Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placements

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
...Scorpio....
Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac :smile:

The image of the Scorpion is feminine, nocturnal, solid, terrestrial, creeping, servile, silent, fertile, poisonous, unchangeable, fierce, thievish, with many limbs, lying and of the west wind. It indicates inquiries, deception, lawsuits, fights and mysticism. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Scorpio are disproportioned and awkward, tricky, turbulent, base, covetous, lying, bitter because the Scorpion is stingy, competitive, powerful, with short head, delicate voice, round light green eyes, sharp nose, lower lip bent, coarse hair, dark, military commanders, generals, destroyers of property, thieves, murderers, traitors, burglars and haters of their own families. The front is weaker, but the back is robust.

Domicile of Mars, depression of Moon, it controls the reproductive organs, the muscular system, the urinary system, the lower gastrointestinal tract. It causes skin diseases on account of the rough skin and blindness on account of the sting. It is like-empowered with Capricorn, like-ascending with Gemini and like-engirding with Aries, and medium in both Hemispheres. It is autumnal, cold and dry for the north, and vernal, hot and moist for the south. Scorpio obeys Cancer for the north and commands it for the south. Scorpio controls Metagonitis, Mauritania, Gaetulia, Syria, Comangene and Cappadocia. The claws are rising up to the 7th degree, the head up to the 11th, the body and Antares up to the 19th, the back up to the 24th, and the sting up to the 30th.

The first 7° belong to Mars - embezzlements, dangers, travel
The next 4° belong to Venus - fortune, those who advance unexpectedly through others
The next 8° belong to Mercury - abiding, some become bankers and administrators
The next 5° belong to Jupiter - increase, advancement, inheritances
The final 6° belong to Saturn - necessity, constraint, infertile

Forehead - Mars and moderately Saturn
Body - Mars and moderately Jupiter
Joints - Saturn and moderately Venus
Sting - Mars and Mercury
M7 - Mars and the Moon



Such, then, are the observations of the effects of the stars as made by our predecessors. Let us now proceed with the seven-zone.

Bibliography:
Ludwich, A. (Ed.). (1877). Maximi et Ammonis carminum De actionum auspiciis reliquiae: accedunt Anecdota astrologica. BG Teubneri. Retrieved from
https://archive.org/details/maximietammonisc00ludw/page/n3
Manilius, & Goold, G. P. (1985). Astronomica. BG Teubner.
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html
Schmidt, R. The Astrological Record of the Early Greek Sages. Project Hindsight.
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

...Venus....
Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part II - Seven Stars :smile:


Venus completes 8 sidereal cycles and 5 synodic cycles with 8 years.
It has retreating arcs of 15 degrees for 40 days.
Venus is moistening and moderately heating, benefic, feminine and nocturnal. Phosphoros makes those born under her shapely, graceful, effeminate, with bright beautiful eyes, having excess of hot and moist when morning rising, and plump, luxurious, olive in complexion, having excess of moist when evening rising, and in general, admired, passionate, wealthy, gracious, outgoing and friendly. Venus controls desire, love, priesthood, public benefactors, wearing of golden crowns and ornaments, merriment, friendship, companionship, acquisition of additional property, buying maidens and ornaments, agreements on favorable terms, marriages, refined arts, pleasant sounds, music-making, sweet singing, beauty of form, painting, mixing of colours, embroidery, purple-dyeing, perfume making, inventors, the masters of crafts, working with gold and precious stones, haircutters, cleanliness, plays, the supervisors of markets, weights, measures, trades and shops, giving and receiving, laughter and rejoicing, order, aquatic animals, the livelihood of the mother, assistance from women, remarkable reputations, nourishment and pleasure, the olfactory system, the reproductive organs, the secondary sex characteristics, multi-coloured adornments, precious stones, golden colours and greasy tastes. It is chronocrator over youth up to the 22nd year.


Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I have Jupiter in Gemini, it's served me well!
I see details others ignore!
And I can sort out information well!
well done

by the way modernistic generalisation is tempting fun
but
unreliable
i.e.
not everyone with that aspect is the same :smile:
details:


Jupiter completes 6 sidereal cycles and 65 synodic cycles with 71 years.
It has retreating arcs of 10 degrees for 120 days.
Jupiter is heating and moderately moistening, benefic, masculine and diurnal. Phaethon makes those born under him light, of good colour, moderately curling hair, large eyes, tall, commanding respect, having excess of hot and moist when morning rising, and light, with lank hair, bald in the front and on the crown, with average stature, having excess of moist when evening rising, and in general, cooperating, distinguished, advising, truthful, beneficent, efficient and outgoing. Jupiter controls begetting of children, childbirth, faith, love, desire, alliance, knowledge, justice, friendship with great men, prosperity, payments, large gifts, abundance of profits, governments, honours, authority over temples, arbitration of disputes, brotherhood, fellowship, inheritances, adoption, fidelity, the livelihood of the father, confirmation of good things, deliverance from bad things, freedom, entrustments, treasures, stewardship, athleticism and zealotry, the reproductive system, the digestive system, the integumentary system, sacred objects, tin, brilliant colours and sweet tastes. It is chronocrator over early old age up to the 68th year.


Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf

The image of the Twins is masculine, diurnal, double-bodied, human, common, eloquent, semi-fertile, rising backwards, handsome, standing and of the east wind. It indicates disputes, affairs, eloquence, trade and mysticism. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Gemini are sensible, changeable, curious, articulate, prudent, public, mystical, temperate, with fine face, good complexion, large beautiful eyes, open nostrils, fine lips because the Twins are charming in conversation, exchanging, broad shoulders, white, educated, scholars, poetical, music lovers, declaimers, stewards, receivers of trusts, translators, merchants, judges of good and evil, sensible, astrologers and guardians of secret matters. The front is weaker, but the back is robust.

Domicile of Mercury, it controls the shoulders, arms and hands, the vestibular system, the gustatory system and the auditory system. It is tropical, like-ascending with Scorpio and like-engirding with Virgo, medium in both Hemispheres. It is summery, hot and dry for the north, and wintry, cold and moist for the south. Gemini commands Sagittarius for the north and obeys it for the south. Gemini controls Hyrcania, Armenia, Mantinea, Cyrenaica, Marmarica and Egypt. The feet are rising up to the 6th degree, the lower legs up to the 12th, the lower parts up to the 17th, the higher parts up to the 25th, and the heads, Castor and Pollux up to the 30th.

The first 6° belong to Mercury - stillness, obstructions, rest
The next 6° belong to Jupiter - good fortune, kind
The next 5° belong to Venus - bloom, beautiful, fortunate from unexpected things
The next 7° belong to Mars - powerful, regulative authority, advancing
The final 6° belong to Saturn - subordination, bonds, reduction of wealth



Such, then, are the observations of the effects of the stars as made by our predecessors.


Bibliography:
Ludwich, A. (Ed.). (1877). Maximi et Ammonis carminum De actionum auspiciis reliquiae: accedunt Anecdota astrologica. BG Teubneri. Retrieved from
https://archive.org/details/maximietammonisc00ludw/page/n3
Manilius, & Goold, G. P. (1985). Astronomica. BG Teubner.
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html
Schmidt, R. The Astrological Record of the Early Greek Sages. Project Hindsight.
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from
https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf




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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
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Originally
SIGN meant simply

"...a Sign of the SEASON...."

and
SIGNS were basically a Calender of the Seasons
which followed the Seasonal Path of the Sun on the Ecliptic :smile:

HISTORY OF THE ZODIAC
in-depth exploration of the origins of the Babylonian Zodiac
and its location in the ecliptic
reveals the division of the ecliptic into tropical astrological signs
was originally a derivation of Euctemon's tropical Calendar of Seasons (432 B.C.)
"...dividing the solar year into twelve equal months commencing with the vernal equinox,
in which each solar (tropical) month is named after one of each of the twelve signs..."
Dr. Robert Powell




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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*



There's a distinction between looking at the Chart as a whole
and looking at Topics.
Suppose the Chart Ruler is in 7th
that's Angular
and
assuming it is otherwise in good condition
you could conclude
that nearly all of what the Chart promises will be fulfilled
it's just a matter of determining when
- use Profections and Revolutions.


BUT suppose Chart Ruler is also Wealth Ruler
would you draw the same conclusion?
No
it's Angular in the Chart
but not to the Topic of Wealth
the 7th House would be Cadent to the 2nd House/Sign
and
in fact the Topic Ruler can't even "...see..." the House/Sign it rules
and so
is powerless to do anything, regardless of its condition :smile:

You can also view it as Public aka Angular)
semi-Private/semi-Public aka Succeedent
and Private aka Cadent.
Are all powerful men and women in the spotlight?
On stage? In the news?
No
then see where the Topic Ruler
in this instance the MC Ruler
is located.

Same for those who have wealth
of any kind
have you seen a modest person
only to discover much later
that they have a rather fair amount of wealth
to a lot of wealth?
source BobZemco

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
from a whole sign perspective.
Signs do have power
as declining Pisces has little power

while angular, especially rising or culminating Pisces has a lot of power
(as the ruler is benefic and controls a good house).



you have stated that declining Pisces has little power
whereas

rising or culminating Pisces has a lot of power
thus PROVING
that it is

ANGULARITY that is STRONG :smile:
not SIGN itself






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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Maybe. But consider the following:
If Leo is known as a beastial, solid and royal sign
then
is it not ''...stronger...''
than the changeable and mysterious Capricorn?

