Is he a mafioso murderer?

tikana

tikana

Well-known member
Osamenor said:
And speaking as a moderator: this thread is teetering on the edge of breaking several rules. First of all, rudeness and attacking are NOT allowed; respect of other posters is REQUIRED at all times. There have been some borderline rude responses to people who have reasonably pointed out the problems with using horary for this kind of question.

Furthermore, posting other people's natal charts IS allowed if ONE of the following is true: you have their explicit permission to do so (which the OP doesn't appear to) OR you remove their name and birth information from the chart and do not share any identifying details. Since the natal chart posted has been anonymized, and no clearly identifying details have been shared, it meets the forum rules on that count. However, this is the horary section. Natal charts are NOT to be posted here unless there's a clear connection being made between a natal chart and the horary.

And that says nothing about the ethics of posting someone else's natal chart. It's not fair to ask astrological questions about someone who's not participating in the conversation and has not consented to having questions asked about them. Furthermore, interpreting a birth chart is quite subjective. Every bit of it has multiple possible manifestations, only some of which will be true of the native. It's impossible to determine which of the many possible manifestations apply without the native present to affirm or contradict. And the chart does NOT show what choices the native has made in their life. Whether this person has a criminal career or just a very secretive but perfectly legal one, the astrological markers would be the same.
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Osamenor
I have a few griefs over the question.
1. if the querent is not in direct danger from the quested, querent is not minding her own business (later asce usually yields mind your own business) Primary why I do not wanna answer the question I dont know the intent or how will the answers be used. Plus this is 2nd question from the querent about mafia/murder connection. Makes you really wonder what is going on.
2. as you pointed out, natal chart does not "make" a person do this or that.
3. natal chart was posted but it was deleted (I think you guys took it down - good) .. no permission do not post the chart
4. If there is nothing you can personally affect a situation, dont ask. (i am not talking about you just saying in general. Lets say he is a mafioso murderer - then what?
tik
 
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lux111

Well-known member
tikana said:
Osamenor
I have a few griefs over the question.
1. if the querent is not in direct danger from the quested, querent is not minding her own business (later asce usually yields mind your own business) Primary why I do not wanna answer the question I dont know the intent or how will the answers be used. Plus this is 2nd question from the querent about mafia/murder connection. Makes you really wonder what is going on.
2. as you pointed out, natal chart does not "make" a person do this or that.
3. natal chart was posted but it was deleted (I think you guys took it down - good) .. no permission do not post the chart
4. If there is nothing you can personally affect a situation, dont ask. (i am not talking about you just saying in general. Lets say he is a mafioso murderer - then what?
tik
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Did you read the moderator’s post? Ad hominem attacks are not appropriate. Comment on the chart or refrain from posting. Thanks
 
Cypocryphy

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
tikana said:
i was talking to Osamenor not to you.
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If you indirectly talk about the OP, as you have, discussing her actions and imposing your creed upon her in a critical manner, then that is borderline ad hominem and might as well consider it as so. No one likes a knock on the door by an person pontificating that her “religion” or belief system is the correct one.

This is a valid question. Elena answered it very well. :smile:

A friends father who may be a malignant cancer on society is very suitable to such a question as querent might have concerns for herself, her friend or both.

With that being said, take anything useful as a possibility. However, Elena is very good. :smile:

As a side note, the most active house contains :saturn: and the Dragon’s Tail (among others like Pluto) is his 8th house of death. His planetary ruler is in that house, anoretic and in the bounds of :saturn:, exalted by :mars: in the 6th house of sickness, in the sign of :scorpio:, associated with secrets and death. I’ll leave it at that.
 
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tikana

tikana

Well-known member
Cypocryphy said:
If you indirectly talk about the OP, as you have, discussing her actions and imposing your creed upon her in a critical manner, then that is borderline ad hominem and might as well consider it as so. No one likes a knock on the door by an person pontificating that her “religion” or belief system is the correct one.

This is a valid question. Elena answered it very well. :smile:

A friends father who may be a malignant cancer on society is very suitable to such a question as querent might have concerns for herself, her friend or both.

