Reclusive Sagittarius looking for guidance

I have SN in 1st and NN in 7th like you. I've heard from many people that they feel it is contradictory - and I agree. I'm a seasoned astrologer, and I don't believe a NN in the 7th necessarily means you have to focus on a love relationship. I think it can simply be that you will develop more one-on-one relationships - can be friends, business partners, clients. For some it may be marriage. But the main point is improving one's ability to be intimate - to have empathy for others and to relate effectively.



Your NN is in Gemini - so you will want to improve your ability to perceive people as they are, not what you hope or can envision they might be. That's my take on that. If you write out your day of birth, time of birth and city of birth, I may have more to say.

Harmelia said:

I have SN in 1st and NN in 7th like you. I've heard from many people that they feel it is contradictory - and I agree. I'm a seasoned astrologer, and I don't believe a NN in the 7th necessarily means you have to focus on a love relationship. I think it can simply be that you will develop more one-on-one relationships - can be friends, business partners, clients. For some it may be marriage. But the main point is improving one's ability to be intimate - to have empathy for others and to relate effectively.

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I agree with you on the 7th house.
My D.O.B: 16th December 1991 London
Birth Time: 16(4):16 PM

Moris said:

Dear Reclusive Sagittarius,

Looking at your astrological chart, the chart of a writer, it is very plausible to me that your ascendant could be 29 degrees Gemini - so just a matter of less than ten minutes variation in birth time -- this would shift the ruler from Moon-(ruler of the sign Cancer sign of home-makers) to Mercury (ruler of the sign Gemini - sign of writers); your seventh house would then be 29 Sagittarius on the cusp, again shifting the emphasis from Saturn (ruler of the sign of Capricorn - sign of business folks and bosses) to Jupiter (ruler of the sign of Sagittarius - sign of philosophers and travelers).

29th degree of a sign correlates with indecision, being that the energies of the sign (and points and planets at that degree) are simultaneously holding on and letting go....just a thought.

Best wishes,

Moris

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My birth is definetly correct. However, I look like a Gemini Ascendant; Very Tall, Thin......Classic nerd kind of appearance.


Thanks

Ekonomist13 said:

Personally, I think people are afraid of your. You strike as overly intelligent, overly critical of others, even though you have nothing in your chart and personality resembling it. It's just your attitude or first impression. You just have a different vision of the world and seeing as not many people seem to share it, you're trapped in yourself - even though that's where you should be to succeed, it will hardly come without knowing people who can help you achieve that.

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Interesting, I have never considered people might be afraid of me, that gives me something to be aware of. I don't think of myself as particularly intelligent. So my chart has nothing that suggest being overly critical? What does the chart suggest in terms of personality if that is the case. I agree that I am 'trapped in myself' somewhat and need to expand, spread my wings.


Thanks

I pulled up your chart for Dec 16, 1991, 4 pm, London England, and I show a Cancer rising 01-30 degrees. Something isn't right here. Are you sure of this data on the chart you posted? Please check your data so that we can read your chart accurately!

Harmelia said:

I pulled up your chart for Dec 16, 1991, 4 pm, London England, and I show a Cancer rising 01-30 degrees. Something isn't right here. Are you sure of this data on the chart you posted? Please check your data so that we can read your chart accurately!

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4:16 PM London. That is also the time of the chart in the OP.

Oh, sorry. I see your chart does match mine. I was just confused about the conversation about the possibility of you having a Gemini ASC. It's true that you could have a Gemini rising if the birth time is off by seven minutes. But 4:16 pm is pretty precise. Someone went to some trouble to be precise. Still, it's always possible.


That said, you are on the cusp regardless, and you could consider Gemini to be a co-ruler of the ASC. But, let's not get carried away about dissing Cancer. It's right there! And your SN is in Cancer, lending it weight - a LOT of weight.


I don't necessarily see a "writer" here, like someone else here is saying. Of course, you can be anything, but it doesn't stand out as prominent to me.


That SN in Cancer is saying to me that you were defined by your family - and your NN in Capricorn is saying that you are here to learn to live your own life according to your own values from the inside out - not by how others see you or want you to be or how they label you. There is a strong necessity to find yourself as an individual and be your own person in relationships.


