but cannot bring an aspect to perfection without help. In that case the intermediary is aware of it's role in bringing together two things that want to connect.
With reflection, there seems to be a bit of uncertainty about the outcome, because the reflecting planet is working with two planets (or in this case a planet and a sign) that are in aversion. I wonder if this is where reception will help.
As far as competence, do we need to look at where Venus will be in relation to the house cusps in order to determine ability/energy? In the SR chart Venus is cadent, for all that she's in a pivot.
On a happier/much relieving note, we finally received our Fish and Game permits today in the mail. Would that be an indication of Venus being able to act? What is...interesting about those permits is that they are dated for June 26th, and about the time they would have been approved Jupiter had moved into Cancer and Mercury stationed rx. It took two and a half weeks for us to get them.
BobZemco
Well-known member
Those are good questions.
I've never really seen anything in any of the texts that clarify that. I have seen charts where you get the impression that a Rx Planet can apply to, or seek connection with another Planet.
When you see an Rx Planet and a Direct Planet moving to aspect or join, the interpretation given in the charts is that this is a very powerful, forceful event....like a collision.
So, is a Rx Planet actually seeking an application? I'm inclined to say "yes" even though the texts don't actually make that clear, but the charts you'll run across do.
Well, about Rx Planets applying, and about the Transfer/Collection of Light, as well as other possibilities with aspects, if you can get hold of Dariot's works, that would be good.
Dariot is noted mostly for his decumbiture charts, and in those charts, the Transfer of Light is crucial to the survival of the Querent. That's also true for Electional/Horary questions related to the 6th or 8th Houses, especially for surgeries.
I would never undergo a surgery if the 1st House Ruler did not aspect the Ascending Sign --- by Sign, not Degree, meaning the 1st House Ruler could not be in the 2nd, 6th, 8th or 12th Houses/Signs --- unless there was a Transfer of Light to the Ascending Sign.
He has a few charts where Moon or Primary Significator are coming into contact with an Rx Planet and the results were not good or disastrous.
Well, there you go.
Ah, you noticed that as well.
Basic chart delineation is what it is, but if you want to pick up on some of the subtle nuances, then Bound Rulers are where it's at.
Well, it's a matter of physics. A Planet has no control over whether or not it transfers light, or it collects light. The only real issue here is how effectively that Planet will function.
A Transfer of Light is like you asking or telling someone to take your car up and put gasoline in it, because you have an important appointment 3 hours from now that you have to prepare.
So, you've issued your command or request, what happens now?
2 hours later....your car hasn't moved and the person you asked is sitting on the couch playing video games.
2 hours later...your car still has not returned.
An hour later, your car is back, fully fueled.
90 minutes later, your car is back, fully fueled, and has been washed.
90 minutes later, your car is back, fully fueled, has been washed, and the interior has been vacuumed and cleaned.
90 minutes later, your car is back, fully fueled, has been washed, the interior has been vacuumed and cleaned, and someone thoughtfully parked the car in the shade, so you don't have to get into a car that's scorching hot.
Those things are a matter of Sect status, Reception and condition of the Planet that's transferring light (and the same for a Planet that is collecting light).
Okay, that makes sense to me. I'd forgotten about the reflection thing.
Anyway, remember that Reception is all about granting permission or authority.
You can't stop a collection, since it's a naturally occurring physical phenomenon and the Reception would only indicate your knowledge (since we know we're talking about people here).
Suppose you had a feud with another family member. The collector Planet is going to mediate, whether you like it or not. So, your Significator receiving the collector Planet only means that you approve of it -- express consent or implied consent.
There are many situations in which consent is not required, and that would be especially true where you have a transfer.
Certain professionals -- lawyers, doctors and others -- are bound by a code of ethics, if not by regulations and laws, so Reception is really useless, since you don't have much control over what they do.
Same for things.
Suppose you have the charts of a person in the National Guard, and a Planet is transferring light from the Primary Significator to the Significator of Travel which happens to be the 11th House and the transfer Planet is in the 7th. That person is going to be called to active duty, and sent overseas. Reception really has nothing to do with it.
I've seen those things in charts, which is why I can't buy into "there has to be Reception." Reception is [usually] always better (there are actually times when you do not want Reception, or if there is Reception, the Primary Significator should not be doing the receiving).
Like I said, where you have transfers/collections, Reception seems to be more a matter of consent, willingness and the spirit of cooperation and none of that directly impacts the outcome.
Bounds would help.
Where you have Chart Points like the Ascendant, Midheaven, pre-Natal Moon, and your Lots, their degree ties them to a Bound.
Where you have a Sign, look at the degree --- the reflecting/transferring Planet will have to arrive at a certain degree to make the reflection/transfer. Suppose Venus needed to be at 12° Virgo in order to reflect/transfer light from Jupiter, then the rays of Venus are hitting 12° Sagittarius.
Then I guess the circumstances will change to favor you.
Really? That's very interesting.
tsmall
Premium Member
Here's a fun SR chart (not.) We can file this one under why stuff (like sect and dignity/debility and rulership) matters.
This is an 8th house profection year, which means that Taurus comes to the ASC and Venus is year ruler. Note to add that looking at what has happened (once we've spun around the chart a couple of times) in previous profection years doesn't help. Because the last time the 8th came to the ASC this native had one of the best years of her life. This time? Not so much. Why?
