Cons & Cheaters

What aspects can create liars/Cheaters or those who will be willing to play 'unfair'?

Thats a tuff one!
But I think maybe Neptune badly aspected, creating Illusion and dishonesty, wanting to please but at the same time creating unobtainable goals which then escalate into deception.
Jupiter negatively aspected can over expand,wanting to achieve quickly in anything, shortcuts, getting where it wants by any means!
There are many facets of deception??.
Found this here

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13843

Expanding on what I cee said, I would think that Mercury plays a part. So possibly stressful aspects between Merc and Neptune for example. I wonder also if Merc in stressful aspect to Mars or Venus may cause something like that as well. Maybe also challenging aspects to planets in the 3rd house? Or ruler of 3rd with hard aspects...

One of my friends tends to "stretch" the truth quite a bit. Lo and behold, in his chart he has Mercury in the 6th house Pisces Square Neptune in the 3rd house Sag.

Cafeastrology notes:

...Stretching the truth, whether done consciously or not (or a bit of both), is associated with this position. Bored with anything dull, routine, or lifeless, you often dramatize or connect higher meaning to ordinary events and situations. You are often vague in your communications, purposefully or not, as you resist being pinned down to any one opinion or stance...

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http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/mercuryneptuneaspects.html

I would think that for a "cheater", Mars has to be involved somehow as this puts action into play...

I feel Neptune and jupiter don't mean to decieve.....but can!
I read again what you wrote Blackempress
Those that play 'unfair' to me says someone who sets out to decieve
This is a different type of deception, more calculated, cold, pure intention!
So maybe pluto, saturn?
A different type of deception!

But yes, a neg mercury.......Stillone!

He flits around in this world and the lower....charmer with words!

Does he mean it, was it with intent, is he playing, was it to see your reaction???

The shamen, he changes shape and mood to suit!

Thank You I-Cee & Still one. These are the 'ideas' we conjure or have read but now when I'm analyzing charts it interests me to know 'How much a person is trustworthy' because I've noticed quite a bunch trying to 'sneak' or mildly 'twist' something to adjust the situation.

I would agree to bad aspects of Mercury/Neptune/Mars but what are those 'Bad aspects'?
One that I read bout was Mercury-Mars being behind shoplifters.

Amongst the signs I deem Scorpio to the intentional manipulation & a planet like Mars in it wouldn't mind playing 'dirty'.

The Links & the 'friend' share were insightful. Thank you.

Blackempress said:

What aspects can create liars/Cheaters or those who will be willing to play 'unfair'?

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Mercury in hard aspect to Neptune, Mars in hard aspect to Neptune(relationship cheaters). Sometimes Sun in hard aspect to Neptune. Moon in hard aspect to Neptune is slightly delusional and doesn't seen things clearly, not literally but figuratively speaking as in not seeing the situation as other people see it.

Me

My chart. Lol.

I'm being partly serious. My chart seems to be hand-picked for the ultimate con-artist (I attached an image at the end of the post). If it were not for my strict moral code, and my upbringing, I would be a force to be reckoned with. I'd make an absolute killing in wall street if I felt ok with breaking the rules and working within the world of business (I hate business though).

I have the ability to be a fantastic liar. When I was 11, I tricked a psychatrist, then a panel of child psychologists into thinking I had depression and attempted to commit suicide. As a child, I fooled professional MD's. I didn't intend to do that, it just happened when I lied about a question I was asked because I was in a bad mood. After I realised what this meant, I kept the charade going. One of the most painful things for me to experience is being caught. Ended up getting put in outpatient therapy in the hospital for a month. No one suspected a thing. I intuitively, without thinking, knew what to say, do, act, etc. to keep the tangled web ever tangled and growing. I ended up getting put on citalopram which ultimately lead to a life altering year after that, but it ended in a really good way. I told my mother the truth of this story 2 years ago. She actually wasn't too shocked, or upset. She sort of suspected I was lying (she's quite psychic), but still reconized that I needed help with other things (which is true).

Moral of the story is, I'm good at duping people. I only do it when it's justified, and that is one of the "worst" examples, I have pulled. There's many other stories I can tell. I keep a tight lid on this because there will always be the temptation to pull the wool over another persons eyes. It's so... easy, and I will not deny I get a bit of a thrill over it. I NEVER have, nor will I ever use this skill though, to gain something at the loss of another. That is so morally wrong I could never, ever justify it.

