Sun-Pluto aspect

I've had a thread about the Moon Pluto aspects and some very interesting things were written there.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62323

Now it would be interesting to learn something about the Sun-Pluto aspects. I don't have it so I don't know how it works.

I want to ask those who have any major Sun-Pluto aspect, even if it is a positive aspect about its influence. I suppose the relationship with the father and with the father's family is very important and has a great influence on the native.

Probably the father or another person from the father's lineage has something to do with police, military, psychology, the secret service. Most probably, in the lineage of the father, there are events connected with murder, major crimes and other events where some crime or something else was the cause of death or great suffering for the relatives of the native.
Also, the father might have a bad relationship with his family and the family migth be angry with him.

What is your relationship with your father or even with your grandfather (the father of your father) if you have such an aspect? And what was the relationship of your father with his own father?

Was there any manipulation or were there any dominance issues with your father or probably he used to have such problems in his family?

Ouch! I hate this aspect. A very nasty one too if I may say so. I've never got on with my father. I practically argue with him literally everyday. Even the smallest of smallest things turn have sometimes turned into a 1 hour long row. Sun from 3rd square Pluto in my 5th for me. 5th house also being associated with the Sun and the house of Leo makes things a lot more difficult here. Pluto certainly does not like this placement for sure. A bitter childhood is what I've noticed is what people with this aspect tend to experience, especially their relationship with their fathers. I think it also damages the self-confidence levels of a subject and instils tremendous fear in us.

The_Saturnian said:

Ouch! I hate this aspect. A very nasty one too if I may say so. I've never got on with my father. I practically argue with him literally everyday. Even the smallest of smallest things turn have sometimes turned into a 1 hour long row. Sun from 3rd square Pluto in my 5th for me. 5th house also being associated with the Sun and the house of Leo makes things a lot more difficult here. Pluto certainly does not like this placement for sure. A bitter childhood is what I've noticed is what people with this aspect tend to experience, especially their relationship with their fathers. I think it also damages the self-confidence levels of a subject and instils tremendous fear in us.

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Tell me about your father's family, even several generations back in time. Was there any crime, murder or something secret that has led to the suffering of members of your father's family? Probably your great grandfather or a great grandmother? Or somebody else from his lineage?

Did your father and his father understand each other?

Crime wise I've never heard of my father mentioning anything. My dad spent a fair bit of his childhood with his grand parents. His grandfather treated him fairly, but his father didn't. Again there was the resentment of son to father. Even till this day, my father still looks back on his earlier years and often criticises his father and the way he behaved and treated him and his siblings.

The fundamental difference between my relationship with my dad and his with his dad's was that I stand my ground and do not tolerate almost anything negative from my dad, whereas he was an obedient son to his father and never even raised his tone to him.

The_Saturnian said:

Crime wise I've never heard of my father mentioning anything. My dad spent a fair bit of his childhood with his grand parents. His grandfather treated him fairly, but his father didn't. Again there was the resentment of son to father. Even till this day, my father still looks back on his earlier years and often criticises his father and the way he behaved and treated him and his siblings.

The fundamental difference between my relationship with my dad and his with his dad's was that I stand my ground and do not tolerate almost anything negative from my dad, whereas he was an obedient son to his father and never even raised his tone to him.

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I've read that people with Moon Pluto aspect are often raised by their grandparents and very often there is an influential grandmother in the childhood.
So, I suppose that it is the same with the Sun-Pluto aspect but instead of an influential grandmother, there is an influential grandfather.

It would be interesting if you ask your father or other relative from his lineage if there were cases of crime or madness in his family. Probably there were victims of crime. Or there were very influential men with Plutonian professions. Or some story concerning the father-son relationship that is repeating in the family.

Do you know anything about the relationship between your grandfather and his father? It's interesting to trace these issues back in the generations.

Do your father and grandfather have any Sun-Pluto aspect in their charts? Repeating aspects can be found in several generations of one family.

SunW said:

I've read that people with Moon Pluto aspect are often raised by their grandparents and very often there is an influential grandmother in the childhood.
So, I suppose that it is the same with the Sun-Pluto aspect but instead of an influential grandmother, there is an influential grandfather.

It would be interesting if you ask your father or other relative from his lineage if there were cases of crime or madness in his family. Probably there were victims of crime. Or there were very influential men with Plutonian professions. Or some story concerning the father-son relationship that is repeating in the family.

Do you know anything about the relationship between your grandfather and his father? It's interesting to trace these issues back in the generations.

Do your father and grandfather have any Sun-Pluto aspect in their charts? Repeating aspects can be found in several generations of one family.

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I've read that people with Moon Pluto aspect are often raised by their grandparents and very often there is an influential grandmother in the childhood.
So, I suppose that it is the same with the Sun-Pluto aspect but instead of an influential grandmother, there is an influential grandfather.

Yes there is logic in what you say, because the father is represented by Sun and mother by Moon. So, yes, it is likely that a subject may mention that they have had similar harsh experiences but from their mother/grandmother.