With that being said, take anything useful as a possibility. However, Elena is very good. :smile:

As a side note, the most active house contains :saturn: and the Dragon’s Tail (among others like Pluto) is his 8th house of death. His planetary ruler is in that house, anoretic and in the bounds of :saturn:, exalted by :mars: in the 6th house of sickness, in the sign of :scorpio:, associated with secrets and
death. I’ll leave it at that.
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If you want to find a wishful answer, you can, especially with horary.
I read it as rumor true or not.
Asce late - trivial question.
Lord of 3rd merc lord of rumor debilitated - answer is
Mars (lord asce and 8th)sextiled saturn 8th house - could be breaking into private property (cars)theft (i am stretching imagination on this).

Venus is on the 4th cusp.. Quite beneficial planet on the cusp. Then you look at mars which rules the q. Mars and saturn in sextile. He is well disposed to her. IMO no murder. Saturn is dignified in cadent house. I am not looking to see what he is up to but is the theory valid.

I have to agree with Zora on this.
Nothing much i can add to what you wrote in 1st half.
As far as "creeding", she is hanging with "mafiosi" family, not my fault for her choices. This is 2nd chart on mafia related from her.
 
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lux111

Well-known member
tikana said:
If you want to find a wishful answer, you can, especially with horary.
I read it as rumor true or not.
Asce late - trivial question.
Lord of 3rd merc lord of rumor debilitated - answer is
Mars (lord asce and 8th)sextiled saturn 8th house - could be breaking into private property (cars)theft (i am stretching imagination on this).

Venus is on the 4th cusp.. Quite beneficial planet on the cusp. Then you look at mars which rules the q. Mars and saturn in sextile. He is well disposed to her. IMO no murder. Saturn is dignified in cadent house. I am not looking to see what he is up to but is the theory valid.

I have to agree with Zora on this.
Nothing much i can add to what you wrote in 1st half.
As far as "creeding", she is hanging with "mafiosi" family, not my fault for her choices. This is 2nd chart on mafia related from her.
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Why do you try and read everything as rumour true or not. This isn’t something anybody has spoken about. Can you please stop with the personal judgements and attacks tikana you have no idea what the situation is and no one has suggested anything is “your fault”
 
tikana

tikana

Well-known member
lux111 said:
Why do you try and read everything as rumour true or not. This isn’t something anybody has spoken about. Can you please stop with the personal judgements and attacks tikana you have no idea what the situation is and no one has suggested anything is “your fault”
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You question is "is he a mafiosi murderer?"
True - yes false - no
You think he is, you thinking that is 3rd house.

You didn't ask "did he kill anyone?"
That's when you look for aspects from 10 to a planet.

"Why do you try and read everything as rumour true or not"
Now, thats a blatant lie. I m not bowing to your #mafiosi-murder-spree-yes horary movement.
 
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lux111

Well-known member
tikana said:
You question is "is he a mafiosi murderer?"
True - yes false - no
You think he is, you thinking that is 3rd house.

You didn't ask "did he kill anyone?"
That's when you look for aspects from 10 to a planet.

"Why do you try and read everything as rumour true or not"
Now, thats a blatant lie. I m not bowing to your #mafiosi-murder-spree-yes horary movement.
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Well I’m really not clear on what qualifies as a ‘rumour true or not’ question, because couldn’t every question like ‘is my boyfriend faithful’, ‘is my mother lying’, ‘is my neighbour the thief’ etc be ‘is the rumour true...’ questions? If you word it slightly differently and say ‘has he killed anyone for money’ isn’t it still the same question except using past tense.. ?
 
tikana

tikana

Well-known member
lux111 said:
Well I’m really not clear on what qualifies as a ‘rumour true or not’ question, because couldn’t every question like ‘is my boyfriend faithful’, ‘is my mother lying’, ‘is my neighbour the thief’ etc be ‘is the rumour true...’ questions? If you word it slightly differently and say ‘has he killed anyone for money’ isn’t it still the same question except using past tense.. ?
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No.
Did he kill anyone for money would put the quested as asce and past aspect to 7 with interest to 8
A. You are not involved
B. Keep the picture clean
C. We can actually time this past event

My bf faithful is easy. Ruler void - no one involved
Planet in its own house - he is faithful
Ruler of his 7th in ur house in ypur sign he is faithful

Mother lying - ill digified - ill aspected to ur asce ruler, or in 12th

Rumor does not mean "tabloid" rumor
In Christian astrology chapter is called is the rumor true lilly covers news and etc

Lets say, is my friend loyal thats 11th house he has this chart.
He also has ill dispoised thieves chart and description in 7th house.