As to my chart, well, it's everything. I have a gemini stellium in the 8th house. I have the charm and verbosity gemini to communicate to people in any way I want, and the depth to see within the undercurrents of what needs to be done. Having mercury there is a huge asset. Jupiter conjunct venus in the 8th makes it feel good to do that sort of thing. I have moon conjunct pluto in scorpio. I can see within the mind and emotions of other. Further, I can detect other liars very, very easily. That skill is so needed in order to know how to tiptoe around others. I have a libra rising, so I naturally put off the air that I am pleasent, even keeled, and not the least bit devious. I have a badly afflicted neptune, so I will always be struggling to nail everything down to reality (unpinned neptune stuff makes me freak out), so I am good at tying up loose ends, and knowing which details to leave misty. It's also in the 3rd house so I am quick and adept.


So yeah, when I say all of this it makes me sound like a sociopath and many of you likely will subconsciously never trust me again. So what though? It is what it is. At the end of the day, I use all of this for good, and to help others. This really is the tip of the iceberg with all of this, so I can't get into other parts that help me out with this. Either way, my chart really has pretty much everything you can think of that would lead to a con or cheater, and making one good at it.


Image of my chart: http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9254/astro22.jpg

The presence or absence of configurations doesn't guarantee anything. Just because one has the potential to behave in certain ways doesn't mean that one will. We do have free choice, after all. There are some factors that increase the likelihood that an individual will face the temptation to be deceptive at some point.

• Neptune and Pisces can be deceptive, though Pisces would need to be terribly afflicted to choose to do so.
• Gemini can tell an almost constant string of little fibs although the sign in general lacks the kind of depth that makes perseverance and deep intuition likely--those are Scorpio qualities.
• Scorpio will lie or withhold information about anything they don't want others to know. Scorpio is the most secretive of the signs, potentially capable of maintaining deception forever. Someone with strong Scorpio placements may also be trusted to keep secrets or maintain confidentiality for others.
• Fire signs are prone to exaggeration.
• Moon square Neptune can indicate gullibility and may also indicate self-deception. Those who believe a lie are likely to spread it to others.
• Sun parallel Venus can mark a powerful desire to portray things as better, more beautiful or more likely than may really be the case.
• Mercury conjunct Venus can also indicate a desire to represent oneself, others, circumstances, etc., in a more favourable light than may be justified.
• Mars square Neptune gives considerable energy to the capacity for delusion.
• Uranus square Neptune is often an indicator of mental or emotional disturbance; reality becomes fogged and prone to sudden, unexpected upheaval.
• Pluto opposite Mars intensifies dramatically the will to power. Depending on other factors, this may be handled well or badly.
• Jupiter conjunct, sextile, trine or in opposition to Pluto will expand that planet's capacity, for good or ill.
• Jupiter will also expand Uranus' potential for chaos and Neptune's illusions/delusions.
• The quindecile aspect (165°) indicates compulsion and obsession, which can be factors in dishonesty. Quindeciles between Pluto and other planets indicate an obsessive, relentless motivation toward empowerment or destruction. A quindecile involving Saturn may point to obsessive determination to control or to achieve.
• Neptune conjunct the Asc indicates that the individual is not what they appear to be.
• Hard aspects to the Uranus/Pluto midpoint may indicate upheaval, reversal or change.
• Hard aspects to the Jupiter/Pluto midpoint indicate gain or success, whether for good or ill.

Peregrine_Moon said:

• Fire signs are prone to exaggeration.
• Pluto opposite Mars intensifies dramatically the will to power. Depending on other factors, this may be handled well or badly.
• Neptune conjunct the Asc indicates that the individual is not what they appear to be.

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I have these 3 factors.

A certain someone pointed out that the 4th one doesn't apply and that I possibly read it incorrectly (which is what I did).

Thank you anonymous benefactor.

Zonark said:

I have these 4 factors.

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Okay. What is your experience with them? Everyone is tempted to deceive sometimes. What would you say about yourself?

Re: Me

tautomer said:

My chart. Lol.

