Can I blame Saturn for the cause of my relationship grief? Any way to deal?

Bloop

Well-known member
https://m.imgur.com/nXq3dxt

Throughout my life I feel like I’ve been getting “punished” for trying to seek close connection and general approval from people. It of course starts with my parents- my mother constantly acted bored in any intellectual or deep conversation with me, rather wanting to spend time nagging me about practical matters- even a nice car ride turns into her lecturing me. That seems to be her passion in life. So now I get bored whenever people in general try to tell me what to do- it feels disrespectful and like they’re trying to be my mother. And it makes me feel like I’m some dumb child with stupid ideas- and instead should be following what other people are telling me to do.

Or my father whose relationship with me is even worse, maybe. He was always an intellectual bully. I felt like I existed as a vessel for his ideas and opinions, simply I was only allowed to nod along with whatever he said, and if I disagreed he would fiercely put down my words. And someone my brain freezes and doesn’t know how to combat what he says in return with a logical/rationally based argument. He is not the only people who has treated me like this- it’s happened plenty of times when I’ve been “put in my place” verbally by another person- stranger or not. Even socially humiliated.

I don’t really get it because my chart is screaming about relationships given the 7th house. I feel like people, throughout my life, have made me miserable to the point where I try to escape. Or the opposite happens- I get along GREAT with a person (usually bright, lively, and take me seriously type folks) and then they become cold and start to avoid me or want to spend time with other folks- which really hurts me deeply. Or it could be both- some folks in my life are jeckyl and Hyde- nice one day and then make me regret spending time with them or opening up to them the next.

The only time I’ve been treated “well” by people is when I’m acting resentful and angry, and I passive aggressively take it out on them. At that point- I stop caring about what other people think of me. Those people suddenly try to “help” me and feed me positive words which also annoys me when I just want my anger validated.

The other time I’m treated well is when I literally completely close myself off emotionally from other people, and allow them to act or say whatever they want without getting deeply involved. I nod along out of duty and not because I actually care. Of course, then I get tired of those people and want to spend less time with them, but they try to butt their way into my life.

It feels like constant war with occasional moments of happiness, and the peace particularly comes when I limit my personal joy around people. the happiness is what keeps me in this cycle.

Given my north node, I have no idea what I’m destined to do- whether I’m supposed to be miserable and constantly at war. Whether I’m ever going to get to the point where I find happiness- whether it’s with myself or other people. I’m at the point where I’m exhausted and misanthropic- very little care in the world for other people’s issues, and a desire to be left alone and get involved with escapism.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Are you or have you been a university student? I think that's the best place to delve into intellectual questions. Your parents, even if highly educated, will have a different dynamic with you that goes back to your childhood and how they construed you then. Hopefully you can take an on-line university course or two through distance education (in these days of covid-19.)

You have a chart formation called a Thor's Hammer, with Saturn square Venus-Mercury-Pluto, and with these planets linked to the moon by two sesqui-squares. This is a very powerful, forceful dynamic. In little kids, it can result in a lot of acting-out before they learn to control their tempers. Were you a real hellion as a child? You probably grew out of it, but your parents may still feel that they need to be the ones in control when you're around.

Yet that moon in Cancer is so caring and emotional. Without the love and nurturing you wanted (and were entitled to) as a child, it can make you emotionally needy as an adult. Sometimes it's just easier to hide behind the Crab's shell and just snap your claws occasionally.

With your Mercury-Pluto conjunction in Scorpio, I think you have a real thirst for uncovering information. I think you'd make a good researcher, detective, or investigator of some kind. (Backed up by moon trine Jupiter.)

The 7th is the chart of long-term relationships, but note that it is always opposite the ascendant, the part of you other people first see. It is also the house of open enemies (vs. the secretive back-stabbers.) Without your meaning to do this in the slightest, it's possible that people don't know how to handle your Pluto-Mercury intensity.