If you say it depends on the area
then that would apply for all astrology.
royal, bestial and solid do not equate to strong necessarily :smile:
CURRENTLY royals are figureheads
lacking real '...strength...'

bestial is independent of '....strength....'
and
'...solids...' are not necessarily '....strong...'
and so on ad infinitum
Q.E.D.

The rationale of the thread
is planetary placement in signs
Hellenistic and Medieval astrologers alike (Valens and Lilly for example)
all view Capricorn as indicative of lean people, hunchbacks and barren
not characteristic of the previous with the exception of barren.
They both have the same angularity, but different strength
because of their qualities, associated with their imagery.

A '....lean barren hunchback...' could be '....strong....'
Traditional astrologers consider angular houses as best
so
they also make a planet - the ruler more powerful - ''...accidentally...''.

exactly

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
.


Nechepso said there were 8 regions of power in the Chart.
Keywords are "...Willing..." aka ANGULAR
"....Hoping...." aka Succeedent
and
"....Receding...." aka Cadent


A PLANET will do whatever it will do

good
or
bad

IF in one of the 8 power regions :smile:

Planet's CONDITION WILL AFFECT ITS ABILITY to do whatever it will do.


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Osamenor

Staff member
Sun in Leo > all

Not in traditional astrology. Keep in mind that this is the traditional board. Only traditional astrology may be discussed here.

Sun in Leo has essential dignity by sign, yes, but that gives it the same weight as Moon in Cancer, Mercury in Gemini or Virgo, Venus in Taurus or Libra, Mars in Aries or Scorpio, Jupiter in Sagittarius or Pisces, and Saturn in Capricorn or Aquarius. No more and no less. Sun also has essential dignity, by sign, in Aries, Moon in Taurus, Venus in Pisces, Mars in Capricorn, Saturn in Libra, and Jupiter in Cancer, because those are their exaltation signs: an important consideration in traditional astrology.

And then we have house placement to consider. If that Sun in Leo is tucked away in a cadent house, it's not as strong as if it's in an angular house, or even a succedent house.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Sun in Leo > all

Not in traditional astrology.

Keep in mind that this is the traditional board.
Only traditional astrology may be discussed here.

Sun in Leo has essential dignity by sign, yes, but
that gives it the same weight as Moon in Cancer, Mercury in Gemini or Virgo, Venus in Taurus or Libra,
Mars in Aries or Scorpio, Jupiter in Sagittarius or Pisces, and Saturn in Capricorn or Aquarius.
No more and no less.
Sun also has essential dignity, by sign, in Aries, Moon in Taurus, Venus in Pisces, Mars in Capricorn,
Saturn in Libra, and Jupiter in Cancer, because those are their exaltation signs:
an important consideration in traditional astrology.
And then we have house placement to consider.

If that Sun in Leo is tucked away in a cadent house, it's not as strong

as if it's in an angular house, or

even a succedent house.
Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac :smile:


The image of the Lion is masculine, diurnal, solid, terrestrial, quadrupedal, feral, royal, vocal, semi-infertile, passionate, fierce, running and of the north wind. It indicates action, reputation, superiors, harsh matters and quarrels. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Leo are large, distinguished, independent, reliable, just, despising flattery, haughty, irascible, daring, with fine face, smooth, small ears because the Lion rarely listens to the talk of others, higher upper part of the body, thin-set teeth, rugged, flushy, bright, imperious, stable, haters of evil, beneficent and inflated with lofty thoughts. The front is robust, but the back is weaker.

Domicile of Sun, it controls the sides, the circulatory system, the nervous system and the eyesight, especially the right eye. It causes blindness on account of the Coma Star Cluster. It is like-empowered with Aries and like-ascending with Virgo, tall in the Northern Hemisphere and short in the Southern Hemisphere. It is summery, hot and dry for the north, and wintry, cold and moist for the south. Leo commands Libra for the north and obeys it for the south. Leo controls Italy, Gaul, Apulia, Phoenicia, Chaldaea and Orchenia. The head and Regulus are rising up to the 6th degree, the front up to the 11th, the belly up to the 18th, the back up to the 24th, and the tail up to the 30th.