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Fantastic! I love the connections & really it does give some insight to the idea I was searching!

Thank You Peregrine Moon, that was a lovely summarisation of what I was looking for.

Peregrine_Moon said:

Okay. What is your experience with them? Everyone is tempted to deceive sometimes. What would you say about yourself?

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Probably a bit too much but;

Well I have Sun and Venus in Leo. Venus is oriental to the Sun. Potential to charm people but probably hampered by my Virgo Mercury's critical incisiveness.

Neptune conjunct Ascendant (both in Capricorn) gives me what I'd call the appearance of an honest liar. Hard to read. I always catch people giving me this confused/unsure look. I managed to get out of being searched by a police officer who pulled my friend over with me in the car by asking him to turn his lights off because I had epilepsy and was worried about having a seizure and he immediately let me go and didn't ticket my friend. He had absolutely no reason to pull me out of the car other than thinking I looked suspicious, so it's a good illustration of the kind of Catch 22 Neptune conjunct Ascendant can cause. I've learned that I have to take a very active role in relationships where I want to be genuine with someone lest I run the risk of becoming the mirror for someone else's projections. This is one I have to work hard at making sure it doesn't harm me because it blurs self boundaries. Have to assert myself more actively.

Mars/Pluto (in Taurus and Scorpio respectively) Those with it in their chart often are abuse victims as children, usually sexual and this is true for me. Childhood abuse can compel someone to turn manipulative as a defense mechanism or to regain a wounded sense of personal power. The thing with this aspect is it often gives the native an overabundance of emotions which have to be controlled and transformed due to their inherently unacceptable and damaging nature. It can give bloodlust, a love of conquest and tendency toward disgusting/perverted/violent trains of thought if left untamed. Most people will have a thought or two like that over the course of their life but such things can verge on obsessions for Mars opp Pluto. For example in my teen years I was really attracted to BDSM and this was part of the Mars/Pluto effect. Losing all sense of power and security at a young age awakens the unscrupulous, vicious, adrenaline based animalistic primal self in response to the life threatening situation and that can be a hard thing to 'put back'.

Mars opp Pluto is often found in the charts of soldiers, MMA fighters, rapists, criminal psychologists, tantric yogis, school shooters, assassins, forensic investigators, spies, murderers, provocative artists, suicide victims, that guy down the road who seemed really nice and no one could figure out why he snapped and went on a homicidal rampage, sexual deviants, traitors, revolutionaries, hackers, pirates, thieves, police, tyrants, dictators, scientists who cross moral boundaries in their research and all sorts of people like that.

Peregrine_Moon said:

• Neptune and Pisces can be deceptive, though Pisces would need to be terribly afflicted to choose to do so.
• Gemini can tell an almost constant string of little fibs although the sign in general lacks the kind of depth that makes perseverance and deep intuition likely--those are Scorpio qualities.
• Scorpio will lie or withhold information about anything they don't want others to know. Scorpio is the most secretive of the signs, potentially capable of maintaining deception forever. Someone with strong Scorpio placements may also be trusted to keep secrets or maintain confidentiality for others.
• Moon square Neptune can indicate gullibility and may also indicate self-deception. Those who believe a lie are likely to spread it to others.
• Sun parallel Venus can mark a powerful desire to portray things as better, more beautiful or more likely than may really be the case.
• Mercury conjunct Venus can also indicate a desire to represent oneself, others, circumstances, etc., in a more favourable light than may be justified.
• Jupiter will also expand Uranus' potential for chaos and Neptune's illusions/delusions.

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I had to look up my chart to see what i had on your list and it's pretty true. my neptune makes aspects to nearly every planet and it's either square or opposition. when i do "deceive" others, it's not because i set out to do it on purpose, it's really because i actually "believed" in the "lie" and passed it on (with my gemini stellium sun, mercury-venus in the 9th in the most convincing and philosophical way). i've gotten away with doing a lot of naughty things and it's mostly because i make others believe in that little lie, like i'm passing on one of my little secrets (scorpio uranus aspecting a lot of planets from the 2nd house) and people are baffled that i would share things with them when i actually didn't share anything that i didn't care about LOL
i'm sure having pisces moon square sagittarius neptune has a lot to do my gemini trickery.