With your NN in the 7th, I think your personal growth comes precisely from forming deep, long-term attachment to another person. To do that, you have to be prepared to vulnerable and to take risks. Overcome your fear of rejection-- and of your rejecting others. You've had to build a wall around your psyche for so long now, but the Crab has to shed her shell occasionally so that she can grow.
 

Bloop

Well-known member
Thank you for your response- greatly appreciated!

Are you or have you been a university student? I think that's the best place to delve into intellectual questions. Your parents, even if highly educated, will have a different dynamic with you that goes back to your childhood and how they construed you then. Hopefully you can take an on-line university course or two through distance education (in these days of covid-19.)

I’m actually currently in medical school- just started, and they made rearrangements because of Covid. It’s strange to me that Cove it started pretty much when Saturn entered Aquarius and Went back to Capricorn the same day I started school… And will go back to Aquarius when I finish my first semester. I have no clue what that means but it’s very intriguing to me.

The current subjects are very dry, and while some things are interesting, most of it is very frustrating. I feel like again I’m constantly being tested where I understand a concept but then when I try to apply it in class, other people start to correct me and my mistakes in a snide manner. It’s been very frustrating so far and I’ve nearly lost motivation. At least studying things like astrology which is all about teaching me to heal myself, I don’t feel connected to The subjects.

You have a chart formation called a Thor's Hammer, with Saturn square Venus-Mercury-Pluto, and with these planets linked to the moon by two sesqui-squares. This is a very powerful, forceful dynamic. In little kids, it can result in a lot of acting-out before they learn to control their tempers. Were you a real hellion as a child? You probably grew out of it, but your parents may still feel that they need to be the ones in control when you're around.

Thank you for telling me about the Thor’s hammer- I never thought to try to connect the cancer moon sign to my major squares in my chart!

Going along with what I said in the previous paragraph, this is likely the case. I learned recently that I was a very memorable student for my old singing instructor, not for good reason. Apparently I made things very hellish for her because I never practiced or did work. My parents were constantly frustrated by me because I procrastinated on my work and never for filled my duties or did anything on time. I constantly thought with them because they wanted me to do things that I just didn’t care about and I felt like they didn’t have my best interest at heart. Finally I got my **** together towards the end of college so that I could aim towards medicine. It sounded very interesting to me at the time, being able to take care of people, help them heal, learn about the human body in depth, maybe even lower by myself in the process. It also with some thing that would make my parents finally proud of me, and allow me to get out the house. I wanted to be left alone by them and not have them worry about my future. But alas the issue comes that I’m constantly struggling here in all my relationships and in my studies/duties. i’m still trying to figure out what it is I need to do so that everything can finally connect regarding fulfillment.

Yet that moon in Cancer is so caring and emotional. Without the love and nurturing you wanted (and were entitled to) as a child, it can make you emotionally needy as an adult. Sometimes it's just easier to hide behind the Crab's shell and just snap your claws occasionally.

With your Mercury-Pluto conjunction in Scorpio, I think you have a real thirst for uncovering information. I think you'd make a good researcher, detective, or investigator of some kind. (Backed up by moon trine Jupiter.)

This is very interesting to me because I am in a very research oriented field. Yet I’m still not sure why I feel so frustrated by studying biochemical topics. Could it be Saturn is causing issues here, ie Making it seem more duty oriented and boring rather than some thing fulfilling?

The 7th is the chart of long-term relationships, but note that it is always opposite the ascendant, the part of you other people first see. It is also the house of open enemies (vs. the secretive back-stabbers.) Without your meaning to do this in the slightest, it's possible that people don't know how to handle your Pluto-Mercury intensity.

Very very interesting. I’m kind of curious about the seventh house actually. So if the Taurus ascendant is what people initially see, how do they experience or get to know my Scorpio intensity? Is this unintentional intensity or aura the thing that pushes people away and causes them to be assholes towards me? Sometimes it does feel like the world is out to get me and I’m not quite sure what it is I do wrong… Like I can just stand there and exist, and that by itself seems to offend people.

