IleneK said:Along with Z's comment about Moon being void of course, I might add that a romantic interest of your husband would be the 5th from his [the 7th] house, or the radical 11th, which is ruled by Venus rather than Mars.
Along with Z's comment about Moon being void of course, I might add that a romantic interest of your husband would be the 5th from his [the 7th] house, or the radical 11th, which is ruled by Venus rather than Mars.
This is actually not true. The only people who are shown by the Fifth house are children. Partners (clandestine, non-serious, adulterous, or otherwise) will be shown by the Seventh. Except in cases like this where we have to investigate other options because the First and Seventh houses are spoken for.
Here we want to see 1) suspicious planets aspecting the suspected cheater 2) planets in the dignities of the suspected cheater 3) planets in the house of the suspected cheater. Doubly so if any of those planets happen to also be peregrine.
Venuschild, unfortunately the void of course doesn't have to do with separating aspects, but about the Moon's applications. So the quote from his text doesn't really help anything other than to show that even though the aspect is no longer applying or building, it doesn't mean it doesn't have a lingering effect throughout the separating process.
In this chart here, the Moon is not Void because she applies a sextile to Mercury within their orb of 9.5 degrees.
This is actually not true. The only people who are shown by the Fifth house are children. Partners (clandestine, non-serious, adulterous, or otherwise) will be shown by the Seventh. Except in cases like this where we have to investigate other options because the First and Seventh houses are spoken for.
VenusChild said:Care to elaborate on this more, I and I'm sure others would appreciate it, and citing old vanguard authors really wakes up the true students!
Kaioushi, I asked a query years ago aboard another forum, Angelicus Merlin, moderated and owned by Dorothy J. Kovach. This aspect made as it changed signs caused a serious debate/argument between the participants, quotes like "Shame on you for entertaining such", were the order of the day, and all knew Lilly did this, wrote of it, but the consensus was Lilly was in error on this concept of his methodology.
However, Deborah Houlding puts emphasis on romances within the fifth as in her course:
Lilly however, contrary to John Gadbury his rival, yet at one time his friend, keeps the relationship matter in the 7th, Not the 5th as Gadbury deviated from prior antiquity consensus.
As you can see I'm the Moon in 12th, he Saturn in 5th . The thing that scares me is the Mars -Saturn conjunction in the 5th. The other two things I noticed is that she is Mars, and the Moon is not making any aspects to Saturn. I need help interpreting this
Unfortunately I don't have much else to say about that. The text you quoted is only discussing the particulars of separation which is a fairly open and close concept. It begins at 6' and carries on through the moeity of the two planets involved. Once they are further than this, their effect is null.
Quote:
venuschild
Kaioushi, I asked a query years ago aboard another forum, Angelicus Merlin, moderated and owned by Dorothy J. Kovach. This aspect made as it changed signs caused a serious debate/argument between the participants, quotes like "Shame on you for entertaining such", were the order of the day, and all knew Lilly did this, wrote of it, but the consensus was Lilly was in error on this concept of his methodology.
Well, I am sorry that you found such reactions and I cannot speak for those individuals. Even today, on this board, you will find individuals whose interpretations of charts are swift one-liners of "The Moon is Void, it's a no". This causes a serious eye-roll as they are often the same individuals who believe late ascendants mean charts cannot be read.
One of the things that seems to never be considered in any of these house discussions is the anthropology of the Time circumstances. The times were different; perceptions of romance and marriage were as substantially different in the 13th century as they are today between western cultures and strict Indian or strict Moslem. In the society of the middle ages the concept of romance that doesn't lead to marriage was nothing like today. In fact to a great extent there was no romance, it was simply arranged marriage by the parents. So romances that we continuously deal with here on the forum simply didn't exist except in a 12th house clandestine way.
Unfortunately almost no traditional or even modern astrologers are also cultural anthropologists; in fact I don't know a single one. Perhaps Dr. Rob Hand might have thoughts about it. So most astrologers who quote line and verse from William Lilly and Al Biruni and others simply have no concept of how incredibly different cultural attitudes and mores were 700 years ago from today's western culture.
Hello neonwilderness and welcome to our mixed-ability astrological learning forum
where many of us are also complete beginners
and others of us have many years of astrological learning completed
dr. farr for example has more than fifty years of astrological study
venuschild said:So I take it you agree the aspect to the Sun(ruling his 8th) is long gone?
Note I'm Not saying Lilly was wrong,I'm just saying the devoted pre-1700 horary students aboard Angelicus Merlin Forum really doubted Lilly on this method of Out-of Sign perfection coming to be. You have prompted me to re-evaluate that particular horary over a decade ago when I had been polluted or was still in ignorance of concepts like Antiscia and Contrascions only conjuncting planet positions as I had been misinformed by reading Anthony Louis's understanding when Lilly points out to utilize the Ptolemaic aspects to the planets from Antiscia, that will make drastic differences.
tikana said:However, i am bothered by whole Moon./Saturn relationship
It hasn't changed as there are so many cultures abroad and in this nation, the USA, note the radical deviations across the USA such as California verses Texas mentality then contrast politics and religion. WHEW!
Lilly focuses on the 7th in relationships whether marriage, lovers, affairs, virginity of the maid. Deborah Houlding in her online horary course incorporates outers but they DO NOT rule houses nor signs! Praise that astro icon, she didn't totally deviate from pre-1700 documentation as many post 1700 have strongly confused the data within horary to use modern planets as house and sign rulers.Quote:
Originally Posted by venuschild
So I take it you agree the aspect to the Sun(ruling his 8th) is long gone?
The Sun's aspect with Saturn? Yes, it's definitely separated, but why are we looking to his Eighth house?
Hmmm I think Clinton Soule is back??? Definitely something reminds me of him....
Kaiousei, you will have to forgive me for being less informative as I had a lot on my plate yesterday but this should explain why the last aspect of the Moon is crucial in this horary.Quote:
Originally Posted by venuschild
So I take it you agree the aspect to the Sun(ruling his 8th) is long gone?
The Sun's aspect with Saturn? Yes, it's definitely separated, but why are we looking to his Eighth house?