The first 6° belong to Jupiter - elevation, friendships with superiors
The next 5° belong to Venus - good fortune, friendships with superiors
The next 7° belong to Saturn - magnitude, of many years, infertile
The next 6° belong to Mercury - intelligent, some are winners of games
The final 6° belong to Mars - misfortune, dangers, passionate

Head - Saturn and moderately Mars
Throat - Saturn and moderately Mercury
Regulus - Jupiter and Mars
Hip and Denebola - Saturn and Venus
Thighs - Venus and moderately Mercury


Such, then, are the observations of the effects of the stars as made by our predecessors.

Bibliography:
Ludwich, A. (Ed.). (1877). Maximi et Ammonis carminum De actionum auspiciis reliquiae: accedunt Anecdota astrologica. BG Teubneri. Retrieved from
https://archive.org/details/maximietammonisc00ludw/page/n3
Manilius, & Goold, G. P. (1985). Astronomica. BG Teubner.
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html
Schmidt, R. The Astrological Record of the Early Greek Sages. Project Hindsight.
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf
 

kimiko8

Well-known member
What will a “weak” planet in a “strong” position do? Eg Mars in Cancer but conjunct the Asc (to a very strong degree) or Moon in Capricorn conj Desc?
Will they be powerfully weak? Asking out of curiosity as well as personal interest, as I have powerfully weak placements! (Lol)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
What will a “weak” planet in a “strong” position do?
Eg Mars in Cancer but conjunct the Asc (to a very strong degree)
or Moon in Capricorn conj Desc?
Will they be powerfully weak?

Asking out of curiosity as well as personal interest, as
I have powerfully weak placements! (Lol)
These planets are POWERFULLY PLACED
but in a weakened state

i.e.

Mars is HOT and DRY and masculine
Mars is burning and drying, malefic, masculine
and is therefore
weakened in feminine watery Cancer
Mars is a very masculine planet
It signifies war, violence.
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/planets.html


CANCER indicates water and celebrations.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121654


Moon's nature is COLD & WET and feminine
Moon is moistening

MARS heat creates disturbance and anger
and the dryness creates distinctions by which ideologies can further animosities
and keep opposites apart.
MARS' nature is to SEPARATE & SEVER

The image of the Goat-Horned One aka CAPRICORN indicates ACCUSATIONS, SEPARATIONS
but
MOON’s nature is to GATHER AND INCLUDE
clearly then
Capricorn Moon on Descendant opposing Cancer Mars
is a Moon-Mars opposition of considerable conflict

and

Angular Houses = 1,4,7,10
If a planet is in an angular Whole Sign house
then the planet is in a place conducive to the conduct of its business.

thus
both Moon & Mars are strongly PLACED angularly
and therefore are able to conduct their business
and
their business is in opposition to each other!
i.e.
Mars separates and severs
Moon gathers and includes

HOWEVER

there IS reception by exaltation and domicile
because
Moon is in Mars exaltation, Capricorn
and
Mars is in Moon's Domicile, Cancer
and so

Moon and Mars
ARE "...allowing..." each other
temporary residence in each others homes
thus there IS THEORETICALLY POTENTIAL for finding ways
to separate and sever
while gathering and including
if and when possible!


Robert Schmidt project Hindsight http://www.projecthindsight.com/

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tsmall

Premium Member
All, I deleted a post that was not about traditional astrology. Please remember the board you are posting to before replying.

Tamara
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*




ANGULARITY PROVIDES STRENGTH - not Sign :smile:



angularity-02.jpg
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
No sign is intrinsically strong or weak.
It is made so by the planets in it (or the lack thereof,)
and by its position amidst the house cusps.


Just for example, as the mutable water sign, we might see Pisces as "...weak..."
but if someone has Pisces in the 10th house with the MC, sun and Jupiter (domiciled) there
with Jupiter trining the (domiciled) moon in Cancer,
Mr. Pisces has a lot of strength in this situation.
Much more so than the sun intercepted in Scorpio (fixed water) in the 12th house.


You get the picture.
There is no such thing as a weak sign.

There are weak placements, but no weak signs.

Signs are neutral.
They have descriptions, sure
like human, mute, violent, bestial, fertile, barren
crooked, long ascending, and on and on,
but at the end of the day, the signs are neutral.

It's the planets both in and that rule them that bring them to life.
Hi

There are No weak sun signs.

To say there is, it is belittling astrology.


There are natal charts that indicate a weak personality.

Charts lack of hard aspects,
(especially from saturn to personal planets)
with full of trines and sextiles may point to a weak person.

when there are tough transits, they easily feel depressed and they become paralyzed and Can't cope with problems.
Because,they are not familiar to that kind of stressful energy.
"there is no such thing as a weak sign"
keep in mind the table of ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES :smile:


dignities-essential-ptolemic-lilly-table2.gif






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