With your NN in the 7th, I think your personal growth comes precisely from forming deep, long-term attachment to another person. To do that, you have to be prepared to vulnerable and to take risks. Overcome your fear of rejection-- and of your rejecting others. You've had to build a wall around your psyche for so long now, but the Crab has to shed her shell occasionally so that she can grow.

That does make sense. So it seems like the north node is more connected to the Venus Scorpio than anything, and might have barriers from the cancer moon being “crabby.” I can see that the “growth” or Sagittarius nn Comes from long-term committed relationships.

But I’m also wondering where might the sun and mars conjunction come into play here? Because I already have so much focus on the seventh house but it just seems like the sun and mars is another thing taken away from me which makes things frustrating. I am unable to bring out my sun on my own and I’m constantly depending on other people to make me feel fulfilled as what it seems. And already I have a lot of issues with relationships because of the other placement. I wonder if this issue is what’s causing me to feel unfulfilled, like I have no identity and I have no say in relationships.

I’m also curious if it has anything to do with sports or exercise? Instead of being relationship focused like with my north node and Venus. I don’t really exercise regularly but my intuition tells me it’s something especially important in my life. I also used to play sports and felt so good competing with other people!
 

waybread

Well-known member
Bloop, I know how it feels to get pushback from people, when I am simply opening my mouth. Dunno why this happens, either. However, I've learned that when in a group discussion, it's best not to be the first or second person to speak, but to wait a while until I get the sense of the room. Then, I may not agree with the others, but I can better present an alternative opinion, once I'm clued into the way other people are thinking.

Can you think of anything about your personal appearance that might put people off? Anything about you that might come across to someone else as a know-it-all? (Hey, I'm on your side here-- but am trying to be analytical.)

Also, when you get this kind of pushback from people, are you seeing commonalities in what they tell you? If you see patterns in their behavior, this might be something to look at.

Even without your meaning to, your Saturn square Pluto is a very strong energy that many people would experience as negative. It can carry a streak of cruelty, if not guarded against. On the other hand, it will encourage you to work extremely hard in your chosen field, which can be beneficial if you are ambitious (as I think you are.)

What I'm seeing in your posts is a fair bit of heartbreak in your interactions with people, but not so much an interest in being the listener or receiver of information that they wish to express. Do you think people would call you a good listener?

Boredom, alas, is a fact of life. Students generally have to start with the basic survey courses, regardless of whether they care about all that stuff or not, before getting into the more specialized courses.

Sun Mars should give you a lot of energy (great for athletics,) but the problem with all those 7th house placements, as you suggest, is that you are likely to be very oriented towards partnering with someone, whether you have such a relationship or not.

The 7th house rules committed partnerships of various kinds, however, so it could be someone like a business partner, a racquet ball partner, &c. The 7th house also rules litigation, so if medicine loses its appeal, you might consider law school.
 

blackbery

Well-known member
Dear Bloop, Try to move to a foreign land & away from the toxic energy which drains you, you are correct, the Ve-Sa Sq brings a sense of isolation & despair but you are better off keeping away from many people who will use & abuse you. Maturity & self-love bring happiness & you only need one person who is loving & supportive & ignore all those who bring you pain. Choose happiness, chose & create your own life & try to involve your life with foreigners for they will bring you joy. Your spouse will very likely be from a different culture, different religion, different land. Keep going through the dark times, people have their own issues which they 'take out' on others. Educate yourself, keep principles & ethics honest for Sa rewards those who follow the right path. You will get better & better as you grow older. You are studying medicine? Is that what you want to do or pressure from parents? You might want to consider law or psychiatry for your mind likes to probe deep & your voice has charm & ability to soothe. Hypnotism might interest you. Search online & there are many videos for free for philosophy and forums to engage in conversation with others. Find your soul tribe. You have a mind that need stimulation or you will get bored very easily. Internet is excellent tool to help with this for you are not limited to where you live or your family anymore.
 
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