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  #1  
Unread 06-14-2014, 01:57 PM
capleo2scorpio capleo2scorpio is offline
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Exclamation Higher octaves headache

I'm having a hard time with digging up the correct information about higher octaves. Does anyone know in depth knowledge on the subject? Especially conjunctions to natal planets. Have you got higher octave planets conjunct or opposition your personal planets? If you do, how does it effect you and how do you utilize it? I just realized I have many and wants to find the real meaning behind it all, whether it is karmic, a benefit or a burden.

I have:
*pluto conjunct mars in scorpio ( orb 4)
*Uranus conjunct mercury in saggitarius ( orb 4)
*Neptune conjunct venus and sun in Capricorn ( orb 3 and 7)
Asteroid wise:
*moon conjunct ceres in virgo (orb 3)
*chiron opposition Saturn (orb 5)

What does it all really mean?

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  #2  
Unread 06-14-2014, 03:13 PM
capleo2scorpio capleo2scorpio is offline
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Re: Higher octaves headache

A bunch of views and no takers? Come one guys, take a shot, spill the beans. Maybe I should say this thread is open for public discussion, it's not a critically researched thesis with literature review references. Just give me your thoughts if you have any insight.
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  #3  
Unread 06-15-2014, 07:47 PM
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miquar miquar is offline
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Re: Higher octaves headache

Hi. You should really put your chart up so that people can see the bigger picture around these aspects.

It is very interesting that all three of the outer planets are conjunct their lower octave planets in your chart. Any strong connection between any personal planet and any transpersonal planet suggests a conflict between acting purely as an individual, and acting as a mediator for collective energies. As with all conflicts, reconciliation is possible, but it requires conscious effort at keeping a balance.

Mercury, in and of itself, is trying to meet a very individual need by accumulating information and using it to create frameworks through which new experiences can be quickly understood and worked with. Uranus is trying to understand things in such a way that one can play a role in the evolution of the collective of which one is part. Mercury in Sagittarius seeks a shared vision under which people can unite with a sense of shared aspiration and optimism. So the sign placement of your Mercury Uranus conjunction may help you to integrate these functions.

Venus is the urge to be of value to the collective, but not to surrender the self to the collective. Neptune is prepared to sacrifice the self to the collective in order to escape the burden of individuality, and to redeem some collective wound. Here the conjunction is in Capricorn. In one sense, this adds to the conflict because Capricorn is an earth sign, and earthy consciousness values boundaries. But for Capricornian consciousness, the need for individual integrity is very much entwined with the sense of obligation to the collective. So again, there is something here that can work in your favour.

Mars conjunct Pluto in Scorpio suggests that your Mars, although in one of its traditional signs of rulership, will feel somewhat weighed down in one way or another. Of the conjunctions listed above, this is probably going to the be the one that will need the most careful handling. You may sometimes feel as though you must fight for your survival, and at other times that you must keep a lid on your assertiveness/aggression in case all hell breaks loose. Where Uranus is moved by ideas, and Neptune is moved by compassion, Pluto is moved by primal emotions. Society is less likely to thank us for our Plutonian contributions than it is for our Uranian and Neptunian offerings. Give yourself safety valves - perhaps in the form of physical exercise or some form of emotionally charged creativity. And if you get drawn into some 'war' against some evil in society, try to maintain a sense of objectivity along side that. If you get into power struggles, try to see beneath the crude surface appearance of the situation.

You could see these aspects as burdensome if you want to just live a complacent life and then die. But these aspects suggests that you don't want this, and that you will be happier if you take up the challenge to act as a mediator for change on a collective level in one way or another.
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  #4  
Unread 06-16-2014, 04:56 AM
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Re: Higher octaves headache

I don't concern myself with "higher octaves." (Like higher octane??) Basically traditional astrology didn't use the three modern planets beyond Saturn. When the new astrology materialized in the late 19th century, it was part of the theosophical movement, which was deeply into esoteric spirituality. It was hard for the theosophists to make sense of the "outers" yet there they were. Some genius devised the idea that the modern outers were "higher octaves" of traditional planets: Neptune was supposedly a higher octave of Venus, for example.

I have been studying modern astrology for well over 20 years, and still have no idea how you would use the concept of "higher octaves" in an ordinary chart reading. Although Miquar has done pretty well. So i suggest you just take the plain meanings of the modern outers. At least while you are initially learning the basics of astrology.
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  #5  
Unread 06-17-2014, 02:27 PM
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Re: Higher octaves headache

Hi. Yes I don't love these kinds of theosophical terms. But I do try to understand what various pairs of planets have in common. I find this invaluable in chart synthesis. For example Moon and Mars both share a concern with the satisfaction of instinctual needs; Sun and Venus with self-worth; Sun and Jupiter with hope, etc. The notion of higher octave planets reminds us that the Mercury, Venus and Mars have things in common with Uranus, Neptune and Pluto respectively.
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Last edited by miquar; 06-17-2014 at 02:31 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 06-17-2014, 06:03 PM
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Culpeper Culpeper is offline
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Re: Higher octaves headache

This higher octave theory seems to have begun with the Theosophists. Even reading their books I cannot really find how they used it. However, one astrologer, and I cannot remember who, wrote that it involves a relationship between the very inner and outer planets. The outer planets move very slowly through the signs. So to find the condition of Neptune in a chart, look at its "lower octave" Venus. If Venus is found to be in its fall, retrograde, close to the Sun and in the 6th house, Neptune will be in the same bad condition. Of course the opposite will be true if Venus is found in good condition.