It would be interesting if you ask your father or other relative from his lineage if there were cases of crime or madness in his family. Probably there were victims of crime. Or there were very influential men with Plutonian professions. Or some story concerning the father-son relationship that is repeating in the family.

To the best of the knowledge of my family's history there were quite a few people who took the definition of reasonable discipline to a realm almost as good as hell. The possessiveness was evident in the men of my dad's family. Growing up in the family was never easy. Even I was brought up using the "failure is not tolerated under any circumstances" approach. I think there was one particular case of unusual madness, but crime wise there are none as far as my father knows.

Do you know anything about the relationship between your grandfather and his father? It's interesting to trace these issues back in the generations.

I only spent approximately 7-10 years of my life knowing and interacting with my grandfather. He passed away back in Summer 2000 when I had just turned 15 at the time. So there wasn't much I got to speak to him about the family and its history. From what my father has said, it appears he didn't particularly like his father, but as obedient son, kept his peace and opinions to himself. He never retaliated (unlike how I do with my dad), and heeded his every word. It was as if everything my grandfather told him to do was the very words from God himself. So in conclusion I think there was a certain bitterness in the relationship, but kept at bay.

Do your father and grandfather have any Sun-Pluto aspect in their charts? Repeating aspects can be found in several generations of one family

Not sure of grandfather as we do not know what his birth of time was, so I couldn't comment there. Though my father's chart does not have any major aspects, he happens to have to Sun semi-square Pluto. I guess even this was sufficient was cause the bitterness, but as the semi-square is classed as a minor negative aspect, I don't think the tension between the two was as much, as it is between my father and I.

SunW said:

I want to ask those who have any major Sun-Pluto aspect, even if it is a positive aspect about its influence. I suppose the relationship with the father and with the father's family is very important and has a great influence on the native.

Was there any manipulation or were there any dominance issues with your father or probably he used to have such problems in his family?

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Exact Sun-Pluto square reporting in!

This aspect has got my interest lately. It has generally an unpleasant effect in a variety of areas, the relationship with the father being one of them.

My Pluto is in Libra and I think it is badly placed in this Sign. This makes the experience worse.

I despised my father. He was a domineering, violent drunkard and I, even as a child didn't understand what my wonderful, caring, intelligent and educated mother was doing in such a relationship. I was just sixteen when one day I witnessed my father, in his usual fits of anger was about to hit my mother. I prevented it by beating him to a pulp. It was a quite brutal showdown that I had been expecting for some time and I prepared for it. He was rushed to hospital afterwards.

I told my mother she is divorced now and I am the one-man divorce court. The man won't live with her again. I collected his items, threw everything out of the house and I ordered the installation of a new door lock.

After my father recuperated he attacked me twice to take revenge on me and to get back to our family. On both occasions I beat him severely. At last he understood the situation and disappeared from our life, completely ruined.

Carolus Optimus said:

Exact Sun-Pluto square reporting in!

This aspect has got my interest lately. It has generally an unpleasant effect in a variety of areas, the relationship with the father being one of them.

My Pluto is in Libra and I think it is badly placed in this Sign. This makes the experience worse.

I despised my father. He was a domineering, violent drunkard and I, even as a child didn't understand what my wonderful, caring, intelligent and educated mother was doing in such a relationship. I was just sixteen when one day I witnessed my father, in his usual fits of anger was about to hit my mother. I prevented it by beating him to a pulp. It was a quite brutal showdown that I had been expecting for some time and I prepared for it. He was rushed to hospital afterwards.

I told my mother she is divorced now and I am the one-man divorce court. The man won't live with her again. I collected his items, threw everything out of the house and I ordered the installation of a new door lock.

After my father recuperated he attacked me twice to take revenge on me and to get back to our family. On both occasions I beat him severely. At last he understood the situation and disappeared from our life, completely ruined.

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Since there is drinking, do you have Sun in Pisces, in the 12th house or in an aspect with Neptune?

Do you know anything about the relationship between your father and his father? Can you give some information about your grandfather? Did he live for a long time and was there anything connected with Pluto influence in his life?

SunW said:

Since there is drinking, do you have Sun in Pisces, in the 12th house or in an aspect with Neptune?

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Neither, but I have Mars square Sun with Mars in Pisces, this shows the father is a violent alcoholic.

SunW said:

Do you know anything about the relationship between your father and his father? Can you give some information about your grandfather? Did he live for a long time and was there anything connected with Pluto influence in his life?

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Not much, but I know their relationship had been strained, my father being the black sheep of the family.

Grandfather was a well educated, high ranking police officer until he had been sacked right after the Second World War on grounds of being a "class enemy", i.e. an anti-communist. He spent a couple of months in a prison, where he was beaten by communist thugs to make him commit he is guilty of war crimes. After the unsuccessful attempt they released him, he had been put under surveillance and harrassed by the communist secret police for more than fifteen years and got only menial jobs to provide for his family. He could not stand the indignities forever: finally he committed suicide. He was some fifty-five years old when it happened.

As you can see there are lots of typically Plutonian elements here, I realized it myself.