You can ask did x kill so and so for money. I try to stay away "suspicious" questions. More focused u keep charts, you get clear answers.
If theres a planet in 1st house aspecting 7 and planet is not ur ruler. Most likely the 7th house person was killed and querent knew about it. Murder for hire would be ideally ruler of 6th house aspecting 7th.

For example, i asked a q concerning an accident that happend 30+ years ago. The theories are still alive and a lot of questions are still out there.
I asked "is the theory correct?" to me, it made no sense - 0%. Sadly things happen.
I didnt come up with this version but phd scientist did. He wasn't the only one. It didnt truly agree with anyone. He thinks he is right.
I didnt question his credentials / dignity but i question validity of the theory.
Rumor true or not answered it. It was false. I asked someone who knew about this on youtube. He said he heard of the theory but it fails on many levels. Outcome is false.
 
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kalinka

Well-known member
This is my point of view... The question: Is he a murderer? is the same as: Did he killed someone?
If he is a murderer (which implies that he has killed someone in the past), the chart could also show when he commited a murder. It is the same as if someone asked: Does the father of my friend have a personality disorder? Or does the wife of my boss cheated on him?...All these questions could be suspicious...and the querent could ask only for curiosity. Then actually we do not include the querent as Asc while judging the chart. We only turn the chart to the quesited house. It doesn't matter if the question is suspicious or not. Most of these questions are "suspicious" because the querents got some informations, which lead them to ask. And these questions are still not be answered only by looking at the third....
I had this problem when querents asked me: Does my ex is in love/or is involved with someone new? First I thought I should include the querent in this question, represented by the moon and the asc...so another new person should not be signified by the 7th of the 7th...later I experienced that this is not always the case and the querent is only represented by the moon. Because the querent is not included in the question, they are not represented in the chart (or at least only by the moon)...and because the 7th of the 7th represents his/her (new)relationship. In vedic horary it is the same method. If the querent don't include themself in the question, then the asc is not automatically them, only the moon. However when the quesited ruler is not signified by the 7th, it is easy to use the asc for the querent but in questions, where the quesited is the 7th and someone else related to the question signifies also their 7th, then we sometimes have a problem.
Osamenor's opinion is that it is not seen in a natal if someone is a murderer. I don't agree. Both horary and natal show the answer. The astrologer could check the horary chart. Also when he commited murder could be lying in the chart. If there are indications for a Yes, then the astrologer study the natal. If both charts showing a correlation and traits for a murderer points up, then we could check the transits if they match with the time given by the horary chart.
 
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tikana

tikana

Well-known member
kalinka said:
This is my point of view... The question: Is he a murderer? is the same as: Did he killed someone?
If he is a murderer (which implies that he has killed someone in the past), the chart could also show when he commited a murder. It is the same as if someone asked: Does the father of my friend have a personality disorder? Or does the wife of my boss cheated on him?...All these questions could be suspicious...and the querent could ask only for curiosity. Then actually we do not include the querent as Asc while judging the chart. We only turn the chart to the quesited house. It doesn't matter if the question is suspicious or not. Most of these questions are "suspicious" because the querents got some informations, which lead them to ask. And these questions are still not be answered only by looking at the third....
I had this problem when querents asked me: Does my ex is in love/or is involved with someone new? First I thought I should include the querent in this question, represented by the moon and the asc...so another new person should not be signified by the 7th of the 7th...later I experienced that this is not always the case and the querent is only represented by the moon. Because the querent is not included in the question, they are not represented in the chart (or at least only by the moon)...and because the 7th of the 7th represents his/her (new)relationship. In vedic horary it is the same method. If the querent don't include themself in the question, then the asc is not automatically them, only the moon. However when the quesited ruler is not signified by the 7th, it is easy to use the asc for the querent but in questions, where the quesited is the 7th and someone else related to the question signifies also their 7th, then we sometimes have a problem.
Osamenor's opinion is that it is not seen in a natal if someone is a murderer. I don't agree. Both horary and natal show the answer. The astrologer could check the horary chart. Also when he commited murder could be lying in the chart. If there are indications for a Yes, then the astrologer study the natal. If both charts showing a correlation and traits for a murderer points up, then we could check the transits if they match with the time given by the horary chart.
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Nativity should point to a murder, Kalinka. I agree with you there.
Have you seen this?
https://artnunymiss.wordpress.com/2017/09/24/crime-horary-answer/
 