Alrighty then, let's start with Venus, who is the domicile ruler of the radical ASC. As year ruler, she is completely hosed. At first glance it looks bad, and on second look it's even worse. In the 21st degree of Leo in the 6th house, in the SR chart ruling the 3rd and 8th, and the exaltation ruler of the SR ASC. She is er...cadent in the 6th house (for those of you paying attention, the 6th house rules small animals, like the kind one would expect to find in a travelling zoo) in masculine sign and quadrant, and she's in a feminine degree (yay!) but that degree is empty. She is completely peregrine, unconfigured to and so unable to see the SR ASC, did I mention cadent? and rules the 3rd and 8th signs in the SR chart. Oh, and as a bonus, she is applying to a square with a completely out of sect Mars (by sign gender, degree, quadrant and hemisphere.) Just about the only saving grace in this square is that Venus receives Mars by triplicity.
Mars in the SR chart rules the 2nd and 9th, and Venus found herself about half way through the year in a court battle to protect her 2nd house income, which came through the 8th (remember the profection house/sign) because of her 6th house of small animals. Venus being cadent meant there wasn't a whole heck of a lot she could do but watch as it happened. There was some support, and Venus could at least see into the 8th and 3rd houses, but...ouch.
Next up would be Jupiter, since Jupiter is the SR ASC ruler.
Jupiter isn't much better off, in Gemini (detriment) and in pitted degree. Ruling the SR ASC, and SR MC, in the 4th house...and in welled degree.
This was a tough year. A forced job change because the company worked for was bought out and closed the division the native worked for (announced prior to the SR,) which was like watching a loved one die slowly (it took 7 months to complete going out of business) and then the native did have a minimal increase in income (yay Saturn) but had to make huge sacrifices to get it which included a big change in lifestyle that affected every area of her life, including her home and children for working full instead of part time at another division of the purchasing company. Not long after, the native got to watch as everything her partner/husband had worked for ten years to build was stolen away and then found herself in the court battle of her life.
All in all, this native is really, really looking forward to her next solar year. If for no reason than that this one can't end soon enough.
This is an 8th house profection year, which means that Taurus comes to the ASC and Venus is year ruler. Note to add that looking at what has happened (once we've spun around the chart a couple of times) in previous profection years doesn't help. Because the last time the 8th came to the ASC this native had one of the best years of her life. This time? Not so much. Why?
Alrighty then, let's start with Venus, who is the domicile ruler of the radical ASC. As year ruler, she is completely hosed. At first glance it looks bad, and on second look it's even worse. In the 21st degree of Leo in the 6th house, in the SR chart ruling the 3rd and 8th, and the exaltation ruler of the SR ASC. She is er...cadent in the 6th house (for those of you paying attention, the 6th house rules small animals, like the kind one would expect to find in a travelling zoo) in masculine sign and quadrant, and she's in a feminine degree (yay!) but that degree is empty. She is completely peregrine, unconfigured to and so unable to see the SR ASC, did I mention cadent? and rules the 3rd and 8th signs in the SR chart. Oh, and as a bonus, she is applying to a square with a completely out of sect Mars (by sign gender, degree, quadrant and hemisphere.) Just about the only saving grace in this square is that Venus receives Mars by triplicity.
Mars in the SR chart rules the 2nd and 9th, and Venus found herself about half way through the year in a court battle to protect her 2nd house income, which came through the 8th (remember the profection house/sign) because of her 6th house of small animals. Venus being cadent meant there wasn't a whole heck of a lot she could do but watch as it happened. There was some support, and Venus could at least see into the 8th and 3rd houses, but...ouch.
Next up would be Jupiter, since Jupiter is the SR ASC ruler.
Jupiter isn't much better off, in Gemini (detriment) and in pitted degree. Ruling the SR ASC, and SR MC, in the 4th house...and in welled degree.This was a tough year. A forced job change because the company worked for was bought out and closed the division the native worked for (announced prior to the SR,) which was like watching a loved one die slowly (it took 7 months to complete going out of business) and then the native did have a minimal increase in income (yay Saturn) but had to make huge sacrifices to get it which included a big change in lifestyle that affected every area of her life, including her home and children for working full instead of part time at another division of the purchasing company. Not long after, the native got to watch as everything her partner/husband had worked for ten years to build was stolen away and then found herself in the court battle of her life.
All in all, this native is really, really looking forward to her next solar year. If for no reason than that this one can't end soon enough.
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tsmall
Premium Member
And here is the reason I'm kind of pumped (though looking at the 6th house makes me want to go to the doctor, something I've not done in many years) about the next SR chart. Same nativity as the last, but check Mercury.
My question about this, for those who may be able to answer, is...When a planet is activated via any time lord method, do we activate the planets nataly configured with it? As in (crosses fingers) is Jupiter active in the chart?
9th house profection, with Mercury as both the Year ruler and the SR ruler. And Mercury seems very well able to hold the fort.
It's late, but any thoughts would be happily appreciated. Because it's looking pretty good for the home team.
My question about this, for those who may be able to answer, is...When a planet is activated via any time lord method, do we activate the planets nataly configured with it? As in (crosses fingers) is Jupiter active in the chart?
9th house profection, with Mercury as both the Year ruler and the SR ruler. And Mercury seems very well able to hold the fort.
It's late, but any thoughts would be happily appreciated. Because it's looking pretty good for the home team.
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