one such mischief i'm guilty of as a teenager was participate in a contest with a friend as to who could steal the most expensive stuff from high end department stores. i won by default because i wasn't caught and he was LOL as a matter of fact, i was so convincing with my props and the "dreamy" picture i painted for everyone that i literally, slipped through the cracks. my friend however, (he has a lot of virgo placements) got BUSTED and i laughed about it. i'm not a malicious person so after i teased him, i sold the stuff that i stole back to the stores (more gemini trickery) and gave that money to my friend to help with his legal fees. do i have moral qualms about any of this or my other adventures? no, i just laugh about all that... but that's probably due to my jupiter sextile uranus and jupiter square neptune LOL

Zonark said:

Probably a bit too much but;


Mars/Pluto (in Taurus and Scorpio respectively) Those with it in their chart often are abuse victims as children, usually sexual and this is true for me. Childhood abuse can compel someone to turn manipulative as a defense mechanism or to regain a wounded sense of personal power. The thing with this aspect is it often gives the native an overabundance of emotions which have to be controlled and transformed due to their inherently unacceptable and damaging nature. It can give bloodlust, a love of conquest and tendency toward disgusting/perverted/violent trains of thought if left untamed. Most people will have a thought or two like that over the course of their life but such things can verge on obsessions for Mars opp Pluto. For example in my teen years I was really attracted to BDSM and this was part of the Mars/Pluto effect. Losing all sense of power and security at a young age awakens the unscrupulous, vicious, adrenaline based animalistic primal self in response to the life threatening situation and that can be a hard thing to 'put back'.

Mars opp Pluto is often found in the charts of soldiers, MMA fighters, rapists, criminal psychologists, tantric yogis, school shooters, assassins, forensic investigators, spies, murderers, provocative artists, suicide victims, that guy down the road who seemed really nice and no one could figure out why he snapped and went on a homicidal rampage, sexual deviants, traitors, revolutionaries, hackers, pirates, thieves, police, tyrants, dictators, scientists who cross moral boundaries in their research and all sorts of people like that.

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Across many files of people, I've consistently noticed that the hard aspects between Mars-Pluto more than anyone else can be ruthless, forceful, obsessed with having power and controlling people, having tendencies towards violence in getting revenge, criminal and antisocial behaviour, playing harmful mind games, torture, interest in BDSM etc. They definitely have it in them to cheat and play dirty if they choose to but it is always a choice!

It is interesting that you bring up criminal psychologists in this mix because all of them that I've personally met weren't much better than the criminals themselves. When I was working on my undergraduate psychology degree, I was a research associate for a criminal research project and I ended up meeting quite a few of them. They looked worn out and/or creepy, had a dead or angry look in their eyes and lacked empathy. It strikes me as odd because the other psychologists I've met have generally been compassionate and helpful. Police officers are supposed to be protecting the public but it seems many of them enjoy abusing their power over others and forcing people to submit to their orders. They often aren't even polite, listen adequately to people, or try to be fair/ reasonable because they know they won't get fired. There are countless stories of prison guards being abusive towards inmates currently and I'll never forget the results of Zimbardo's Stanford prison experiment. All of this makes me think that the people in these professions must of spent many previous lives as criminals so when they evolve just a little, they wind up dealing with criminals from the other side. However, that sadistic side is still there, they just got better at hiding it from people.

Peregrine_Moon said:

• Neptune and Pisces can be deceptive, though Pisces would need to be terribly afflicted to choose to do so.
• Gemini can tell an almost constant string of little fibs although the sign in general lacks the kind of depth that makes perseverance and deep intuition likely--those are Scorpio qualities.
• Mars square Neptune gives considerable energy to the capacity for delusion.
• Jupiter will also expand Uranus' potential for chaos and Neptune's illusions/delusions.
• Neptune conjunct the Asc indicates that the individual is not what they appear to be.

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Pisces sun and venus/mars, the latter two square neptune in the 1st and quincunx pluto.


I agree with the propensity toward delusion; mine generally relates to the physical self (1st house) with chronic and pronounced body dysmorphia.


I know Vista commented that mars square neptune can indicate cheaters in relationship, but I don't think this applies to me, as once committed I tend to be very loyal.

