Will he get medical help and not jail time?

A friend of mine's boyfriend is about to be sentenced on a destruction of property charge. His lawyer is trying to get him psychological treatment in lieu of jail time.

My friend has asked the question, so she is the querent -- the moon in detriment in the seventh house. The moon is past trine with Saturn (which rules the trial) but that makes some sense since he was already judged competent to stand trial.

I'm not completely sure whether I should use the 12th house of incarceration. That is ruled by mercury but the moon has to switch signs to perfect. The answer could be yes if the switching signs doesn't weaken the aspect. Then, I'd say, because the moon is in a angular house in a cardinal sign, she could know in three days (when it switched signs) or in eleven days when it conjuncts mercury.

The querent in detriment but that makes sense because she has no power over what happens. What else should I be looking at? The sixth house for medical treatment? That's not too great because mercury intercedes before the moon gets to Jupiter.

That's as much as I can think of.

Hm, that's a little tricky to tell, seeing how the 12th rules both hospitals, psychiatric clinics and jails. I would say off the top of my head, if the twelfth house cusp sign or lord are very hostile to him, then jail. If not so hostile to his significator, then most likely medical help.

Ray

Thank you, Ray. You have a good point, as he's likely to be an inpatient if he gets medical help.

Although now that you put it that way, I'm confused about what his significator is. My friend, his girlfriend, asked the question, so I made her the querent ruled by the moon. But then, is he the seventh house, ruled by Saturn? And if so, do I have to turn the chart for his 12th house which would then be the sixth house? Am I making this more complicated than it is?

If I make Saturn his significator, because he's the boyfriend, then the ruler of the twelfth, mercury, is not in aspect. However, Saturn is in Virgo and mercury is in Aquarius so they are in mutual reception. That seems very positive.

If I turn the chart, then the ruler of the new 12th is Jupiter which is in Aquarius. Thus, Saturn is received in Jupiter. That seems positive also. I'm going with medical help and that they'll find out the results in the next 3 to 11 days.

At the very least, it is a question in which we'll get a definite answer. He goes back to court tomorrow.

Hey, Ali

I'd like to practice on this chart, if you don't mind. I am not a professional horarist - this is just practice. I read the whole chart, so mine may be in a different style than others.

The querent is Moon in Cap in the 7th. Moon is exactly trine Algol, in the querent's 4th house. Saturn rules the 7th, 8th, and 9th houses. I see this as the communication amongst and decisions made by the counsel and judge. Saturn is (r) and in the querent's third house, conjunct the IC.

Co-ruler of the 9th, which rules court proceedings, if I'm not mistaken, is Uranus, which is exactly conjunct the MC. 9th house also rules conscience. Neptune, co-ruler of the MC is exactly conjunct the 9th house cusp - and the two are in mutual reception. I would interpret this as the judge will take the recommendation for mental counseling into consideration, and will show leniency/mercy. It might be a shocking decision, too - maybe a turn that nobody has thought of yet, with Uranus being smack on the MC.

With Saturn being retrograde, too, I think would show that the rules won't be as harshly enforced as they could be. 3rd house rules mental health and mental rapport/understanding, which is what counselors give. Saturn (r) in Virgo opposes Uranus in Pisces on the MC. Oppositions show a need for balance - so it looks like the judge will balance judgment/correction(Virgo) with Mercy (Pisces). Also, I would interpret the Saturn(r) being in the 3rd, conjunct IC, that he may be sentenced to home confinement, with an order to seek outpatient mental health counseling. Or it could possibly be a "boys home" or charity-type of placement, where counseling is provided. I keep thinking of a young man (about 21) I know who was sentenced to a Christian-run "work ranch", where he lived and received counsel. He had been arrested for breaking and entering.

I'm puzzled by why the Moon is in Cap, and makes no aspects to anything without changing signs. Moon in Cap could show problems with authority, which necessitated the need of an attorney to begin with. But I'm not sure how to interpret it from there. The person's sense of freedom/rebellion needs addressed, and that could be why Moon changes signs. It's in the 8th house, where healing and transformation take place. Possibly a fine imposed there, too?

I would think that Gemini on the 12th house cusp would be an indicator of mental health counseling -and in general, the need for someone to talk to about their problems. (Is this person not able to talk openly and honestly with parents? again, Moon in Cap- also the trine to Algol in 4th) Jupiter ruling the 6th could possibly show a boys home/work type of place going to happen, as well. As you pointed out, they will conjunct.

I'm also curious about Venus in Aries, ruler of intercepted 11th, being in the 10th. 11th rules rebellion, but also humanitarian aid. Perhaps a child advocate will be assigned to him, if he is a juvenile? or some other type of advocate - perhaps someone who will stand up for him, and give him some kind of aid, make a recommendation for him. Perhaps someone who will work with him for anger management?

Oh, and Neptune in Aquarius on 9th house cusp could possibly point to getting sentenced to community service.

Anyway, that's about all I can milk out of it. I'll be looking forward to your feedback. I hope everything works out for the best for your friend and her boyfriend.

FL

Thanks Freedomlover,
Quote
I'm also curious about Venus in Aries, ruler of intercepted 11th, being in the 10th. 11th rules rebellion, but also humanitarian aid. Perhaps a child advocate will be assigned to him, if he is a juvenile? or some other type of advocate - perhaps someone who will stand up for him, and give him some kind of aid, make a recommendation for him. Perhaps someone who will work with him for anger management? End quote.