Cypocryphy

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
lux111 said:
Why do you try and read everything as rumour true or not. This isn’t something anybody has spoken about. Can you please stop with the personal judgements and attacks tikana you have no idea what the situation is and no one has suggested anything is “your fault”
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As an additional aside, and maybe someone has touched on this, but with :mars: in the 6th, in the sign of the scorpion :scorpio: you are looking at someone in servitude, carrying out secret acts that are injurious or even deadly. What I mean is that if he’s associated with a mafia type organization, he is a servant in that organization. He is not in charge or has any leadership role. He has “masters.”

I don’t know if that resonates but that’s what it shows.
 
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ElenaJ

Well-known member
lux111 said:
https://imgur.com/DUHsxV8

This is a man I know, around 65ish years of age

Asc is in a late degree (27th) so I think that may show he has been in the past, but doesn’t do it anymore

I have posted the chart in Regiomontanus and whole signs. If I read the whole-sign chart:

He is Venus, on the malefic 29th degree in Capricorn, conj. MC and Saturn, trining Algol in his 8th, in his 4th house of digging/underground/jobs. Venus also rules his 8th house of death and violence. His L10 of career, Moon, is in his H1. North node is in his L10.

Moon leaves a square with Jupiter and will next sextile Mercury, his L12, ruler of his secrets


I’m Mars in Domicile in Scorpio/8th — sign of the detective

This is a very 4th/10th graves/secret business etc-heavy chart yet I’m not sure
What do you think
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The original question is "Is he a mafioso murderer?".
The question was not, Did he commit a murder.
Just because the mafia is a terrible organisation and murder is an awful deed, I think doesn't change the placement of the significator.
Someone who works for the mafia, or carries out deeds whether murder or other, for the mafia, literally works for the mafia. They are an employer.
The question could be "Is he a delivery man for Amazon?". "Is he a baker in the restaurant?" etc.
It is a work question.
Our moral standards should not effect this.
 
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kalinka

Well-known member
If he is a murderer, then this implies that he already killed someone in the past. If he did never commited murder, then he is not a murderer. The horary chart tells the story. It would be different in a natal chart. But anyway, it does not matter if a murder is seen in the horary chart or not, it is showing if he is a murderer or not.
 
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kalinka

Well-known member
Just want to mention, we could judge the chart with different methods. In a sidereal Rashi Chart, the moon tells about her thinking. In KP, it would be a time chart, so here we could use the Asc for him...and the chart tells more than only the answer of the question.
 
tikana

tikana

Well-known member
kalinka said:
Just want to mention, we could judge the chart with different methods. In a sidereal Rashi Chart, the moon tells about her thinking. In KP, it would be a time chart, so here we could use the Asc for him...and the chart tells more than only the answer of the question.
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I think if we match his physical appearance to a planet, we will have our ascendant.. otherwise we will be running in circles
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
lux111 said:
About 5’6, overweight, unkempt grey hair, grey facial hair, scary face..?
60 years old, Scorpio
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applies to vast numbers of people worldwide :smile:
in any event privacy issues are involved with providing
physical description of a person who has not agreed to that
 
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tikana

tikana

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
applies to vast numbers of people worldwide :smile:
in any event privacy issues are involved with providing
physical description of a person who has not agreed to that
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JA,
your argument is invalid here because we are trying to find what a person looks like to match a planet that he should be represented
 
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