Sag Sun in the 6th house - you could be a vet, doctor, scientist, or someone in the health or healing professions of any kind - even alternative methods. You might like to perform surgery. If not any of these things, you could do anything that is a kind of service to others - something that improves humanity - an inventor - humanitarian. This will probably be something that develops for you over time. You could be quite pioneering. Your true life path will come about as you seek to improve your self-confidence and ability to communicate your thoughts and ideas. You have a lot of ideas!!!


With Cancer as your ASC or very close to it, you are sensitive. You'll need to have some caution in who you share your deepest affections with. Cancers are crabs with a shell for a reason. They need one to keep safe. It's okay to be reticent and careful to protect your feelings. Just choose carefully who you confide in. You'll know who is safe with some practice.


That's what I have for you, for now.

passiflora said:

Ah! Your first encounter with perinatal psychology, that is exciting. In that case let’s take a little step back and discuss the basic concept so you can tell me if you feel comfortable proceeding, before any PMs come your way. Sound okay?

It would be good to know a little more about how you came to be interested in astrology and how you experience the truth or helpfulness of insights you’ve gleaned from astrological analysis. The reason is the similarity in some ways between perinatal psychology and astrological psychology. Both of these fields are concerned with the way imprints on the psyche from a critical period, birth, are significant in the entire lifespan of an individual. So if you’re open to astrology, even the kind of astrology-lite that is psychological astrology, astrology light on the determinism, you will have an easier time accepting the idea that the plotline, characters, and themes of the struggle of birth could be repeated continuously throughout the lifecycle and in myriad ways.

To give you a concrete indication of what this means, let’s look at your nodal axis. I don’t care so much whether the house cusps are in the correct sign but given your experiences sounds like Aqua Saturn ruling 7h to me. 7h describes not just your intimate partners or connections formed throughout the lifetime. The obstetrician is the 1st 7th house contact and the experience with him / her created the pattern for all your 7h experiences so far. How difficult must it be to move trustingly towards an archetype that caused you immense pain and isolation and hospitalized you for years, I will only try to understand.

There is a distinct transformational therapeutic toolkit in perinatal psychology that you can draw on for repatterning. It’s maybe a little like studying the archetypes in your chart to understand and change your conscious awareness. There are certainly people doing this work in London though I know more about the Americans.

If that sounds like something you’re up for hearing more about, I’m happy to proceed.

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My interest in Astrology is very natural. I can't remember when I first got into it but it's probably been around a decade, coinciding probably with the peak of my anxiety attacks - if my memory serves correctly. I'm interested in everything, so while my interest in Astrology over the past 10 years has never decreased exactly, it has occasionally competed for mental real estate with other interest and systems of thought; Enneagram, Fourth Way, Michael Teachings etc.

As I approach my first Saturn return, I am seeing increasing relevance of Astrology in my life. My bookmarks for Astrology related articles, forum discussions and videos have bulged in the past 18 months. My North Node in 7th is really pertinent and really describes the of issue with dealing with 'others' and also understanding how I come across. The Moon in 11th with the squares to the uranus & neptune conjunction, I feel maybe describes my remoteness to others and confusions around emotions. All my Sagittarius personal planets in the 6th being dominated by Pluto speaks to my inhibitions and quiet intensity seeking an outlet. Saturn in the 8th/9th cusp I feel is a very prominent part of my experience. My chart describes me and my path so far - all of this provides the impetus to continue studying. Even the things that I'm not quite sure of in my chart - the influence of Venus, Jupiter, Sextiles & Trines make me want to learn more, try different things - test my inclinations and mine my latent abilties. Studying Evolutionary Astrology and the emphasis there on the Nodal Axis and spiritual development has also added some urgency. Learning of Skipped steps, devolving in future lifetimes if you don't handle your karmic lessons adroitly.....

passiflora said:

The obstetrician is the 1st 7th house contact and the experience with him / her created the pattern for all your 7h experiences so far. How difficult must it be to move trustingly towards an archetype that caused you immense pain and isolation and hospitalized you for years, I will only try to understand.

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What you have written here especially the highlighted really resonates, Thank you. I will admit that there have been times in my youth when people have tried to get close to me and I retreated reflexively, I feel a lack of safety in others and intimacy in general.

I am ready to learn more about Perinatal Psychology, seems that not much has been written about it.