I would like to ask a question SunW: I wonder how my Pluto-Sun square would manifest if I had a son? Is this something there is no escape from and is fatedly repeats itself in a family's father-son relationships?

Carolus Optimus said:

I would like to ask a question SunW: I wonder how my Pluto-Sun square would manifest if I had a son? Is this something there is no escape from and is fatedly repeats itself in a family's father-son relationships?

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Well, I'm not a specialist, but there are certain things in families that go to the next generation. It is important to see the chart of the child and the relationship with the father that is shown there.

I think that there is a big chance for you to have a son because you have family karma that goes from father to son. I think that the family energy wants everything to be solved, repaired. There ia a problem but there is also healing. Your son might not follow such a destiny. You will be one of the participants in this relationship so it depends on you to some degree.

After all, there are psychoanalysis and Family constellations.


I wonder if your father had started drinking after his father's suicide.

SunW said:

Now it would be interesting to learn something about the Sun-Pluto aspects. I don't have it so I don't know how it works.

I want to ask those who have any major Sun-Pluto aspect, even if it is a positive aspect about its influence. I suppose the relationship with the father and with the father's family is very important and has a great influence on the native.

Click to expand...

I have Sun [in virgo] sextile Pluto [in scorpio]... tho the relationship i have with my father was very good in childhood, it degraded considerably in time, now it is very much a love/hate relationship that i have with him, i could never understand him nor he did me and this will probably never change. He is very imposing/dominant character of a an agressive nature. Mostly passive but it also turns direct. There is a lot of secrecy [hence the influence of scorpio] about him and his family & also yes, he has a bad relationship with his family. Relationship with his father has been inexistent for years. All i know about my father's father is that he is a drunk, also very imposing, he was very violent with his family and also he had something to do with the military, but that is all i know, as i said there is a lot of secrecy and also an aura of negativity surrounding that family.

I personaly never liked to be around his part of the family, plus his part of the family is of no importance for me and i don't know much about them either.


Hope this information is of any use

CristalSea said:

Hope this information is of any use

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Yes! Thank you!

It describes the aspect very well and it's similar to the stories of the other people who already commented on it.

I have a tight conjunction of Sun, Mars and Pluto in Scorpio in the 5th house. It seems okay for me, my father is a very loving man. I feel bad sometimes that I am the one distancing from him.

I actually like the Sun-Pluto aspect. It gives an individual a lot of strength and depth. I have a moon-pluto aspect too.

Solstice said:

I have a tight conjunction of Sun, Mars and Pluto in Scorpio in the 5th house. It seems okay for me, my father is a very loving man. I feel bad sometimes that I am the one distancing from him.

I actually like the Sun-Pluto aspect. It gives an individual a lot of strength and depth. I have a moon-pluto aspect too.

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This is quite unusual and very interesting to note. Is there any aspect to your ascendant from this tight conjunction? Do you also distance yourself from your mother too?

Actually, I usually distance myself from my family members. I am less open with them. My mother is less affectionate than my father and usually we butt heads but I think she's okay too. Although, in my childhood she was a bit harsh but I can't say she physically abused me. My mother and I have a venus-moon DW.

I didn't think a tight conjunction of Mars, Sun and Pluto would make someone who would distance themselves from people. Strange though indeed. Do you experience bouts of anger/frustration/hatred?

Solstice said:

I have a tight conjunction of Sun, Mars and Pluto in Scorpio in the 5th house. It seems okay for me, my father is a very loving man. I feel bad sometimes that I am the one distancing from him.

I actually like the Sun-Pluto aspect. It gives an individual a lot of strength and depth. I have a moon-pluto aspect too.

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Was there violence, crime, murder in your father's family, probably something about your great-grandparents? Were there any people in your father's lineage that had something to do with police, military, secret service or people who were participants in a war?

The_Saturnian said:

I didn't think a tight conjunction of Mars, Sun and Pluto would make someone who would distance themselves from people. Strange though indeed. Do you experience bouts of anger/frustration/hatred?

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Well, it's not really the physical distance but more of emotional. I am not as open to my family than to my friends. My siblings find it easy to share details about their lives to the family, whereas I do not.

I do have bouts of anger and frustration but not hatred.

SunW said:

Was there violence, crime, murder in your father's family, probably something about your great-grandparents? Were there any people in your father's lineage that had something to do with police, military, secret service or people who were participants in a war?

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On the contrary, murder was on my mother's side. My grandfather was murdered a few years before I was born. His death anniversary also happens to be my younger sister's birthday. Weird, right?

On my father's side, I don't know if my grandparents or ancestors were involved in a war but I have a cousin who is a cop.

Does my conjunction indicate such?

Solstice said:

On the contrary, murder was on my mother's side. My grandfather was murdered a few years before I was born. His death anniversary also happens to be my younger sister's birthday. Weird, right?

On my father's side, I don't know if my grandparents or ancestors were involved in a war but I have a cousin who is a cop.

Does my conjunction indicate such?

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It will be easier if we have your natal chart. It will show us more details.