My moon is in gemini and while I very rarely lie unless it's "white" (I'll get to why in a minute), I can be a bit of a gossip, and have at times disclosed information people have shared in confidence when greater discretion should have been exercised. I will say that this has only been when they haven't stated explicitly that they wanted it kept secret, though arguably they shouldn't have had to, and I should have known (and did know) better. Sometimes my mouth runs faster than my mind and I just tend to find talking about people and people-related things very interesting, almost too interesting. I'm working harder these days on keeping private information and secrets "secret".

Now, why I don't like lying nowadays in spite of all of that **** in pisces and a gossipy gemini moon, is due to my sag stellium (jupiter conjunct uranus conjunct ascendant in sag and neptune in sag 1st). In interpersonal relationships I intensely value honesty and upfront behavior, however in the past I have had no issue lying endlessly to strangers for my own amusement and/or personal gain.

Which leads me to why I believe the Jupiter influence can also serve to impart the reverse of bluntly truthful when prominent and/or poorly aspected, instead making one a very skilled con-artist/swindler. Again, Jupiter is the strongest planet in my chart, in its dignity and on my sag ascendant, sextile mercury, opposing my moon and square my sun: Once upon a time I would lie to people and cheat them for my own amusement, to impress my friends, and to get things I wanted (or even didn't particularly want), i.e. outright stealing, making up convoluted stories that I would rope people into believing, creating mischief for mischief's sake, and selling people things that really weren't worth the money I'd take for them... And the worst part about that was the fact I felt zero guilt for it. I found it all amusing and was impressed with myself as long as I was impressing my friends, and I feel like this was my Jupiter influence at its most perverse, i.e. "it's all good as long as I'm having fun and laughing".

No, I don't do those things any more and have a much higher moral code in regards to them (though I did have strong morals about certain things even back then, always pertaining to those close to me). And yes, I do concede that I can't blame my planets for choices I willingly made. I simply feel that these astrological ingredients can serve to create the aforementioned in what was at the time (and in many ways still is ) an unevolved consciousness.

astro11 said:

Across many files of people, I've consistently noticed that the hard aspects between Mars-Pluto more than anyone else can be ruthless, forceful, obsessed with having power and controlling people, having tendencies towards violence in getting revenge, criminal and antisocial behaviour, playing harmful mind games, torture, interest in BDSM etc. They definitely have it in them to cheat and play dirty if they choose to but it is always a choice!

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Absolutely, the ones who end up making a moral choice tend to have to find a healthy outlet for the inherently dark energies of such aspects too so it doesn't turn into the kind of repression and dissociation which leads them to one day just 'snap'. The energies if not integrated make them act increasingly victimized by life until they suddenly retaliate.

Best outlets are ones where victories fought for can be won in a healthy yet challenging and strenuous manner. Mars-Pluto people crave challenge.

astro11 said:

Across many files of people, I've consistently noticed that the hard aspects between Mars-Pluto more than anyone else can be ruthless, forceful, obsessed with having power and controlling people, having tendencies towards violence in getting revenge, criminal and antisocial behaviour, playing harmful mind games, torture, interest in BDSM etc. They definitely have it in them to cheat and play dirty if they choose to but it is always a choice!

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I have noticed this as well. The best example I know of is my cousin. The poor thing really does have an extremely difficult chart. I feel bad for her. In some ways she has really worked with it and made a really good life for herself. In others... it's made her a terrible person. Me and her were very close (both being only children with divorced parents growing up) as little kids. Then a shift happened her late into highschool and she changed for the worst. I am not close with her at all anymore. She's crossed pretty much everyone in my family except for my grandfather, my mother, and I (largely because we bet she intuitively knows that we are ones she'd be unable to cross for different reasons).

The aspect that is the major culprit? Mars square Pluto exact. It forms a perfect T square though, with her moon exact oppose her mars and square her Pluto. She doesn't just follow and eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth, she follows dismembered body parts for a hair folicle. She's way over the top with a very bad grandosity complex. She's also now a drill instructor in the airforce (power obsession).

tautomer said:

She's also now a drill instructor in the airforce (power obsession).

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Wow! That definitely says something!

StillOne said:

Wow! That definitely says something!

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I know right? A drill instructor in the Chair Force. She must've been a pro at musical chairs as a kid.