You can easily look up what modern astrologer say the outer planets do in a chart. However astrology is a matter of practice. You have to read many charts and see what they really indicate.
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Unread 06-17-2014, 08:29 PM
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Smile Re: Higher octaves headache

Definitely a highly charged chart here, which we would like to see visually. I learned about these concepts via the work of A.T.Mann in his work called 'The Round Art'. The way I see it is that the Higher Octaves resonate to a higher vibrational level of awareness. It is the difference between the lower instinctive perceptions in contrast to a higher, more advanced level of understanding; the lower and the Higher minds, so to speak. I too have a Mercury/Uranus conjunct, which has definitely helped me to better understand concepts and theories more easily and with greater clarity, than through my normal thinking mind. I do believe that I receive input from the Higher Intellect now on many occasions, especially in writing, whereas while young, my mind was all over the map [Mercury sq Neptune]. Through gaining access to the higher octave of the mind, it is about learning to control and direct the mind, rather than having the mind control the individual.
I think that the conjuncts show a greater potential for experiencing that differentiation in one's lifetime. It is obvious with Pluto in that a transformation takes place during the lifetime, in the proper use of one's power and will, whereas the lower octave of Mars is often subject to anger, aggression and the misuse of power and will. It is a matter of learning control of one's desires and ambitions. With Venus, the higher octave is about learning about the divinity of love that goes beyond the physical. I would be interested in learning how you experience the trio of Sun/Venus and Neptune in Capricorn...
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Unread 06-18-2014, 04:40 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Higher octaves headache

I pay little attention to the "higher octave" theory re to the outer planets: for me, when thinking about one of the outers "overall", I consider the planet to represent a mixture of influences/significations, derived from the 7 planets (here my thinking is along the lines of Charles Carter)
-Uranus (for me) = Mercury+Mars, with some admixture of the Sun
-Neptune = Venus+Jupiter+Moon
-Pluto = Mars+Saturn, with more than a little admixture of the Sun
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  #9  
Unread 06-18-2014, 05:09 AM
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Re: Higher octaves headache

Or we could just consider the trans-Saturn planets as their own planets. The outers don't actually need, today, to be understood in terms of the traditional planets because we've had decades to see how they function in horoscopes.
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 06-18-2014, 09:28 PM
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Re: Higher octaves headache

dr. farr's associations make a lot of sense to me. I'd probably add the Moon to the Pluto list, as both planets perceive life's journey in terms of the navigation of cycles of fate.

I think the term 'higher octave' is unfortunate because it somehow suggests that the paired planets are one principle, like two keys on a piano which are an octave apart and yet are still given the same name. In a sense, all of the planetary archetypes are part of one energy, but aside from that, each planet symbolises an archetype in its own right. But I do believe that the notion of higher octaves points to the existence of three special relationships amongst the planetary pantheon. These relationships bridge the gap between the personal and the transpersonal: personal mind-collective mind; personal relating-transpersonal relating; personal will-transpersonal will. This is a unique type of relationship, which is different to the kind of relationship we see between, say, Mercury and Jupiter, or Venus and Mars.

The so-called lower octave planet is the best vehicle for bringing the energy of the so-called higher octave planet effectively into the world. Uranian insight must be communicated clearly so that the minds of other individuals can be opened to the insight. Neptunian compassion must be expressed through actual relationships if it is to touch the lives of others. Plutonian crises must be faced with courage if we are to capitalise on the opportunities they bring.

Like Kimbermoon I have a Mercury Uranus aspect - an exact trine. I feel it very strongly and I love having it - especially while I've been having my Uranus half return this last year or two. It makes me wish I had a good Venus Neptune contact, and perhaps even a Mars Pluto trine! I've seen people really struggle with a tense aspect between a personal planet and its 'higher octave' though - like it causes an overload with regard to the dimension of experience symbolised by the personal planet.

All in all, I think these relationships are as important to keep in the back of one's mind as any other relationship between two planets.
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True freedom and the end of suffering is living in such a way as if you had completely chosen whatever you feel or experience at this moment.

Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 118
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  #11  
Unread 11-14-2014, 01:57 AM
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GoatKidd GoatKidd is offline
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Hi,
This is very strange, because I have an eerily similar chart.
Sun Venus Neptune conjunct in 10th house Cap
Moon in Leo 5th house
Mercury conj Uranus 9th house Sag
Mars conj Pluto and south node 7th house Scorpio
Pisces asc

Sound familiar? Spooky!

I'd love to compare notes...

Warm Wishes,
GoatKidd
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