This part is very interesting. He's an adult (28?) who has a court appointed attorney who has been extremely helpful, giving far more time and effort than she had to. He definitely has needed some work with anger management, which I hope he gets. That was a good call.

Uranus on the midheaven will be interesting to watch.

Thanks so much for your input. I'll let you know how it comes out.

This part is very interesting. He's an adult (28?) who has a court appointed attorney who has been extremely helpful, giving far more time and effort than she had to. He definitely has needed some work with anger management, which I hope he gets. That was a good call.

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I'm sorry, when you said that he was to be sentenced on a "destruction of property" charge, I immediately thought that referred to vandalism - teenage stuff. Yeah, I guess "destruction of property", could also be smashing your tv or taking a ballbat to your car.

Anyway, I would say that Moon in Cap definitely describes his needing control over his emotions in some way - he may block them, which comes out in rage. Sounds like he definitely needs counseling. He's 28, so probably just entering, or about to enter in next few months, his Saturn return. This could all be part of it. I hope he gets some help, too.
Thanks for the feedback, Ali.

FL

freedomlover said:

I'm sorry, when you said that he was to be sentenced on a "destruction of property" charge, I immediately thought that referred to vandalism - teenage stuff. Yeah, I guess "destruction of property", could also be smashing your tv or taking a ballbat to your car.



FL

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Ooh, you're good. It was a lot like a ballbat to his brother's car. Only he didn't use a bat. His hands were quite badly hurt. His family didn't want to press charges but the cops did.

Ooh, you're good. It was a lot like a ballbat to his brother's car. Only he didn't use a bat. His hands were quite badly hurt. His family didn't want to press charges but the cops did

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Yikes! That is ALOT of anger!!! Somebody has to be really mad to go so berzerk that they injure themselves, as well! Now, I double my hope that he gets some help!

My friend, his girlfriend, asked the question, so I made her the querent ruled by the moon. But then, is he the seventh house, ruled by Saturn?

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Yes, I would have done this as well. This sets up the stage for who is who in the chart. Your friend as the querent, her boyfriend as the quiested, and then the jail as the "Oh god no!".

RayAustin said:

Hm, that's a little tricky to tell, seeing how the 12th rules both hospitals, psychiatric clinics and jails.

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Actually, Ray, if I may, I'd like to separate these especially since they're so intimately connected and yet so different in this chart. Also, I've never been comfortable connecting hospitals to the Twelfth house of self-undoing and destruction, but rather the Eleventh as Manilius describes it, the house of freedom, liberation, and healing from the disasters of the Twelfth house. I'd suggest doing it both ways, at least for fun.

So, I would suggest checking out the Seventh house lord (boyfriend), Fourth house lord (verdict), and Twelfth house lord (prison, perhaps hospital) and see what you can come up with. However, there is a word of caution, pay special attention to what house the significator of the prison is in and how that applies.

freedomlover said:

Yikes! That is ALOT of anger!!! Somebody has to be really mad to go so berzerk that they injure themselves, as well! Now, I double my hope that he gets some help!

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Thanks, FL. I do, too. I have had rage issues myself (mostly dealt with now). I wonder if we should do a thread on that?

K-no-S,

I see where you're going with this. I read the thread on helping teach horary by giving suggestions, so I'm going to work on what you've suggested. Unfortunately, I need to go help a friend cut firewood, today, so I may only be able to respond by tonight. Thanks for the pointers.

Ali

Okay, I meant to reply to this earlier but life interfered. Here's what happened to my friends boyfriend: He went to the hearing, his own lawyer and the prosecutor agreed that he should have medical help and not jail time but it will be up to the judge to decide and that's going to take a few weeks. Thanks for your input.

Ali

Ali said:

Okay, I meant to reply to this earlier but life interfered. Here's what happened to my friends boyfriend: He went to the hearing, his own lawyer and the prosecutor agreed that he should have medical help and not jail time but it will be up to the judge to decide and that's going to take a few weeks. Thanks for your input.

Ali

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Thanks for the feedback in process, Ali. I'm glad that at least the prosecutor agreed. I would hope the judge would see the need, as well. Since the judge is the final "authority handling down the sentence", I wonder if that would be 10th house? I know 9th house has alot to do with court proceedings, but wonder if 10th house - the "discipline/sentence" is 10th? If so, that might also indicate the Uranus in Pisces exactly on the MC. Pisces rules delays. (Hopefully it also still will indicate him getting shown mercy. ) It's interesting too, the symbolism of Uranus (liberation) in Pisces (imprisonment, especially imprisonment of your own making- self-sabotaging behaviors and addictions, etc.). We shall wait and see.

FL

Hi, FL

Looking at K.no.S's advice, I wonder if the tenth house for the boyfriend (who is signified by the seventh) might be turned so that it is the 4th. That would make loads of sense because look who's sitting right on it -- Saturn. Now, Saturn is in trine to the moon (separating, though, hmmm.) But, the moon is in Saturn's sign and that's good.

Now if the boyfriend is signified by the seventh and ruled by Saturn in Virgo and the fourth is ruled by mercury in Aquarius, then, they're in mutual reception and I think the judge is going to go with medical treatment. Gotta hope so, anyway.

Ali