Thanks

One question I haven't asked.....Does my chart express any particularly striking chart pattern e.g. Grand Trine, T-Square, Yod, Grand Cross etc

Harmelia said:

I don't necessarily see a "writer" here, like someone else here is saying. Of course, you can be anything, but it doesn't stand out as prominent to me.

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Interesting. Out of curiosity what kind of placements would be prominent in a writer's chart if such a thing exist.

Harmelia said:

That SN in Cancer is saying to me that you were defined by your family - and your NN in Capricorn is saying that you are here to learn to live your own life according to your own values from the inside out - not by how others see you or want you to be or how they label you. There is a strong necessity to find yourself as an individual and be your own person in relationships.

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This is true. I have a large, traditional religious family. I've become quite detached from most of my family, I feel like I have moved beyond the SN Cancer but haven't completely embraced the North Node. NN in Capricorn but in the 7th house seems to be a conflicting message - move toward independence but focus on partnerships.

Harmelia said:

Sag Sun in the 6th house - you could be a vet, doctor, scientist, or someone in the health or healing professions of any kind - even alternative methods. You might like to perform surgery. If not any of these things, you could do anything that is a kind of service to others - something that improves humanity - an inventor - humanitarian. This will probably be something that develops for you over time. You could be quite pioneering. Your true life path will come about as you seek to improve your self-confidence and ability to communicate your thoughts and ideas. You have a lot of ideas!!!

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Isn't the Midheaven important when it comes to career? If there was such thing as a true life path for me wouldn't it appear much earlier, some people seem to know where they are going even as children. I know I am very drawn to certain things but I don't sense the discovery of some specific life path.

Thanks

There are a number of ways to "see" career in astrology. The 10th house of career sign and where the ruler is can point to vocation. The 2nd house of money and where the ruler of the 2nd house sign is. And then where Venus is placed in sign and house can also give a clue. The 6th house is often a house that will suggest a profession - where your sign is.



The 6th house Sun placements often produce scientists, physicians, vets, working with animals, and services that require perfection and exactitude. I mentioned surgery because Scorpio rules surgery and if I remember right, your Venus is in Scorpio.



A writer often has a Sun or Moon in Gemini or 3rd house or 9th house. Virgos and Sagittarians can have good writing ability too. But they can also be teachers and good communicators in other ways. Sagittarians tend to be good at atheletics when placed in outward houses. They can be philosophers or interested in religions.

There isn't a set way to determine vocation. There are always many possibilities for each sign and house and any combination. You may like to write but it doesn't mean that you'll choose writing as a profession. But, you most certainly could. I just see that you could have a stronger interest in science. You could combine writing with your other interests.

I think more people don't know what they want to do as children. Some do, but many don't. It isn't unusual at all. Just be open and pay attention to what makes you happy (that's a Moon thing) - and pursue what interests you. You'll find your path.

Harmelia said:

I think more people don't know what they want to do as children. Some do, but many don't. It isn't unusual at all. Just be open and pay attention to what makes you happy (that's a Moon thing) - and pursue what interests you. You'll find your path.

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The only thing I relate to regarding the 6th house interpretation is the need to be exact and precise in what I do, but the careers indicated by the placement hold no interest for me.

I pursued science in grad school (Artificial Intelligence/Intelligent Systems) and realized it was not for me, I could pass the tests but had no passion for it as a career. May I ask have you found your path?

Yes. I was a teacher for many years (taught the blind and then piano/voice) and then I became a teacher of metaphysical topics and an astrologer. My Aries Sun, Mars and Mercury are in the 8th house which rules metaphysics. I don't do Aries type vocations - its the house. I approach metaphysics with Aries enthusiasm. My MC is Gemini. I love to write but it has not been a profession. Instead, the ruler of Gemini - Mercury - is in the 8th house of metaphysics.



the 6th house can be many things. It is a career house along with the 10th and 2nd. Since your Sun is there, it was just the first place I would look.



What interests you? Sagittarians are usually interested in a lot of different things.

The 9th house rules Law and Sag naturally rules the 9th. That's stretching it a bit, but does law interest you? Or how about crime scene investigations?

Did you never like physiology or biology or chemistry? Physics? Astronomy? Dissecting frogs? These science topics are very different than technology.

Harmelia said:

Yes. I was a teacher for many years (taught the blind and then piano/voice) and then I became a teacher of metaphysical topics and an astrologer. My Aries Sun, Mars and Mercury are in the 8th house which rules metaphysics. I don't do Aries type vocations - its the house. I approach metaphysics with Aries enthusiasm. My MC is Gemini. I love to write but it has not been a profession. Instead, the ruler of Gemini - Mercury - is in the 8th house of metaphysics.

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Wow you must be quite talented, it reads like you have had a very fulfilling journey so far. Thanks for sharing.

Harmelia said:

What interests you? Sagittarians are usually interested in a lot of different things.

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I will go in chronological order of when the interest appeared:

- I spent my early years mostly bed ridden, so I became a bookworm very early. Mostly Sci Fi/Fantasy & huge encyclopedias.

- Late childhood I played a lot of football/soccer, I was naturally skilled but too weak and physiologically sensitive to ever become a professional.

- Interesting in drawing develops early teens, trying to copy the great comic book illustrators, my mother was great at drawing so I tried to see If I could do it. Also begin experimenting with electronic music.

- 14-16 years old - begin writing. I was already introverted, but this is when my inner life really came alive, dreams become more vivid. I stopped going to church with my family and became interested in Zen & Taoism. Beginning of anxiety attacks and hypochondria.

- 17-21 - Anxiety attacks get progressively worst. Interest in spirituality and metaphysics develops. Study Fourth Way teachings of Ouspensky & Gurdjieff obsessively. During this period I fall in love with Bach, Thelonious Monk, Ravel and begin piano lessons. I focus on music more than writing in this period. Study Philosophy at University.

- 22-24 - Grad school for Artificial Intelligence as I said. Have my first real spiritual experiences, dreams become frighteningly vivid, felt the presence of something greater than me. Drop out of Grad school and anxiety attacks also slowly go away, had my last one 6 years ago. Writing becomes important again.

- 24 to now nearing my first Saturn return. Mostly focused on writing fiction, plays and screenplays which I hope to direct.

Other interest include; Architecture, Shoemaking, Fine Arts(Painting, Printmaking, Sculpture etc), Synthesizer building, Dead languages, Anarchism......

Thanks for the summary of your interests. Saturn return isn't for another 4 years. It may or may not be a turning point. It isn't always for everyone.



Many people consider Aquarius to rule astrology. Perhaps your interest will turn into a profession. That would fit your MC being in Aquarius and Saturn, the traditional ruler, in the 8th.



You know, you truly are very young still. Do you work now? Having too much time to think think think about all this stuff can be confusing. Sometimes just working doing something can actually get you out of yourself.


For a long time I thought I would be a writer. You remind me of me, actually, when I was 24. I wrote short stories, plays, screenplays, and I tried to write novels and had a stack of unfinished ones. I read a lot of fiction. Loved Science Fiction! I also had nightmares like you.


I finally figured out that although I love to write, I actually enjoyed teaching and learned a lot about myself and others - which helped me evolve in ways that being a writer would not. And then when I finally got into astrology and teaching metaphysics, which I was always passionate about even when young, I knew myself to be a metaphysician and I call myself that today. I still enjoy writing and I'm pretty good at it, but now it makes sense that I wasn't meant to do that for a profession. I have published articles on metaphysical subjects and I'm actually working on a non-fiction book of my work. I also wrote a column in a newspaper along the way - just for a year. I've had writing projects that I'm proud of. So, it's coming back around that I can use writing in a pretty big way.


Vocation doesn't always go with talents. Sometimes we need something from a profession that teaches us something we need to learn. Sometimes people are talented in a lot of areas and they have to choose one - at least one at a time. We all have to struggle with our choices.


Eventually, it will become clear.

You make an interesting case. I am working. I don't feel young though I appreciate the point. I feel I need to figure this stuff out now because the future is not guaranteed, so getting to the point where one is living with purpose becomes paramount. Otherwise what am I doing? just existing and consuming. Although my interest in Astrology and metaphysics is strong, I just don't see myself teaching it. I think I'm going to pursue the writing and just really throw everything at it until it's clear that door won't open in terms of success. I don't see the potential to really excel in anything else. I hope things do "become clear" one day.


Thanks

Harmelia said:

Did you never like physiology or biology or chemistry? Physics? Astronomy? Dissecting frogs? These science topics are very different than technology.

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I liked Physics & Astronomy but I had glimpse of academic life during grad school and it's not for me. I was also good enough in terms of grades but not amazing.